Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 08:30:03 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #413 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Billing Co, Injuries (Charles Veuleman) 2. Re: Billing companies (DrgnSlyr5@aol.com) 3. Video testing (Rudy Timmerman) 4. RE: Conditioning Stuff (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 5. RE: Ft Wayne or Bust (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 6. RE>ki cho hyung (MW) 7. common injury (Chris Hamilton EZ Lock) 8. RE: While doing some research... (ISA CONSULTATION GROUP) 9. RE:Got dem ol' KMAIA Blues (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 10. RE:Rank Opportunity (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 11. Korean Karate (Farral, Kim) 12. RE: Common Injury? (Woodard Brian (ChW/TEF8)) 13. Re: RE:Rank Opportunity (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 19:09:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Veuleman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Billing Co, Injuries Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On the matter of billing companies. There are obviously good sides and bad sides. If you do not have an Empire of like 200 or more students, there are other options that can be better. Since you are under 100 right now, you might just want to turn collections over to one of your trusted high ranking color belt adults, especially if you have someone that you can imagine having their own school one day, this could be valuble training for them. Make sure everything is professionally recorded and receipts are given, and that the student doing the work is there a large majority of the time to take payments, especially at the begining of a month/billing cycle. Once you hit 100, it may be time to reduce the workload of your slave to only cash payments and merchindise sales, and have your bank handle the rest. Most banks charge a very small fee (mine is 25 cents) for each account you have drafted. You get the account numbers and routing numbers, give um to your bank, and they do the rest. Sometimes this works, sometimes people are paraniod and don't like giving account numbers out. Of course work out options with students like this, or become a smooth talker ("Mrs Jones, don't worry about giving your account number to me, besides, you are such a good client I should have that account number memorized already anyway."...) After about 200, it can see it getting rediculous, so unless you have a 300 lb Italian named Guido that can "GET" payments no matter what, then call 1800karatebillingformybigfreakinkarateschoolthatkicksbutt. Congratulations on your sudden surge of new students. Is this happening everywhere? I have recently almost doubled my membership this summer, is It because I am bustin my chops or 9-11 and child abductions? Any opinions? --- On the injuries, geez guys, ya'll make me hurt just thinking about it. Take the uniform and belt off, look at your program, decide if it was an isolated event, or that this happens alot. Make your own Judgement call. Hope your instructor doesnt teach full contact swimming at the Natatorium. Yours in the martial arts Charlie Veuleman. ===== ------------------------------------- L. Charles Veuleman Natchitoches Karate Institute 204 Rapides Drive Natchitoches, LA 71457 318-356-7727 http://www.bluewavekarate.com ------------------------------------- --__--__-- Message: 2 From: DrgnSlyr5@aol.com Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 23:23:50 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Billing companies Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net We have used D & S Acceptance (smartestpay.com) for over seven years and are happy with their service. It greatly reduces the paperwork that must be done at the studio. Changes on our end can be made with a simple phone call. It also allows us to avoid negative exchanges with our students about overdue payments. We choose the level of followup or collections for delinquent accounts and they take care of it. The reports that accompany our checks make it easy to track payment history and monitor which accounts are coming up for renewal. I've heard others talk about unhappiness with their billing company, so I'd say you have to choose carefully, but I would definitely recommend using one. With a student base of 60-70, you won't believe how much time you'll save. Good luck! Sharon --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 23:38:38 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Video testing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Travis writes: > I have seen several well respected Masters and Grandmasters offer video > testing, certification and promotions from the negative feedback one would > believe that they were taking advantage of unsuspecting students. Hello Travis: Some people think that they can learn an entire art just be watching some videos, and most Masters will have a negative view on that. On the other hand, it is now much easier to get hold of some very sophisticated technology that might help a martial artist expand on his or her options. Video training, when combined with on the mat seminars and workshops, might be an excellent way for some students to expand on their present knowledge. I think it depends a great deal on how the material is presented in the tapes, and the average video sets available today does not actually TEACH the contents. Most tapes merely SHOW the viewer some techniques etc. IMHO, such video training CAN be presented in a much more detailed fashion than what is shown in the average video collections you can purchase. I have not seen the set that Master Terry mentioned, so I can't comment on that. My organization, National Korean Martial Arts Association, is presently exploring various options on long distance training for our members, and we DO use videos to help us out. However, this training is done by sending tapes back and forth to check on progress. It is not just a matter of sending you a few tapes, and leaving you on your own after you receive them. With postal costs these days this is not a cheap option, but it beats traveling hundreds of miles. IMHO, to be effective, video training is more likely to help someone who already has a good grasp of martial arts, and it also means there needs to be feedback. In addition, there should also be some hands on work on the mat. In conclusion, there should be an honest understanding between all parties that certification is only possible after the appropriate skills for the particular level have been attained and demonstrated. There is a well founded fear that video training goes hand in hand with the certificate mill practices that all legitimate martial artists abhor. Hope this sheds some light on MY perspective on this subject. Rudy --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 07:41:28 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Conditioning Stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Brooke: "..... This is a question for those of you that have been in the striking arts for some time. Last Sunday I was formally pre-testing for my blackbelt exam (our school has several 6A-1P pre-tests prior to the open-to-the-public formal show). After six hours of strenueous activity (running, all kicks, rolls, massive amounts of pushs-ups, etc.), it was time to spar our instructors. The theory here is that 'let's see what you have left after you have nothing left to give.' I understand why that is important because you never know when or how tired you may be when fighting for your life......" With no respect to your instructor, tell the moron to grow-up. Nobody, and I mean no serious martial artist, trains like that and expects a life-long commitment to their art. Muay Thai fighters have some of the most demanding training cycles known and their careers average between four and six years. Sure their badasses, but their all used up in less than a decade--- whats the point? When I go to seminars anymore there are folks ten years lighter than me that can't train due to knee injuries, shoulder injuries, back and neck injuries, pulled muscles, arthritis, bursitis and gawd knows what all else. And don't get me started on the recent breaking "championships" on ESPN. If your self-confidence is SO poor that you need to compete against other folks to see how many inanimate objects a person can break on national TV you have way more problems than MA is going to solve for you. A little while back Rudy wrote a very telling post here on the Digest and I think it would do you some good to go back and check that post out. His insights come from both years or training AND years of teaching and I think he would be the first to agree that extreme conditioning is not in the best interests of the art or the artists. For me, personally, I think that all that "massive amounts of push-ups" and "hours of strenuous activity" is what some folks do to fill-in when they find they really don't have that much to teach. Afterall, the student comes to the teacher looking to learn a particular skill set not to spend the evening doing sit-ups and jumping-jacks. One last thing and then I'll shut-up. I hear a lot on the MA Nets about "toughening" and it seems to be used a lot to excuse the kind of training that you're talking about. I always come back to that story about G. Gordon Liddy and the Candle and his comment that " the trick is not minding that it hurts." Want to prove how tough you are? Try confronting your employer about unethical behavior or asking for a raise. And when he lets you go, go home and convince your mortgage-strapped, hungry family that everything is going to be alright. There are thousands of families across the US that are doing that right now, and they don't need some jock in a do-bok to preach to them about how to keep going when they have nothing left. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 07:54:03 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Ft Wayne or Bust Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jere: "....Dr. Burkick! Glad to see you will make it to Ft. Wayne. I hope to see you in Jackson next March! Bruce, you have been quite and I assume you will attend....." Both weddings are now behind me and its time to get back into the groove. I'm making plans even as I write. Looking forward to it. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: 26 Aug 02 09:05:32 -0500 From: MW To: the_dojang Subject: [The_Dojang] RE>ki cho hyung Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I¥m looking for detailed description of the Ki cho Hyung/poomse Kuk Sool Won textbook #1 has the entire form (1-6) michael whalen KSW --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Chris Hamilton EZ Lock" To: Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 09:14:23 -0500 Organization: EZ Lock Incorporated Subject: [The_Dojang] common injury Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> Brooke, I think it is damn irresponsible for your instructor to injure you in such a manner. Either this guy has no regard for your safety and well being, or he has sloppy technique. I beleive in most styles that the mask area is an invalid target when sparring. In Han Mu Do sparring both kicks and hand strikes are allowed to the head, although they are only valid to the side or top. The mask area and the back of the head are off limits, and any contact that would result in broken bones would be deemed excessive and grounds for disqualification. I like to play rough too, but you have to have enough physical and MENTAL control to ensure that you don't seriously injure your sparring PARTNER. Like a wise person once said, "If you break all your toys, you won't have anything to play with". Chris H. Han Mu Do --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "ISA CONSULTATION GROUP" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 10:18:12 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: While doing some research... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In defense of Sensei Hoover, I suggest you read all of his BIO on his website. 25 years is a lot longer than you think. http://www.chiduce.swsites.net/about.html george http://hapkido.4dw.com/ http://leftbehind2001.tripod.com/index.html _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 09:29:47 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE:Got dem ol' KMAIA Blues Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray: ".....This information just in from Gm Song of Shihung City, South Korea. According to Gm Song... - There is no such organization in Shihung City. - Korean masters do not have to belong to the KMAIA to teach or open a school. - The KMAIA was created in the US. - GM Song was at one time Korean President of the KMAIA, but only as a figure-head to give a Korean identity to this US organization. - GM Song no longer has any connection w/the KMAIA......." See, now I am really pissed!! The bartender in that Shihung City bordello I wrote to swore to me that he was the sole secret representative of the KMAIA. He even agreed to give me the traditional KMAIA recognition sign for an extra $20 bucks (but who knows where that mouth had been). I suppose thats OK, though. Ever since our recent KMAIA discussion I have had a number of people approach me representing themselves as little-known, government-recognized KMAIA members including 4 members of the local Narcotics Anon group and the lady who does my dry-cleaning. I sure hope this all shakes-out OK. I am getting real nervous with all this money in my pocket and no organization to send it to in return for my weight in certificates. :-) Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 09:17:45 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE:Rank Opportunity Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Folks: Just came across a great notice at hapkidokarateseminar.com (sic) that announces that GM Ji will be doing another seminar in Carol Stream, Illinois in October 19th and 20th. The promoters seem to have worked out a special with the local Holiday Inn for a special price of only $79/night.( I'm half-tempted to offer my garage floor for half that cost but it does leave me wondering whatever happened to the seminars of old when folks ordered out for pizza, stayed up late talking MA and watching bad kung-fu flicks and crashed on the mat with their sleeping bags. ) I was sure I remembered someone saying that GM Ji was retiring from doing these dog-and-pony shows as of September last year. But the reason I raise the point is because after outlining the curriculum of 8 sessions priced on a sliding discount scale ("All Eight Sessions $275.00 Save $205.00!!!") there is the comment "Attend all 8 sessions anf receive a T-shirt and the possibility of being ranked by Grandmaster Ji!!!" Now I am guessing that GM Ji is not about to "rank" anybody for free so are we back to the old arguement of selling rank? Do you suppose if I let drop the idea that I have about 80 students, GM Ji might even let me jump a grade-- I mean if I offer to bring all my students into his economic fold and pay the specified honorarium? Most of the time we don't get to discuss such things until after the fact. I would like to hear peoples thoughts on this up-coming event and the possibility of purchasing your next rank from one of the best known Hapkido personalities. Some time back we raked Richard over the coals for some of his promotional stuff pretty good. I wonder if folks would like to take a hand at differentiating between this event and one of the NHA shindigs, or is it simply a matter or standing and name recognition? Does anyone see a Sin Mu Hapkido Home Study course in our future? Just some thoughts on a Monday morning. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Farral, Kim" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 10:21:42 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean Karate Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have to relay this truism of my Grand Master on the Korean Karate issue... When I transferred into his Dojang in 1980 I noticed it said Tae Kwon Do/Karate on the Huge sign across the front of the tiny building...this really confused me as I had been explicity told NEVER to confuse the two as one is Korean and one is Japanese and the two cultures do not get along... I asked other students and Black Belts why the karate was on the sign...no one really knew the answer...some speculated incorrectly... I found out the answer just this past March...22 years later... WHen Grand Master Jung first opened his Dojang in the early 70s...people would literally stop in at noon and ask what the special was for the day and what kind of food he served...Tae Kwon Do was relatively unknown at the time...Karate was well known as a martial art so Grand Master Jung added Karate to the sign so people would know it wasn't a restaurant... Took 22 years to find that out...I should have just asked Grand Master Jung to begin with.. I would not have had to wait so long for the answer...need ot follow my own advice...ASK QUESTIONS The One and Only "Tink" Kim G. Farral 5th Dan TKD ************************************ If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT. ************************************ --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Woodard Brian (ChW/TEF8)" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Common Injury? Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 11:21:59 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sounds like a 24 year old 2 Dan with a bad attitude and MINIMAL control, and definitely not what I would consider a quality instructor. Don't get me wrong, I feel that at black belt you should be challenged and be able to suck it up even when you don't think you have any left. Crushing your eye socket does not prepare you for your black belt!!! I definitely would question any school that would go full contact to the head/face without head gear!! Sounds like they are trying to keep you from getting your black belt as opposed to helping you prepare. Sounds like they are wide open for a lawsuit. I agree with Mr. Veuleman, take off the uniform and belt and take a long look at the school you are at. Brian Woodard -----Original Message----- From: Brooke Thomas [mailto:intv1@pacbell.net] Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 10:43 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Common Injury? This is a question for those of you that have been in the striking arts for some time. Last Sunday I was formally pre-testing for my blackbelt exam (our school has several 6A-1P pre-tests prior to the open-to-the-public formal show). After six hours of strenueous activity (running, all kicks, rolls, massive amounts of pushs-ups, etc.), it was time to spar our instructors. The theory here is that 'let's see what you have left after you have nothing left to give.' I understand why that is important because you never know when or how tired you may be when fighting for your life. In fighting the first instructor (24 yr old 2nd degree), I was surprised by how hard and fast he came out. He was also wearing the thinner finger-cut-out sparing gloves that look like weightlifting gloves that don't offer a lot of padding to the opponent. I took two solid over-hand rights to my left cheek-bone, the second one ended the sparing. Let me first state that I have always been one to enjoy contact...from sparing to grappling I have sought it out (through private lessons) when I thought we were doing too many forms. I am 42 yrs young, 6'5" and 230 lbs and can usually handle myself very well but hey, I was pretty tired. After the test, I thought the pain would start to subside, and it did (with a nice shiner too). The left side of my face became numb and the next day the numbness spread a little further from below my left eye to my left front lip and my left teeth. I went to see my Doctor who ordered an immediate CAT Scan where he determined I had a fractured Left Occipital Lobe with nerve damage resulting in Facial Anesthesia. He also said I may need surgery to install a plate and screws but he would make that evaluation in another two weeks to see if my eye started irregular movement. He also stated that if the nerve that desends from the Occipital Lobe down the face which feeds the left side of my face had becomed severed, it results in permenant numbness for life. My Doctor told me to take up swimming. It is now 5 days from the test and my numb face and I are writing this to the digest. First of all, have any of you taken a similar injury? How did you cope, what was the heal time, did you eventually return to training? If you did, did you wear custom head-gear from then on? How has that injury changed you? If you returned to training but opted never to spar again, how did that feel? Secondly, how common is this type injury in the studio? Have you ever seen this happen? Am I alone in the boat? Thank you in advance for your replies, Brooke Thomas Hapkido Blend _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE:Rank Opportunity To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 08:26:25 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Just came across a great notice at hapkidokarateseminar.com (sic) that > announces that GM Ji will be doing another seminar in Carol Stream, Illinois > in October 19th and 20th. The promoters seem to have worked out a special > with the local Holiday Inn for a special price of only $79/night.( I'm > half-tempted to offer my garage floor for half that cost but it does leave > me wondering whatever happened to the seminars of old when folks ordered out > for pizza, stayed up late talking MA and watching bad kung-fu flicks and > crashed on the mat with their sleeping bags. ) ??? Does $79 per night seem high to you? Bruce, I guess you don't get out much... On the pizza & flicks on the mat seminar, not sure I've ever been to one like that. But Kung-fu flicks??? Sounds like a 12-pack per would be needed to make that successful. :) > I was sure I remembered someone saying that GM Ji was retiring from doing > these dog-and-pony shows as of September last year. I think it was two years ago. However his personal/family situation has changed since then. Anyone that has gone through a separation/divorce knows of what I speak. > arguement of selling rank? Do you suppose if I let drop the idea that I have > about 80 students, GM Ji might even let me jump a grade-- I mean if I offer > to bring all my students into his economic fold and pay the specified > honorarium? Well, you'd have to be able to last more than one day, which we know you haven't been able to do in the past... :) Ray "Still Eating Rice" Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest