Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 15:43:06 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #420 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Selling rank (Piotr Bernat) 2. re: Mr. and Private (Gordon White (TKD)) 3. RE: Tim (Farral, Kim) 4. Re: Sword stuff (J T) 5. Tony Blauer (Ken McDonough) 6. RE: Thanks, Ali (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 7. Line up for the Gathering. (J T) 8. Re: Selling Rank (Divetony@aol.com) 9. RE: Mixing and Matching (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 10. Re: training journal? (Westport Academy Of Taekwondo) 11. Art "Haidong Gumdo" Internationalized (Ray Terry) 12. Re: chinese/japanese (JW) 13. Self defense classes (J T) 14. Re: TaeKwondo/Tangsoodo 2 distinct methods? (Beungood@aol.com) 15. Mr/Dr, & ancient Korean arts (Burdick, Dakin Robert) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Piotr Bernat To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 23:33:58 +0200 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Selling rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > "Correct me if I'm wrong but the ranking won't help you in a self > defense situation Well... if you have your certificate framed, and if you hit your opponent with it precisely to the head, then... who knows ;) Regards -- Piotr Bernat dantaekwondo@lublin.home.pl http://www.taekwondo.prv.pl --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Gordon White \(TKD\)" To: Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 08:49:55 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] re: Mr. and Private Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net === Russell MacLellan Wrote: "Mr. Chang Ung's claim in recent meetings with Mr. Un Yong Kim ..." === Gordon wrote: Actually, its Dr. Un Yong Kim...This is like calling General Choi "Private Choi". === Alain Burrese wrote: "Actually, no. Calling someone Mister rather than Doctor is nothing like calling someone Private rather than General." == In this situation, (we are talking about Taekwondo right?) the level of disrepect being shown is the same. You would never never refer to "general choi" as "private choi" because its disrepectful, (and its not his title) for the same reason Dr. Un Yong Kim is reffered to as Dr. not Mr. gordon - --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Farral, Kim" To: 'Dojang' Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 07:49:57 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Tim Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Tim...Welcome to the Dojang... As far as CORRECT pronunciation and terminology... you will fiind that like the United States...Korea has many dialects...so depending upon where the terminology is from or whom is translating it..it will have slightly different spellings and pronunciations...The best explanation I can give is that Korean..unlike English...is an alphabet of phoenetic sounds not distincitve letters...depending upon whom is interpreting the words or from what part of Korea the word is commonly used...the pronunciation and the speeling will vary...much like American English to UK English...then you have to throw in the American pronunciations of the same words which will vary depending upon whom you ask... However..there are a few good sites for what you are asking...jsut dont be surprised if you get two different answers for the same words...I have listed a few of the sites below...hope it helps... http://www.wkimtkd.com/Terminology2.htm http://www.ccsu.edu/karate/kor_2.html http://www.ahnstkd.com/korean.htm http://www.omaccanada.com/resources/korean.asp http://dic.impact.pe.kr/ecmaster-cgi/srch.cgi?bool=dic&word=yes&kwd=Hidden http://www.sigmainstitute.com/koreanonline/dictionary.shtml http://www.sigmainstitute.com/koreanonline/appearance.shtml http://www.cjk.org/cjk/samples/korname.htm#given Pil Seung! The One and Only "Tink" Kim G. Farral 5th Dan TKD ************************************ If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT. ************************************ --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 06:00:23 -0700 (PDT) From: J T To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Sword stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Perhaps some day we will get a chance to do some cutting. :) I just received my 2nd gup last month in Kumdo. I have my 1st gup test in October. Jeremy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 06:01:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken McDonough To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cc: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Tony Blauer Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray Terry, you asked about Tony Blauer: He is out of Montreal and I also have several of his tapes. He is very good with reality response scenarious and his concept called "Adrenaline Response and Dump". In other words, how you would react to attacks on the street. He is heavy into fear reactions, flinching, attack avoidance, and also going on the offensive. He does a lot of exercises with women being attacked and how they should respond. He employs his suits to enable live and real attack responses, e.g., groin and head shots. He created a very useful fighting armored suit employed by military and police tactical units. He integrated that with his SPEAR concepts on attacks. He appears to have a debate with other reality based martial artists (maybe Peyton Quinn ?) regarding who is stealing each other's ideas. He created his own system based on various martial arts and what he believes works in the streets. He has his own website. Several of his videos are highly rated. I liked his "How to beat a grappler" and the Four Ranges. Others are good, some are merely videos of his seminars where he discusses concepts. I think Tony Blauer and Professor James out of New York City offer a nice approach to urban street fighting techniques that provide an alternative theory to traditional Dojangs or Dojos. McD... P.S. I can write somewhat coherently now since I am off the booze. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 07:59:01 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Thanks, Ali Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Folks: A quick "Thanks, Ali" (sorta), for sharing the article from the PUSAN website. Nice to see that for every person who uses a broad brush to paint KMA history and traditions there are still people who use an eyebrow pencil. I was truely impressed by the careful choice of words, though. For instance, I thought the use of the phrase "...standardised after 1945..." was a particularly nice way of saying that Koreans started addressing their martial traditions more like the Japanese including rank, belts, certificates, and deferential behavior. I wonder if those folks back in Korea ever appreciated how lucky they were to have returning emigres, job-seekers and students from Japan finally show the traditionalists how martial traditions SHOULD be practiced. Lucky, lucky them. I also liked the reference to ".... Sahdoh Musul, which was tribal martial arts, Boolkyo Musul, which was Buddhist, and Koongjoong Musul, which was for the royal court. Recently these were combined to form Kuk Sool. Other combination martial arts are Tang Soo Do, which attempted to unite all martial arts under one name and Kong Shin Bup, which means empty body and open mind...." Maybe its just me but would someone like to provide me with references for this? Yes, I have read the historical notes in GM Suh, In Hyuks' book but I just don't seem to be able to find material which characterizes this neat little declension of martial development quite the way its laid out here. Maybe someone would like to provide some insight into the nature and organization of the "royal court" arts, or the "Buddhist" arts. These labels get invoked pretty regularly but does anyone actually know the true nature and content of these infusions to KMA, or are these just exotic terms that get mindlessly tossed around whenever this subject comes up? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 06:08:22 -0700 (PDT) From: J T To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Line up for the Gathering. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net GM Cyrus can tell you tell you the full event line up. Just so you know it will not be held in Downers Grove but somewhere near the Hiton O'hare since that is where they are booking the rooms for the overnight guests so it should be in your neck of the woods right? Here is a number you can call for more details: 916 988-6586 (at least that is the number that they have on the flyer. Jeremy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 09:24:27 -0400 From: Divetony@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Selling Rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I agree with you. I started a year ago (after a 17 year absence) to get back into it because I remember the good workout. The belt rank is not that important to me but I am focused on getting the elusive Black Belt that I would have received in my younger days if I had stuck with it. Of course at 42 the workouts can sometimes be grueling and being in class with people half my age or less can make me feel big and slow. Rising in rank is a personal accomplishment and self-rewarding. As important to me just like you are my kids. I have my 5 and 4 year old girls training for a number of reasons but we enjoy the family classes we can go to together. It's something fun for us to do together and has the health benefits, discipline etc to boot. It is also ingraining the importance of exercise in them which will stay with them there whole life. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 08:28:12 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Mixing and Matching Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Fred: ".....In hapkido, where is the Chinese influence? I can clearly see the Japanese flavor in the throwing techniques. I have never practiced Hapkido. I practice Tae Kwon Do, WTF...." If you are sincerely interested in pursuing the influence of Chinese arts on Hapkido it will help to start with your own art of TKD and reflect on the influence of Japanese Karate on the TKD hyung, and then, by extension to influence of Okinawan art on Karate and finally the role of Southern Chinese traditions on the Okinawan practices. John Sells book, UNANTE would be a great help here. Once you have that down, the next step is to begin to examine the respective biomechanics of a particular technique in the catalogue of Japanese techniques, specifically Daito-ryu Aiki-jujutsu, as the compared to the execution of the same technique in the Chin Na techniques of the five most influential Chinese arts including TAM TUI, LONG FIST, PRAYING MANTIS, TAI CHI, and BA QUA CHANG. Take a standard technique such as an Elbow-lock technique and consider the preparatory moves, posture including stance width and length, hand position and use, elbow position and control, the context of the technique internal or external execution (SEE: Yang, Gewus' book), and grow from there. Your second question is quite a bit harder. By themselves it is not easy to paint the diferences between Chinese and Japanese influences as Black&White. However, it becomes even more difficult when one is asking about what is essentially shadings of the same color as in comparing KUK SOOL and HWARANGDO. This is particularly hard when the person asking does not have training or experience as a foundation for discussion. Thats not a dig, just a statement of fact. I am sure you run into the same thing if someone asks the difference between ITF and WTF. Good Luck. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 10 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 08:05:40 -0400 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] training journal? From: Westport Academy Of Taekwondo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I would love to see a copy of your training diary as well if you don't mind. Thanks Bill (address on bottom) On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 23:26:28 EDT ChunjiDo@aol.com writes: > < I have been doing TSD for only a year and it has provided for me as > I am > sure any or all martial arts provide, a sense of being in the > world > differently. > Being 50 years of age, the process of embracing TSD into my life is > challenging. My request to you is simple. > How do you maintain the discipline and focus outside of the dojang? > Do you use a type of training journal? > Any information concerning the above would be greatly appreciated? > Thanks > Pat>> > > hey pat, > gimme your address and i'll send you a _Martial Arts Training Diary_ > for > free. :) you might find it helpful. > take care, > melinda > > Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy > http://www.cjmaa.com > Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply > http://www.cjmas.com > Toll Free: 1-877-847-4072 > Proud Sponsor of the 2003 Annual Show Me State Open Martial Arts > Tournament > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > Westport Academy Of Taekwondo 275-50 Post Road East Westport, CT 06880 Tel: (203) 341-0311 Visit Our Web Site At: http://www.geocities.com/bbtkd ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 07:31:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Art "Haidong Gumdo" Internationalized Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Korean Martial Art "Haidong Gumdo" Internationalized -Nam, Se Woo 2002 1st World Haidong Gumdo Championship, held at Yongpyeong Indoor Dome in Kangwon-do from July 23 through 25, was successful. Haidong Gumdo Organizing Committee supervised this event, which was the first international Haidong Gumdo open competition, first ever held in Korea. Actually World Haidong Gumdo Federation(president Kim Jeong-ho) had hosted a Korean domestic competition successfully before, and based on that know-how and confidence, WHGF hosted this international event. "Light of the sword(??)" reflecting sublime and shining sunlight over the horizon at dawn, Haidong Gumdo implies truth for justice. Haidong Gumdo is a Korean original martial art with a short history of 30 years or so. Currently, Haidong Gumdo has 8 major associations and 70 minor groups as of May 2002(magazine Mars, May 2002- "Haidong Gumdo, Make up a front"). It is only 20 years since the first Haidong Gumdo school was opened. In this sense, Haidong Gumdo has spread out faster than any other Korean original martial art. Then what is the reason that so many people became fascinated with Haidong Gumdo that fast? The reason is simple. As Taekwondo spread out worldwide during president Park's Export Drive Campaign in 1970's, becoming the channel for western people to learn and feel oriental martial art spirit, Haidong Gumdo, another unknown Asian martial art, has also played a role in opening channels for people in the world to learn the skills and its mental spirit. The following is the interview with a western instructor who has practiced Taekwondo for over 20 years and Haidong Gumdo for more than 2 years. I met him at the arena during the 1st World Haidong Gumdo Championship. Q : Have you ever been here in Korea before? A : Yes, this is the third time. Q : What do you think about Korea? A : I love Korea, very much. Q : How long have you been practicing Haidong Gumdo? A : About 2 years. Q : What do you think about Haidong Gumdo? A : I like it very much. I've played Taekwondo for over 20 years and I liked Taekwondo, too. Haidong Gumdo has revitalized my love for martial arts. The way of practicing is very interesting. Q: What do you think are differences between Taekwondo and Haidong Gumdo? A: This is just my opinion, but Taekwondo has become a sport. So when you play Taekwondo you have to compete with your opponent and beat him. It is quite competitive. But Haidong Gumdo is more like a traditional martial art and is more about self-mastery. I think this is the difference from other sports, and an important point. I think anyone can improve their life by practicing Haidong Gumdo. While sports such as Taekwondo or baseball require you to beat other people, Haidong Gumdo helps you to better your life. Q : You won a silver medal. How do you feel? A : I think the silver medal in the world championship is a great thing. I want to participate in the next championship and have a better result. As the interview displays, Taekwondo has become a sport more than a martial art, and got closer to people.(Of course, I don't mean that Taekwondo is not a martial art any more.) In this situation, Haidong Gumdo is just the thing for those who want to devote themselves to oriental martial arts and self-disciplinary training. Basically Japanese Aikido let trainees use a Juk-do(bamboo sword or stick) for mental training and sparring, but Haidong lets trainees use Mok-gum(wood sword) and a real sword, which is reflective of modern people's desire, and has diversified programs so that not only adults but also kids and senior citizens can practice Gumdo with passion. The initiators of Haidong Gumdo are only in their 50's, so they are still young and open-minded to changes taking place in the world. This young Haidong Gumdo should globalize itself now and more importantly it should become a substantial martial art. It is not time for struggling over immediate profits, nor is it time to argue 'I am the first originator.' The more often you fight, the more people may want to leave Haidong Gumdo. By improving the quality of leaders and seeking after something new all the time without losing the very core, all people concerned to Haidong Gumdo should try hard to globalize Haidong Gumdo. Now is the time for qualitative advancement, not for quantitative growth. I believe this is the only way for Haidong Gumdo to grow and be loved by people for ever. The awarding and closing ceremonies ended and the first World Haidong Gumdo Championship concluded on July 25. Those who participated in this event toured in Korea for 2-3 days before they left Korea. I hope Organizing Committee's delicate consideration of all participants has given a strong impression to foreign instructors, and their visit to Korea can be a good memory. --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 08:54:28 -0700 From: JW To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] chinese/japanese Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A comparison of Hapikido techniques with the different lineages of Chinese Chin Na techniques show amazing similarity. Although Hapkido's throws may resemble Japanese throws - there is virtually no distinguising Hapkido joint locks from the Chin Na or seizing techniques of the Chinese arts. But I will leave a more detailed comparison to my betters. Respectfully, Joel S. Weissler freddie bishop wrote: > In hapkido, where is the Chinese influence? I can >clearly see the Japanese flavor in the throwing >techniques. I have never practiced Hapkido. I practice >Tae Kwon Do, WTF. --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 11:03:30 -0700 (PDT) From: J T To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Self defense classes Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Do any of you fine instructors have an outline on self defense/self awareness class that you would be willing to share. I am going to attempt doing a course at the local health club and would like to have some ideas. Thanks Jeremy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 14 From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 14:30:06 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: TaeKwondo/Tangsoodo 2 distinct methods? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 8/30/02 6:04:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > I have seperated Tang Soo Do > and Tae Kwon Do as two distinct methods. > > Fred > > How have you seperated them? What do you define as the elements and methods that make them thier own serpate entities? Jack --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 13:58:20 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: "Dojang Digest" Subject: [The_Dojang] Mr/Dr, & ancient Korean arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Russell MacLellan Wrote: > "Mr. Chang Ung's claim in recent meetings with Mr. Un Yong Kim ..." Gordon White replied: > Actually, its Dr. Un Yong Kim...This is like calling General Choi "Private > Choi". Does that mean all of you need to start calling me Dr. Burdick? God, I hope not! I think Russell was showing plenty of respect -- Mr. is an honorific too. Ali M. Alnasser posted an article he found on the Busan web: > The martial arts that exist today are a fusion of the ancient traditions and they have been > standardised after 1945. They have been affected recently by the Japanese occupation when > Korean martial arts were banned. I hope everyone realizes that the martial arts in Korea today are a fusion of Japanese, Okinawan, and Korean traditions. > Taekwondo literally translates as the way of the foot and the fist and has its roots in the > ancient martial arts of subak, hwarangdo and taekyon. With hwarangdo being an ancient philosophy, and subak and t'aekkyeon being ancient martial arts. > Other combination martial > arts are Tang Soo Do, which attempted to unite all martial arts under one name and Kong > Shin Bup, which means empty body and open mind. Tangsudo actually is just the Korean pronunciation of "Chinese hands way" (Karate in Okinawa and Japan). I'm fascinated by the mention of Kongshinbup as well. Rudy, were you involved in that one? Or is it because of a group that is actually in Korea that we should know about? Yours in the arts, Dakin burdickd@indiana.edu --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest