Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 03:02:07 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #426 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Gathering (Rudy Timmerman) 2. Kong Shin Bup (Rudy Timmerman) 3. Best Kata Training Tape?????? (Anoot@aol.com) 4. freds ? (Contact Sports) 5. Re: freds ? (Ray Terry) 6. Moo Duk Kwan / Other Kwan (San Diego) (John Groff) 7. Re: hapkido in MO (ChunjiDo@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 16:35:20 -0400 From: "Rudy Timmerman" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Gathering Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce writes: > (BTW: am I to > understand that Rudy may be participating in another up-coming event?). > Inquiring minds would like to know. Hello Bruce: I am doing a seminar in Erie, PA on September 15th weekend, and I'll also be at the Gathering with some of my students a few weeks later. I spoke with Masters Stigal and Gavin while in Orlando this past weekend, and I am told that I'll be asked to do something at the Gathering. I'm always glad to share things, so I'll teach whatever is asked of me. Hope to see you there. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 17:15:08 -0400 From: "Rudy Timmerman" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Kong Shin Bup Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dr. Burdick writes: > I'm fascinated by the mention of > Kongshinbup as well. Rudy, were you involved in that one? Or is it > because of a group that is actually in Korea that we should know about? Hello Dakin: I am not sure where this thread began, as I was not here for a few days. As I read more back issues, I'll stumble across the origin of the thread. Perhaps then I can offer more input. >From what I know now, I gather that someone likened Kuk Sool to KSB. If so, I believe that is probably because GM Pak and GM Suh (and a number of other Masters) worked together as Kuk Sool was created. Bruce: Since Dakin also trained with GM Pak, he might have additional information. He is also much more into martial arts history than I am. I just practice and teach what GM Pak taught me. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Anoot@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:28:58 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Best Kata Training Tape?????? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Anyone out there know where I can order the best training tape or tapes for the following kata's. I need the tapes ASAP by Federal Express. 1.Sochin 2. Gojushiho-Sho 3. Gojushiho-Dai Alan Noot at anoot@aol.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Contact Sports" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 17:39:26 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] freds ? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Usually I lurk but Freds questions got me going.The original kwans of Korea were different depending on the instructor teaching. Some had training in Jap./Oki. arts,some Chinese.Many masters trained in China or Japan and learned much of their style of teaching.During Japans occupation of Korea(approx.40yrs.)the Koreans could only practice Japanese styles.Of course many still trained in their native arts in secret,under penalty of imprisonment or death if caught.Chinese techniques flowed freely into Korea for thousands of years(and probably vice-versa),they are on the same land mass.Hundreds of years ago the further south you got the more Korean things would become because the borders were constantly changing due to disputes,war,ect.Differing techniques were usually minor,such as different folding positions for blocks,stances,or order of movements in hyungs(forms),sometimes actual moves were changed such as a knifehand block instead of a high block.Overall there was not much to differenciate between the major kick-punch styles.After W.W.II there was a surge of patriotism in Korea and many of the masters opened up schools teaching what they had synthesized from indigenous arts as well as Chinese/Japanese arts.Many were severely critisized for teaching anything remotely Japanese and had to "Koreanize" their arts.Between W.W.II and the Korean war there were attempts to unify the kwans with varied success.During the Korean war many masters were killed in the conflict and some were North Korean(communist)who were ostrasized because of politics.After the Korean war more attempts were made to unify the styles with the Korean govt. trying to help push some of the kwans dragging their feet on board.Again this met with dubious success with some groups dropping in and out,some splintering,and some going their own way for good. During the 70's the World Taekwondo Association was formed under the guidance of the Korean govt. to promote T.K.D.to the world and to hope fully become recognized by the I.O.C.and become an olympic sport.There has to be a unified body with rules and standard guidelines for a sport to be recognized by the International Olympic Committee to be allowed to participate in the games.This is when the styles were combined to form one large group with the same forms(poomse),sparring techniques and judging rules you see today.The name Taekwondo was finally adopted for good(it had been around for some time and had been used because of its similarity to Taekyon,an ancient Korean martial art)and Tang Soo Do and Taekwondo were finally separate.Depending on what your instructors master called his art is why some styles call themselves MooDukKwan T.S.D. or MooDukKwan Taekwondo.Both probably still practice the older giechos,pinans,(PYONGS)and Bassai,Naihanchi and sometimes the Palgues.These forms were "Koreanized"and were Japanese or Okinawan in origin so similarities will be abundant between them .The Koreran versions are broader,with deeper stances and full hip techniques similar to Northern Shaolin Kung-fu.It is interesting to note that an Okinawan legend(supposedly backed up by some fact)has it that a Chinese emmissary(diplomat)was either shipwrecked or landed there and taught the local people his style of martial arts.In those times diplomats were skilled in martial arts out of neccesity.His name was "Kusanku" and his form was very long and intricate.The Okinawans combined this with "Te"(hand)and this art is what was later brought to Japan to be called "Karate",which was later brought to Korea.Basically the Koreans saw that the Japanese had a good structure to their teaching methods and adopted it changing it to suit their needs.I have tried to give you some insight as to what some of the Korean arts are like with out being biased.Much has been written on the subject and I hope you will research it on your own and come to your own answers.TRY to find a copy of the "Muyedobo Tongji",this will give you a better understanding of what ancient Korean arts looked like,("Illustrated Manual of Martial Arts").It has been translated into English.As for me,I dont care where the techniques came from,if it works,use it. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] freds ? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 14:58:09 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > to unify the kwans with varied success.During the Korean war many masters > were killed in the conflict and some were North Korean.... Many? I know of one, the founder of YMCA Kwon Bop, Byung In Yoon. Who were the others? > way for good. During the 70's the World Taekwondo Association was formed > under the guidance of the Korean govt. to promote T.K.D.to the world ... I think you mean the WTF. The WTA is a different organization. > subject and I hope you will research it on your own and come to your own > answers.TRY to find a copy of the "Muyedobo Tongji",this will give you a > better understanding of what ancient Korean arts looked like,("Illustrated > Manual of Martial Arts").It has been translated into English. Yes, Muyedobo is easily found these days. I too recommend it. But we now believe it was a Korean documentation of Chinese martial/military arts. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "John Groff" To: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:47:59 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Moo Duk Kwan / Other Kwan (San Diego) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net JW wrote: "My original instructor was one of GM Kee's first fifty black belts. Throughout his lifetime he maintained good relations with GM Hwang Kee, including his affiliation with the Moo Duk Kwan. For Black belt testing we were required to perform TSD, ITF and WTF BB forms. He became affiliated with the General Choi's organization because of the advantages he was offered. For my former instructor, primary amongst those incentives was sponsored immigration to the United States. He was brought here to teach a then young 1st Dan, Charles Serreff who he later promoted to 2nd Dan." Joel, are you by any chance talking about Moon Gu Baek? Best Wishes, Chaney Hardman --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 23:57:41 -0400 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: hapkido in MO Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "A freind is moving to Missouri and wants to start training in Hapkido.Can Anyone reccommend a good dojang or two he can visit?" hi jack, its a big state...where's he moving in MO? there's master john brown in the kansas city area. he's at 913-648-6868. its a kansas number, but he's in the kansas city metro area. there's also master ron poorman in independence, mo. not sure of his number offhand. we're in columbia, and do some hapkido, but are primarily tkd. wouldnt want to sell him one thing and give him another. let me know if i can be of more help :) take care, melinda --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest