Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:29:07 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #444 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Andrew Jackson College (c) 2. Springfield School (Cliff.Vaught@pmusa.com) 3. Re: TKD and pregnancy... (Klaus Steinberger) 4. ITF/WTF TKD (Alastair Vance) 5. doubtful on Ki (Paul Monier) 6. RE:The Force (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 7. RE: ITF/WTF TKD (Westport Academy Of Taekwondo) 8. RE: TKD and pregnancy... (Westport Academy Of Taekwondo) 9. hapkido in Seoul (Ray Terry) 10. RE: To Ki, or not to Ki (Jeremy) 11. RE: TKD and Pregnancy (Farral, Kim) 12. Qi development (Dave Weller) 13. To Ki or not to Ki (michael tomlinson) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 01:49:19 -0400 From: c <24wide@bellsouth.net> To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Andrew Jackson College Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Does anyone have information about Andrew Jackson College in Louisiana. I read that Dr. Kimm was the Dean there at one time. I can not find any information about the school on the internet. Maybe the name has changed. thanks chris --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Cliff.Vaught@pmusa.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 09:56:36 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Springfield School Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Try Roberts Karate - see www.robertskarate.com. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 16:05:18 +0200 From: Klaus Steinberger To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: TKD and pregnancy... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Barbara, > I know this may sound like a dumb question, but I'd > like to find out if anyone has information on how far > into pregnancy I can or should keep on training. It depends on how well you feel with it, and of course on you're healthiness and the healthiness of you're baby. I know some people who have done training up into 7th month of pregnancy, but you should be aware of some things. My own wife is pregnant at the moment. She has done some training, but currently has stopped training, because she feels not well with it. > I just found out I'm pregnant, and I plan to ask my > instructor to let me skip the sparring sessions, but I > don't want to stop training altogether if I can manage > it. You should definitly do no sparring! You should be very careful with partner excercises, do them only with people which are very controlled, and whom you would trust in any case. You should avoid a hard focus in you're techniques, do them all with a soft movement, and avoid hard stops. Better concentrate now on precision. You should be careful with abdominal power excersizes, especially the ones for the straight muscles. You should be careful with stretching. Do it, but no extrem stretching, as you're connective tissue is much weaker during pregnancy. In case you're in doubt, ask you're doctor. With regards, Klaus -- Klaus Steinberger Maier-Leibnitz Labor Phone: (+49 89)289 14287 Am Coulombwall 6, D-85748 Garching, Germany FAX: (+49 89)289 14280 EMail: Klaus.Steinberger@Physik.Uni-Muenchen.DE URL: http://www.physik.uni-muenchen.de/~k2/ --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Alastair Vance Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 15:08:39 +0100 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] ITF/WTF TKD Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi all, I've just started TKD classes which follow the ITF rules(?) I am told that TKD is also taught using WTF rules. What am I missing out on? What are the pro's and con's of each path? Can anyone point me to an internet resource that compares the two, or even explain here on the list? Thanks, Alastair. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Paul Monier" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:30:06 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] doubtful on Ki Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am not an expert on ki or it's development. Skeptical, inquiring and seeking for experienceare can be rewarding qualities but is lost when ignorance replaces these qualities. If you seek it Exprience can teach a lot of things that books can not. >From my experience Ki is not magic or omnipotent but is the power of the body increased through control of the breathing mechanism. You reader writes; "Can you touch it, see it, smell it, taste it, or hear it?" I will tell you I can not touch, see, smell, taste, or hear how much I love my children, but I know I love them nonetheless. So by my experience I know this exists to me and it means nothing to most others. You have to experience it to appreciate it, and if you care not to that is fine also. …how do you develop something that is so difficult to DEFINE, much less measure? Practicing a technique, as in martial arts is how you develop that technique to be practical and useful. If you teach a student to kick or punch or throw, then you know in the beginning the student will not have a full grasp or practical usage of the technique. if he/she practices enough and refines the technique then eventually it is strong and applicable in a practical sense. Once again it is through the consistent experience of training that comes the understanding and usefulness of technique. I do not espouse the alpowerful benfits of Ki, but I have experienced it. Monier sahbum _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 09:37:50 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE:The Force Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear John: "......I have a molecular biology degree, and can honestly say that I have yet to clone a qi gene. I did cover that stuff in my third year of college, in my General Education elective "Asian Philosophy". ;)...." There are a lot of times when I like to poke fun at the "ki masters" in the martial arts. Its not so much that I doubt the existence of Ki but that I have never believed that it works quite the way that a lot of instructors like to report to their students. I, too, have been encouraged to use "Ki" when executing a technique. However, I have found that when operationally defined what is being referred to includes subtle bits of off-balancing, un-timing, mis-alignment and refinement of technique with usually a healthy dose of suggestability, redirection and firm intent thrown in. From this standpoint, my answer to the question, "what is Ki" comes out as "extraordinary high levels of skill. " Taking a different approach, I still make a case for the role of Ki as it relates to the individual body. Having experienced and benefited from Acupuncture to address a nasty spur in my foot, I won't pretend that I don't believe that there are some subtle ways to influence, perhaps even develop the flow of life energy within the human body. Maybe, just maybe, it could even be developed to the point that it might be externalized at will. Now I am treading on thin ice. Such skills would, if possible, probably take more investment of time and energy than would allow a human being to live an ordinary life. Don't look for me to be tossing fireballs any time soon. Short of a convenient way to light the charcoal grill, who would want to? What I would encourage you to consider is that Science as a repository for knowledge is not an absolutely perfect container. Its most easily identifiable sentry, Statistics, was borne of the natural human need to find unassailable patterns in a pervasively chaotic universe. Further, knowledge is not all physical and intellectual. Emotional and spiritual aspects of the human condition have their laws, causes and effects, and while these four planes related to each other, nobody has come up with a sound understanding of how this actually happens. What I advocate is that we make as much room for what we know as what we believe and let the resolution between the two come of itself. May the Force be with You. :-) Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Westport Academy Of Taekwondo" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] ITF/WTF TKD Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 10:43:37 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have had the fortune to have trained in both styles. They both have their plus and minuses. There are far too many nuances to explain in a simple email. Perhaps sometime over some Ginseng tea and some Kimchee we could get into it further:) Most important right now is that you have a good instructor. One can believe in and follow for the many years to come. Yours in Taekwondo Bill Bill Bleakley Westport Academy Of Taekwondo 275-50 Post Road East Westport, CT 06880 Tel (203) 341-0311 FAX (203) 834-0300 Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/bbtkd -----Original Message----- From: Alastair Vance [mailto:avance@cts-eur.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 10:09 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] ITF/WTF TKD Hi all, I've just started TKD classes which follow the ITF rules(?) I am told that TKD is also taught using WTF rules. What am I missing out on? What are the pro's and con's of each path? Can anyone point me to an internet resource that compares the two, or even explain here on the list? Thanks, Alastair. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Westport Academy Of Taekwondo" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] TKD and pregnancy... Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 10:47:35 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My wife trained up until a couple of weeks before delivery. The day before she delivered she did a cart wheel. Go figure. You should be able to train as long as you want. Watch your heart rate and be smart about what you can/should do with your training (i.e. sparring etc). Best of luck. Yours in Taekwondo Bill Bill Bleakley Westport Academy Of Taekwondo 275-50 Post Road East Westport, CT 06880 Tel (203) 341-0311 FAX (203) 834-0300 Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/bbtkd -----Original Message----- From: Barbara Campos [mailto:bcamposc@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 12:16 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] TKD and pregnancy... Hi to all! I know this may sound like a dumb question, but I'd like to find out if anyone has information on how far into pregnancy I can or should keep on training. I just found out I'm pregnant, and I plan to ask my instructor to let me skip the sparring sessions, but I don't want to stop training altogether if I can manage it. Any suggestions or advice? Thank you for your help! Barbara Mendez __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:05:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] hapkido in Seoul Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Another HKD dojang to check out in Seoul. The instructor there is KIM Nam-jea. Kyong Moo Kwan Hyoja Sang Ka, 2 Fl, Tong In-dopng 6 Jongro-ku It is a KHF dojang. Big practice floor. Gm Kim is a very nice fellow. Not much English spoken there. Like many places in Seoul, you won't be able to locate it w/o being able to call them. 737-0939... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Jeremy" To: Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 10:01:18 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: To Ki, or not to Ki Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Craig, I generally consider myself to be a pretty hard-core skeptic myself. Are you familiar with Michael Shermer? I too used to raise an eyebrow every time the subject of ki would come up. Well, here is a convenient viewpoint that I use when I am feeling at my most skeptical. There is hard evidence that there is energy flowing through our bodies at all times, and that through concentration and practice this energy can be focused to do amazing things. I am talking about kinetic energy, the same kinetic energy that they teach you about in physics class. Every time you through a punch our a kick, it starts somewhere and travels through your body. As it travels it picks up momentum and is ultimately dispersed into your target. Many ki exercises seem at least on some level to help you learn to focus this energy by developing your fine motor control and practicing the transferring of energy through your body. I bring this up only to suggest another viewpoint. You mentioned the suggestions, "just the breath", and, "bioelectric current". I have found that my kinetic energy interpretation can allow for a lot of what my Korean masters have talked about, however I am the guy that said that I had a teacher who could slowly move a paper cup across a table without touching it. I still have no explanation for that. Curious to know what everybody thinks, Jeremy --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Farral, Kim" To: 'Dojang' Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 10:21:08 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: TKD and Pregnancy Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net When I was a colored belt...One of the Black Belts was pregnant...her husband was a Black Belt as well so he was always with her should anything happen...but she continued training into her 9th month...of course...the further along she was the more she eased up...but she continued to do floor exercises, forms, and she even did flying side kicks against the heavy bag...at one point she no longer flew...just waddled and hopped a couple inches off the floor...but she continued training almost to the point of delivery...she said it really helped her have an easier delivery... Just one example... I am sure there are more out there and some may not be as good...have known others that have continued to train while pregnant as well...they have all seemed to do rather well with it...but everyone is different...check with your doctor and make sure what he/she recommends...don't push yourself if he/she believes it could cause problems of any kind...find out what his/her recommendations are for your limitations... and congratulations...hope the baby is a very healthy future TKDer Pil Seung! The One and Only "Tink" Kim G. Farral 5th Dan TKD ************************************ If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT. ************************************ --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 10:17:12 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Dave Weller Subject: [The_Dojang] Qi development Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The Amazing Randi's evil twin wrote: > >From: "Stovall, Craig" >I'm a skeptic, folks...humor me. When we talk about "ki development"...how >do you develop something that is so difficult to DEFINE, much less measure? >I mean...does Homedics sell a Chi-ometer that I can use to take my ki >readings in the morning? "Whoops...the Chi-ometer says that my internal >energy is only 115 over 25 this morning. I better do three Sanchin kata, a >set of Drunken Monkey deep breathing sets, and some sphincter clinches." >Craig "The Amazing Randi is gullible compared to me" Stovall > > I will say I share your skepticism regarding "stuff I can't touch". I will also say that, having practiced Qi (chi,ki) Gong exercises, as well as Tai Chi, over the last several years there seem to be physical benefits from these types of exercises. Do I have bulging Qi muscles? (bulging belly maybe.. nothing else) Can I move objects using my immense powers of chi control? (everyone I know insists I cannot, but sometimes I think the salt shaker moves across the table at my mental command) Do I fell better after practice? Yep. Breathing is better, flexibility improves, improved mental clarity, and a general sense of well-being are all tangible results that I relate directly to those practices. Is this due to the steady breathing, slow movements and mental concentration? Or do those exercises affect the bodies electrical fields? If my Qi-Chi-Ki is being developed without my knowledge I am pleased. If it is not, I am still pleased because I just plain feel better (I can touch that!!!) after a session of Eight Silk Brocades..... Look, if you are able to get folks to engage in a healthy activity by "bending" the truth(not a spoon) just a bit, isn't that a good thing? We seem to hear everyday that eating this or that or doing one or the other exercise will lengthen your life. We all (all us sensible ones anyhow) know that we could get hit by a truck on the way out of the gym or health food store no matter what we do, yet we continue to follow these guidelines without real proof they are of any benefit. How often have we heard a dietary recommendation change? Even those that have had mountains of research and years of common use. The old adage applies.... "if it feels good, do it!" have a groovy day, dave weller --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 15:29:16 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] To Ki or not to Ki Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have to agree with Craig Stovall on a lot of his ki approach. I personally think too many people look into ki,, when they should JUST be doing breathing exercises. If you focus on Ki I think you are looking at it in the wrong manner. Don't worry about ki or chi or prana, just practice your breathing exercises and everything else takes care of itself... One question for Craig. Craig do you believe in God? And if so can you tell me when and where or by what means you have seen, talked to, or met him or her or it? If you tell me you are a devout atheist then your arguement about ki is legitimate, but if you tell me you believe in God then it is not. Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest