Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:06:07 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #451 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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RE: RE:Bible Stuff (Alastair Vance) 2. RE: Sports Injuries (Stovall, Craig) 3. Kay-Lee-O-Kee (Dave Wilson) 4. This is an OPEN Forum (Cliff.Vaught@pmusa.com) 5. Re: To ki or not to ki? (Lasich, Mark D.) 6. RE: Religion stuff (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 7. To Ki or Not to Ki...Final Installment (Stovall, Craig) 8. Me and Bruce...Seems Like Old Times (Stovall, Craig) 9. RE: Kay-Lee-O-Kee (Martin, Patrick Marvin) 10. RE: Christianity -Final Response (Ates, Michelle (ATESML)) 11. Re: Pregnancy and Martial Arts Training (MiriSara@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Alastair Vance Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:39:15 +0100 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE:Bible Stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce, Can I ask why/how you became a buddhist? Did you start martial arts first - was this how you were introduced to it, or were you a buddhist already? Feel free to email me direct if you don't want this to be a group discussion. Alastair. -----Original Message----- From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov [mailto:Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov] Sent: 20 September 2002 13:10 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] RE:Bible Stuff Dear Michelle: ".....I am a Christian martial artist....." I am a little confused. This is a Korean Martial Art Net, and superficially your post seems to address an overview of Christian acculturation utilizing a learning paradigm often seen in martial art education (ie. the belt rank system). Thats clever enough, but I am wondering about the actual purpose of your post. Is this yet one more opportunity for Christian evangelism to be propagated among a select population whether we want to listen to it or not? I am wondering if you would care to sit through an extended post of mine regarding how parallels that can be drawn between learning paradigms in MA and the Sutras? Its not that I fault you for expressing yourself. I just wonder if you gave any thought to the fact that this is an International Net and that its readers include more than one nation, more than one faith, and perhaps more than a few people find the introduction of evangelism into this Net offensive and insensitive to their belief systems. In my own case I work hard not to "preach" Buddhism and restrict my comments regarding my faith to either direct questions or issues immediately germane to the discussion. By way of suggestion, perhaps you could drop citing the Bible verses, return to the Ki discussion, or take up my speculation on morality in the KMA rather than organized religion. Just some thoughts. Best Wishes, Bruce _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang This e-mail is from Clinical Trial Services. 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Registration Number NI 41905 Registered Address : Units 7-9 Seagoe Industrial Estate Craigavon BT63 5QD Northern Ireland --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 08:43:07 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Sports Injuries Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "TeachingInChina", It's difficult to diagnose what's going on with you without knowing a lot of the details. Your age, your sex, your height and weight, your relative level of conditioning, the intensity with which your are practicing, etc. I'll offer some thoughts for your consideration. 1. Are you properly warming up before engaging in whatever activities you are doing? 2. Are you properly conditioned for the activities that you are trying to pursue? The reason I ask is that I've seen a lot of people who want to engage in strenuous activities, but are not taking the time to properly condition their bodies to withstand the stresses that come with the activity. I call this the "Weekend Warrior Syndrome". You know...the desk jockey who hasn't been active for years, and decides to go out and play in the company softball game as if it were a championship game. He goes sliding into second and blows out his knee. That's an extreme example, but perhaps analogous to some martial artists. Take a look at your conditioning in terms of strength, speed, flexibility. 3. Are you overtraining? The only time I get sick or injured is when I've been pushing things a little too hard on my conditioning routines. Remember why most sports have seasons...the human body was just not meant to function at peak levels of activity for extended periods of times. Otherwise, we would box, wrestle, play football, and shoot hoops all year round at competitive levels. Sooner or later something's going to give. Are you giving your body the proper rest it needs both on a micro level (getting enough sleep every night, and practicing relaxation exercises), and a macro level (toning down the intensity of your training for extended periods)? If you are injured...you need to rest. This doesn't mean go sit on the couch. Take two weeks from your regular routine, and participate in some light activities such as walking, light stretching, yoga, etc. Your body is telling you something...you need to listen. 4. Are you paying attention to your nutritional intake? If you are placing high performance demands on your body then you had better be paying attention to what you put in it. Professional athletes don't hire nutritional counselors because it's "trendy". They know that fueling the body with quality material is one of the keys to staying healthy and injury free. 5. Are you staying adequately hydrated? 6. Are you getting what you "need" from whatever you are doing on a mental/emotional level? Burnout can be a cause of injury. There's nothing worse than putting yourself in a stressful environment in which you have to force yourself through, or (even worse) just go through the motions. Take a step back and evaluate. Again, take some time off and focus on something else for a couple of weeks. Do some reading, spend some time with loved ones, or do some traveling. Sometimes you have to recharge the batteries upstairs. Hope this helps. Craig "I'm not a coach, but I play one on this list" Stovall --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Dave Wilson" To: Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 08:54:41 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Kay-Lee-O-Kee Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Does anyone know what the word Kay-Lee-O-Kee means? Our Hapkido Master uses this term in reference to hosinsool. Thanks. Dave Wilson 1st Dan HKD --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Cliff.Vaught@pmusa.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:59:36 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] This is an OPEN Forum Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce, I think you're out of line. This is an OPEN forum and that is a relevant concern for people who don't want to be involved in the eastern aspects of mysticism and philosophy. The discussion on Ki could also be viewed as religious in nature - as can all the martial arts for that matter. Did not Kung Fu arise out of the Shaolin priesthood? You have had a very free reign on this forum as I can tell over the last 6 months waxing lyrically about every subject you desire. What you've done in your response is say that you don't like this topic - now either talk about what you like or go away. To those who are Christian, it IS a question to come to grips with and to defend. As you can see, there are a LOT of us out there who train in the arts and are believing Christians. By the way, is Ki really a Korean concept, or is it Chinese? If this is a Korean MA Net, then what are you bringing up Chinese things for? That's exactly how you sound to us who are interested in the experiences other Christians have who train. Soo Bahk and God Bless you Cliff > -----Original Message----- > From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net > [SMTP:the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net] > Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 9:30 AM > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #450 - 8 msgs > > > Message: 5 > From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 07:10:21 -0500 > Subject: [The_Dojang] RE:Bible Stuff > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Dear Michelle: > > ".....I am a Christian martial artist....." > > I am a little confused. This is a Korean Martial Art Net, and > superficially > your post seems to address an overview of Christian acculturation > utilizing > a learning paradigm often seen in martial art education (ie. the belt rank > system). Thats clever enough, but I am wondering about the actual purpose > of > your post. Is this yet one more opportunity for Christian evangelism to be > propagated among a select population whether we want to listen to it or > not? > I am wondering if you would care to sit through an extended post of mine > regarding how parallels that can be drawn between learning paradigms in MA > and the Sutras? Its not that I fault you for expressing yourself. I just > wonder if you gave any thought to the fact that this is an International > Net > and that its readers include more than one nation, more than one faith, > and > perhaps more than a few people find the introduction of evangelism into > this > Net offensive and insensitive to their belief systems. In my own case I > work > hard not to "preach" Buddhism and restrict my comments regarding my faith > to > either direct questions or issues immediately germane to the discussion. > By > way of suggestion, perhaps you could drop citing the Bible verses, return > to > the Ki discussion, or take up my speculation on morality in the KMA rather > than organized religion. Just some thoughts. > > Best Wishes, > > Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Lasich, Mark D." To: "Dojang (E-mail)" Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:04:21 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: To ki or not to ki? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net While I have not engaged in any ki training at all, and even the breathing exercises leave me, well breathless, I do tend to believe there is more to this world than the things we can see and measure. Bruce Lee once noted that when you start measuring things and evaluating them that you remove yourself from the experience and become an observer. He said to stop observing life, and start living it! Now to my question: I have a "touch sensitive" lamp on my desk at work. We've all seen them, where you touch any of the metal components and the lamp goes on, or off! Well, if I take my hands from, say two feet away, and push my hands toward the lamp, stopping about an inch or two from the lamp, you guess it, the lamp turns on/off! This works only when I am relaxed, if I try to "force" it to happen, it does not! This is not unique to me, myself and nearly all my coworkers can perform this trick! Take our hands, wave them around the lamp, etc. and absolutely NOTHING happens. Gently extend our hands toward the lamp, and it turns on just like magic! Is this an extension of our KI? I really don't know. I would like to think so. You have to be relaxed for it to work (kind of reminds me of Yoda in the original Star Wars film, when he is lifting the X-Wing fighter out of the swamp). Anyone care to shed some light on this? I've asked some Electrical Engineers, who couldn't shed any light on the subject (pun intended). So, I am left with this being a ki experience! You know, if we perfect this, it would put the Clapper out of business! (I couldn't resist)! In the spirit, Mark mark.lasich@alcoa.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:06:19 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Religion stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Rich: ".....I find the question of "can you be a Christian and become a Black belt?" interesting. What in the world does religion have to do with the martial arts......" I understand what you are asking and perhaps there is some benefit along these lines of discussion if for no other reason than to get folks to understand that there is a difference between organized religion and the belief structure it espouses and developing a moral compass by which one can guide their practice. Centuries ago Won Hyo developed a code by which warriors in a predominant Buddhist society could reconcile a violent occupation with a belief system based on Peace. I don't know that the idea was to make hardcore warriors all Buddhists. Rather, the intent seems to have been to strengthen and unify beliefs within the individual so as to produce a more durable sense of purpose. If people would like to discuss this aspect of MA training I wouldn't mind joining in. However, I think its a mistake to pretend that simply stating the organizational structure of a religion is going to magically relate to martial arts any more than belaboring the planks in the Democratic party platform will automatically make the apathetic among us better citizens. Nor does it follow that all people would use religion to safeguard their sense of purpose in the KMA, let alone a specific religion. Please excuse me, Rich, if I am using your post to communicate to Net members some thoughts on the direction this discussion is taking. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:09:14 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] To Ki or Not to Ki...Final Installment Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Randall, Suffice it to say that I could come back with a dozen more probing questions, and you could reply with two dozen more answers, to which I would again reply, ad infinitum. Next time I'm at a good bookstore I'll look over a couple of the titles that you suggested, and see if any of them strike a chord. In the end, I remain skeptical at best. However, in the spirit of good sportsmanship I will reply to one comment that you made. <<>> So let me get this straight. If I'm standing at the urinal and I "hit the target" then I'm just as crude as if I had gone in the floor? Dang!!! I'm screwed either way:) That's it for me and ki. BTW, forget about fireballs. I bet you can pick up more chicks by pushing paper cups across the table. Yessiree!!! Craig Stovall --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:31:50 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Me and Bruce...Seems Like Old Times Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce wrote, <<>> Weeelllllll, let's not go jumping off of the deep end. I can only speak for myself, but as a non-Christian I was not offended by the post. I don't think the intention was to advance the faith, but rather illustrate how there is no "conflict of interest" in being a practicing Christian and a practicing Martial Artist. Am I missing something? After all, that WAS the original question that got this all started. If YOU are offended then I would make the following suggestion...don't read such posts. It didn't take me until the end of her submission to figure out where it was going. I read it nonetheless, but I could have very easily rolled my eyes, and skipped to the next message if I were so inclined. Is it a requirement here to read every post? Ray? You are also correct that this is a diverse list. Part of that diversity is comprised of people who practice their faith right alongside with their kicks, and they are going to voice their opinions, beliefs, and experiences from time to time. I'm sorry that a small piece of that pie offends you, but that's the itty bitty price you're going to have to pay in order to ensure that this list remains healthy. Then again maybe you're right. Maybe the Christian martial artists need to go start their own list. That way they can talk all they want to about bible verses, salvation, and the quickest way to disarm a crazed attacker without offending the sensibilities of the Buddhists, Taoists, atheists, witches, strippers, and lesbians here on this fine list. After all THOSE people never offend anybody, or try to force their paradigms on others through such nefarious tactics as sending a message to a list. And if you should attempt to post a message to their list in which you let slip the fact that you are a Buddhist (cause Lord knows you try your best to hide it), then it is my sincere hope that they do not curse your soul to the eternal fires of hell's damnation for daring to accept the Four Noble Truths before the eternal Gospel of Jesus Christ. I hope they find it within themselves to express one of the finest (and sometimes rarest) of Christian virtues...tolerance. You know? That same tolerance that the Buddhists are always yapping about? And it is quite evident that you are chomping at the bit to explore this whole "morality in KMA" thing that you brought up. Why don't you post whatever it is that's on your mind instead of trying to swerve the current discussions into something that is more liking to your taste? I think there's enough bandwidth for what you want to talk about along with all the other stuff. If anybody cares, I'm sure they'll respond. That's been my experience here...but experiences vary (much like opinions and shoe sizes). And dat's all I gots ta say bout dat. Craig "Mr. Sensitive" Stovall --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Martin, Patrick Marvin" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Kay-Lee-O-Kee Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:41:25 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dave, Perhaps the answer is here. I too heard the phrase and wondered what it meant. It sounded like "Color Ki" to me... http://www.hapkido.co.kr/eng/about/technic.htm Patrick Martin -----Original Message----- From: Dave Wilson [mailto:dlwilson@flash.net] Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 8:55 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Kay-Lee-O-Kee Does anyone know what the word Kay-Lee-O-Kee means? Our Hapkido Master uses this term in reference to hosinsool. Thanks. Dave Wilson 1st Dan HKD _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Ates, Michelle (ATESML)" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 16:37:39 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Christianity -Final Response Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net After this post I will once again lurk into the darkness but to address Mr. Sims comments. Yes I am fully aware this is a Korean Martial Arts Discussion group. I have been a member of the group for at least two years. I was not the individual that started the thread on Christianity and the martial arts. I was merely one of many persons sharing my feeling on the topic and for those persons who identify themselves like myself as a Christian....sharing my take and some of what my martial arts school is like. At no time was I ever trying to push my faith on another person. If anyone was offended I apologize, but I thought one of the reasons behind the message title was so that if a person could select what they would like to read. Some of your postings Mr. Sims have seemed out of place or in consistent with my instruction in the Korean martial Arts (Tang Soo Do to be specific) however I do not judge just thank you for being nice enough to share your experience in the Korean Martial Arts. If you would care to discuss anything further feel free to email me at one of the addresses below. It to the darkness I shall now return. Michelle L. Ates Rulivin4him@yahoo.com michelleates@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: MiriSara@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 16:39:41 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Pregnancy and Martial Arts Training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I started training in Chung Do Kwan Tae Kwon Do well after my children were born, but I did work out during both pregnancies (weight training, cardio, etc.) The best advice is to consult with your OB/GYN. But, most doctors don't have a clue about exercise and nutrition. Ask your OB/GYN if he/she could consult with a colleague who has studied a martial art. That person could give you the best advice. As for myself, I am an RN. When I learned I was pregnant with my first child, almost 14 years ago, there was very little research data about exercise during pregnancy. I did my own research, and modified my routine according to my findings. Talk with your head instructor. If your doctor approves, you should be able to stretch out with the class (but don't lay flat on your back after the first trimester). As for the rest of class, that is for you and your doctor to decide. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest