Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 15:06:06 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #458 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Mr. Pellegrini (Ray Terry) 2. RE: Sword Stuff (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 3. Re: Mr. Pellegrini (Tom Kennelly) 4. RE: Religion Stuff (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 5. Re: Mr. Pellegrini (Ray Terry) 6. Weight loss, speed, and high kicks (TeachingInChina@aol.com) 7. The need for speed (Chris Hamilton) 8. Back to the Ki (Stovall, Craig) 9. Need for speed clarification (Chris Hamilton) 10. Re: Mst. Pelligrini (J T) 11. John Pelligrini (rich hodder) 12. RE: Weight loss, speed, and high kicks (Wallace, John) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 06:48:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Mr. Pellegrini Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > There was a huge write-up about Grandmaster John Pellegrini in Taekwondo > Times Magazine within the last two months. When you get to the part about how he is the father of hapkido in the US, ummm, well, time to move on to the next article in that issue... :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 09:07:43 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Sword Stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Folks: As part of my on-going research into Korean martial arts and martial science I am always on the loo-out for in-put regarding material I have come across. For the Hapkido people who train in traditional swordsmanship, and more especially for the Kumdo people (most especially for the HAIDONG KUMDO people) I would be very interested to hear some feedback on the following exerpt. "......The second largest group dedicated to study of the Korean sword are the Haidong Kumdo organizations. This must be spoken of in the plural as the original organization underwent a schizm early in its development. However, Yeong Wook Kang states that Haidong Kundos' technique as well as its philosophy was passed down to the present practitioners though Seung-San Dae Sun-Sa, a Buddhist priest. In 1962 WHDGF President Kim Jeong-ho began training with his master, a monk called Jang Paek-san. He opened the first Hai Dong Gumdo training hall in Anyang in Kyungki province in July of 1982 and in April of 1983 the Hai Dong Gumdo Association established with main office in Seocho-gu, Seoul. The bulk of the material for this study is derived from Gicheon, a monastic art and Shimgumdo, a style developed from a "heavenly vision" to the monk Kim Chang Sik. Both of these entities admit to teaching the originators of HDGD then state that HDGD is not derived from their respective organizations. There is also the matter of Han Il Na, president of the Korea Hae Dong Kumdo Association who is reported to have been teaching this form since opening his school in 1975. Yeong Wook Kang, executive director and vice-president for the organization is reported to have opened a second training hall in 1988. In 1986 the HDGD headquarters moved to Kangnam-gu, Seoul and in May of 1989 Hai Dong Gumdo was registered as a Social Organization. In January 1996 the headquarter moved to Sungnam in Kyungki province where, in November of that year the World Hai Dong Gumdo Federation was incorporated. Since 1996, branches of the WHDGDA have opened in a variety of countries including the United States, Canada, China, France, Germany, Spain, Australia, Mexico and Japan. Currently there are more than 300 dojangs and 2000 schools and companies teach Hai Dong Gumdo in Korea. 500 dojangs have spread internationally. ......" Any and all comments would be appreciated. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Tom Kennelly" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Mr. Pellegrini Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 10:41:31 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The complete sentence was: "He was not the first, nor the only pioneer, but he is definitely the father of modern Hapkido in the United States" I bring this up to differentiate a few important points to clarify the statement: 1. Notice the word modern in the sentence.. This makes the statement and less dramatic than referenced below. 2. The way the sentence is written it appears to be the opinion of the author since it is not a direct quote from GM P. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Terry" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 9:48 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Mr. Pellegrini > There was a huge write-up about Grandmaster John Pellegrini in Taekwondo > Times Magazine within the last two months. When you get to the part about how he is the father of hapkido in the US, ummm, well, time to move on to the next article in that issue... :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 09:34:32 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Religion Stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Mark: "....Also I believe we will be held accountable if we lead people astray as well, as the example of the deacon who suggested me to read some books that went totally against the Christian view of man. So we must be careful....." Thank you for your thoughts. I actually read them through a couple of times. Unless I miss my guess there will be a number of KMA practitioners who will be nodding knowingly as they read your words. I think I was hoping that perhaps there was some way to get around this whole issue but perhaps not. Its not that I object to your dichotomy that identifies people as "believers" and by extension, "non-believers". Nor do I take special umbrage at you identifying KMA as some sort of activity which should reasonably have a beginning and an end ("when is enough, enough?"). Perhaps what I object to the most is the manner in which you blame KMA for not adjusting itself to your belief system, life-style and expectations. Its is a well known dynamic in the Martial arts that it takes a lot of effort to incoporate it smoothly into ones' life, and just treating it like any other sport won't do it. And the fact that most people pursue MA in a culture in which it is not an integral part of the cultures origins just make it that much more difficult. My rejoinder to this is "tough-- deal with it." In my own life I must routinely negotiate with my wife, students and work to make room for KMA as an integral part of my lifestyle. Its not unlike avoiding alcohol at social events, making time twice a day for prayer and meditation, or distancing myself from the constant barrage of sexually-oriented material in our media. What am I going to do, blame the entire country because I have to work harder at my chosen belief system? Taking away from the various parts of your life shouldn't be the answer--- but it is. Its a choice you made when you started training in MA and now you are expected to deal with the consequences on a daily basis. Sorry 'bout that. MA didn't do that. You did that. I agree wholeheartedly with your belief that MA is self-centered. So are businesses and workplaces, children, wives, churches and anything else that makes demands on you. You job is to prioritize and all the whining in the world about what a pain it is won't change that. You Faith is suppose to give you the strength of character to do that. If its not, once again the problem is yours and not the MA. I will also close by saying that yes, we will probably all stand before God one day. I have no idea what will happen when that day comes. I should share with you a deep-seated fear that I have harbored for a number of years now, though. In my youth I was addicted to KFC. As I grow older I wonder what the consequences of my actions will be should I die and wakeup in Judgement to find that God is actually a Bantam rooster. Best Wishes, --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Mr. Pellegrini To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 08:02:32 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I bring this up to differentiate a few important points to clarify the > statement: > 1. Notice the word modern in the sentence.. This makes the statement and > less dramatic than referenced below. But still highly inaccurate. > 2. The way the sentence is written it appears to be the opinion of the > author since it is not a direct quote from GM P. Yep, the author was one of Mr. P's followers. IMHO, the article was a complete joke. Please note the IMHO... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: TeachingInChina@aol.com Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 11:04:22 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Weight loss, speed, and high kicks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To the list: I have a 3 part question that I need assistance on. I would like to know if losing more weight would help in my high kicks and speed. I am in the process of losing more weight. I started TKD 1 year ago and right now I am a yellow belt. I lost a lot of weight, and have a way to go. I noticed that I am having a hard time with high kicks. I try to do my kicks very high when requested but most of the time if I do a spinning kick I end up falling down. It is hard to keep balance also. Speed-When sparring I notice that the smaller students are faster when it comes to response. What I mean is that I can strike and block my opponent but it seems they come back faster than I do. Is this because I need to lose more weight and get into better condition? I take vitamins, exercise twice a week and train at the Dojo three times per week. I would like to become a faster, more focused martial artist without a lot of injuries. As far as my stamina, it is pretty good. I pace myself and try to use the proper breathing techniques that I am taught. What else can I do to be faster and have more precise high kicks? Thanks Landa TKD 7thYellow Belt --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Chris Hamilton" To: Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 10:11:04 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] The need for speed Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> Well said Bruce. Obviously due to our similarities with Hapkido, I find the same is true with Hanmudo. I find it is quite easy to thwart the technique of those who attempt to use brute strength and speed and the expense of sound technique. Although it may be frustrating, and perhaps embarrasing to the student performing the technique, I beleive in the long run they are better served, if their goal is self defense. When I teach a technique, I try to use the least power, and speed as is necessary to make that technique effective. Youth is fleeting, as is the ability to generate speed and power, so exploitation of body mechanics and physics is essential to good self defense. I also think if you are overly compliant your doing yourself, and your partner a disservice. I make it a habit not to take a fall for anyone unless their technique is compelling enough to warrant the response. This doesn't make me the most popular partner to work with, but what the hay. I find it very disturbing when your partner goes flying through the air, or collapses in a heap before the technique is even set in. Showmanship has it's place, but it's not in the dojang. Keep it on the silver screen. Chris H. Hanmudo --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 10:54:05 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Back to the Ki Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mark wrote, <<>> Well, it's interesting that you should mention this. Was the instructor at that seminar Ajarn Chai? The reason I ask is because anybody who has been to see Chai knows that he loves doing tricks during his seminars. Some of these are physical tricks that are a hallmark to his superb conditioning. Others are a combination of physical ability and psychological suggestion (like that one where he grabs the paper before you can touch his hand). I also saw him do a similar trick as you described at a seminar about 5 to 6 years ago in Memphis, TN. It always seems like when you hear these stories that the trick was done "on a friend". In this case, I indeed saw him do this to a guy that trained at my school, and who had never seen Chai before in his life. Basically, he had my friend stand and stare at a point on the wall in front of him. Chai would then go through the whole "rub down" routine, and then cause my friend to move in various directions without touching him, but by just moving his hands in the air while he stood behind him. Well, of course everybody was just blown away, and the assumption is that Chai must be playing with the guy's "chi" or something. Well, Chai is a pretty down to earth guy, and afterwards he explains to everybody that it's just a trick of mental suggestion. In his own words, "I didn't do anything to him...he did it to himself". The purpose is to illustrate the incredible power of the mind because Chai is a big proponent of "believing in yourself" and such. Now, do I understand all of the mechanics behind this kind of stuff? No, but if Chai says it's just a trick then I believe it's just a trick (he'd fill more seminars by claiming to be a chi master). And if Chai can do tricks like that, then it's possible that others can do the same thing. Unfortunately, not everbody is as forthright as Ajarn Chai, and more than a few folks do these types of things under the auspices of chi, empty force, energy manipulation, etc. There's a kung-fu "Grandmaster" by the name of Rich Mooney who goes around the country doing these same kinds of tricks. The difference is I think that's about ALL he shows at his seminars. People line up by the droves to see this stuff. And then you've got the Rod Sachornoski's of the world. You know...the Juko-Kai people who go around and let people punch them in the throat and kick them in the groin with full power? Supposedly, they're protected from injury by their "combat ki" training. Cripes people!!! Is there anybody out there who doesn't know how they do that stuff? Just ask, and I'll tell you how it's done. So, I appreciate all of these tricks that people espouse as evidence of ki, but I'm afraid that's all they are...tricks. Some people see evidence of ki...I see carnival tricks. Sorry. Craig "I can use my chi to guess your weight" Stovall --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Chris Hamilton" To: Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 10:52:23 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Need for speed clarification Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> After reading Michael's response, I think I should clarify that speed and power are good things, but they should be developed only after the base of the technique is adequately understood. When practiced slowly, I still find myself discovering subtle nuances in yellow belt sonmoksul techniques that enhance their effectiveness. Obviously if you can produce the desired effect with a minimum effort, speed and power can only accentuate and intensify the technique, and when I have a partner who is equal to the task, we throw fast and hard. Chris H. Hanmudo --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 09:06:54 -0700 (PDT) From: J T To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Mst. Pelligrini Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Perhaps I missed it in the article, but I did not see anything about his HKD background. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "rich hodder" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:39:08 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] John Pelligrini Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net only one question come to mind...."why?" if you have extra money to get rid of please send it to some deserving charity insteadGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Wallace, John" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Weight loss, speed, and high kicks Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 11:53:45 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Landa: Congratulations on your progress! Committing to a martial art in the way you've chosen to do is a profound alteration in your life. That said, you need to cultivate patience in yourself when it comes to skill development. Kicking high takes more than increasing your flexibility - it takes a lot of strength development in unfamiliar muscle groups, particularly in your hips, low back and abdomen. It also takes a lot of practice - the balance challenge you're asking of your body is probably the most demanding adaptation you've encountered since learning to walk! You're projecting a large percentage of your body weight (the kicking leg) through space at high speed at unfamiliar angles and with half of the support you're used to (only one leg to stand on!) Add to that the disorientation from a spinning motion, and its no wonder you're finding yourself on the ground! The best thing I've found for increasing kicking height (besides adequate flexibility through the hips) is "tension" kicks - moving your body throught the motions of the kick at extremely slow speed, while maintaining good form and pushing yourself to keep the kick as high as you can. This is an exercise that is almost universally loathed by my fellow students, as its agonizing, boring, and seemingly pointless - until you notice over time that you're kicking higher. Its part of achieving "dynamic flexibility" - as opposed to static flexibility, which you get by performing the more familiar stretching exercises. Being wonderfully limber doesn't necessarily help with kicking high, as you need the strength and motor skills to get your leg up there - and going in the direction you want. I don't know that losing more weight (which may be desireable for other reasons) will help you with kicking high. Unless your stomach or thighs are physically getting in the way of getting your leg up. I presume by speed you're referring to the quickness with which you're able to go from a stance to a strike, as opposed to ability to move around the mat. Clearly, losing excess weight will help with moving from point a to point b quickly (particularly with abrupt direction changes and so on). Going quickly from stance to strike is more likely something that will simply improve with practice. You'll learn to read what your opponent is doing, with experience, and how to respond appropriately. Other things you can do is to consciously work on getting your strikes out and back as quickly as possible when you're doing pad drills, shadow-sparring, and the like. It sounds like you're on the road to your goals. Remember though that the physical parts you seem to have a good grasp on are only part of the equation. Pacing yourself, allowing minor injuries to heal, having realistic and attainable goals, and consciously working to enjoy yourself at the stage you're at NOW are all vital steps towards preventing the real enemy of your training - burnout. Good luck, and keep your spirit up! -John W. I Dan, TKD Fremont, CA -----Original Message----- From: TeachingInChina@aol.com [mailto:TeachingInChina@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 8:04 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Weight loss, speed, and high kicks To the list: I have a 3 part question that I need assistance on. I would like to know if losing more weight would help in my high kicks and speed. I am in the process of losing more weight. I started TKD 1 year ago and right now I am a yellow belt. I lost a lot of weight, and have a way to go. I noticed that I am having a hard time with high kicks. I try to do my kicks very high when requested but most of the time if I do a spinning kick I end up falling down. It is hard to keep balance also. Speed-When sparring I notice that the smaller students are faster when it comes to response. What I mean is that I can strike and block my opponent but it seems they come back faster than I do. Is this because I need to lose more weight and get into better condition? I take vitamins, exercise twice a week and train at the Dojo three times per week. I would like to become a faster, more focused martial artist without a lot of injuries. As far as my stamina, it is pretty good. I pace myself and try to use the proper breathing techniques that I am taught. What else can I do to be faster and have more precise high kicks? Thanks Landa TKD 7thYellow Belt _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.386 / Virus Database: 218 - Release Date: 9/9/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.386 / Virus Database: 218 - Release Date: 9/9/2002 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest