Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 21:21:05 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #459 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Speed not a factor in Hapki/Aiki execution ? (Beungood@aol.com) 2. Re: Speed and Power (Lee Fisk) 3. Re: JP (Beungood@aol.com) 4. Re:more P (Beungood@aol.com) 5. Hey Bruce, Ray, Mike T... (Charles Veuleman) 6. Re: The Father of modern Hapkido (earthlink) 7. Bruce's sword question (A. Boyd) 8. Pelligrini (michael tomlinson) 9. need for speed (michael tomlinson) 10. Re: Re: The Father of modern Hapkido (Ray Terry) 11. Re: Mr. Pellegrini (Laurie S.) 12. Re: Weight loss, speed, and high kicks (Kenneth W. Legendre) 13. World hapkido org? (Bryce Burrows) 14. Re: World hapkido org? (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 15:59:52 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, zachman@prodigy.net, hkd.hw@verizon.net, rjw162@attbi.com, jmackern@juno.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Speed not a factor in Hapki/Aiki execution ? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 9/25/02 6:05:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Despite > whatever you might see in the practice of others, neither Hapkido, nor its > Japanese cousin, Aikido, require speed to make the techniques work > effectively. In fact, it has been my expereince that speed actually > detracts from the effectiveness of the technique as at higher levels of > performance one seeks to work in concert with the natural responses of > ones' > partner to achieve ones' goals. The effectiveness of Hapkido techniques is > not a function of speed but one of accuracy and precision and individuals > who MUST use speed or power to make techniques work are simply > demonstrating > the need for more polish in what they do. I disagree with this statement. Speed is not required to learn these arts basics. But speed is essential in the combat application along with timing,proper body movement and precise application of grabbing. Without speed you subject yourself to having someone apply a counter jointlock or unlocking a lock you put someone into. Speed is a bicomponent along with all the other factors in the execution of technique. my own two cents. Jack O --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Lee Fisk" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 20:05:28 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Speed and Power Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Galeos, I too am third Gup in HKD (albeit an advanced aged 3rd gup at age 50). I have noticed that speed and power work depends a lot on who is practicing at the school I attend. Most of the upper belts use more speed and power in their techniques. At 50 I have to keep it slow if my technique needs work because I don't want to risk injury and being sidelined; my recovery is a bit slower then a 20 year olds. I believe that much of limit of speed and power which can be exerted depends on the limits of those practicing. My recommendation is to look for some one with whom you feel comfortable and who feels comfortable with you. Work with them at the most agressive level with which you both feel comfortable. Best regards, Lee Fisk (Tucson, AZ) >From: Galeos Antonis >To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" > >Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 16:16:10 +0300 >Subject: [The_Dojang] Speed and Power >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >I am practicing Hapkido(World Hapkido Federation) and I am at 3 Gup >Since the techniques of Hapkido are very dangerous for an opponent if >performed at full speed and power , we practicing these techniques at very >low speed and mild power always pay attention not to hurt our opponent. How >can I increase my power and speed in these techniques then ? without >hurting my copracticers. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 16:07:39 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: JP Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 9/25/02 9:51:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > There was a huge write-up about Grandmaster John Pellegrini in Taekwondo > Times Magazine within the last two months. Do you also beleive in Santa Clause? --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 16:08:53 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:more P Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 9/25/02 9:51:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > I am looking for information on Mst. Peligrini and his > martial art background in HKD. Anyone out there know > of it?>>>>> > > Did you look under "correspondence schools?" > > > > how bout fiction or comedy? --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 14:40:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Veuleman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hey Bruce, Ray, Mike T... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey Guys, Don't forget about us funny CDK TKD people over here in Louisiana. We don't wear the ho....chest protectors, but I know a WTF gal that does, she is all about it (and should be since that is what their rules say they do). I feel like instead of making a hard kick not hurt, they more or less dispurse the shock to a bigger region, with less pain overall, but not take away pain altogether. My school does not use the chest protectors for sparring, for a few reasons, 1, no body else in our system does, and 2, they are not used in our tournaments. I am sure there are all kinds of other reasons, but I would just rather be used to blocking than receiving. Sounds like Mike T is all about some throwing buddies around in the Doj o/ang, I agree. When students sign up, they know they will be hit at some time, that is not to say make them human mops for the floor, but if they are advanced belts, put it on them!! Some students do like a little more contact than others, you just have to keep you eye out for them and take advantage of that opportunity to train hard! BTW, Nathan said my post about the T-shirts and stuff sounded joking, I just want to confirm that I am doing screen printing. I just pulled my first "Official" order of shirts, and I gotta say I am pretty proud with how they came out. I have done many orders before this, just this was my first. I hope some of you consider using me for any shirts, gear bags, etc. YITMA (oh know, another phrase turned into letters!!) Charlie Veuleman ===== ------------------------------------- L. Charles Veuleman Natchitoches Karate Institute 204 Rapides Drive Natchitoches, LA 71457 318-356-7727 http://www.bluewavekarate.com ------------------------------------- --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "earthlink" To: Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 18:13:01 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The Father of modern Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Am I wrong in thinking that GM Choi, Yong Sool brought hapkido to the US? I thought that Bong Soo Han, Jung Hwan Park, Ji Han Jae, and He Yong Kim were the seniors in the US? Eric --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 19:17:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "A. Boyd" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Bruce's sword question Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My first comment upon reding that is to wonder who has been plagiarizing my stuff... The underlying organization and many of the phrases are pretty much direct quotes of material I have written on my site and in other forums. Of course it doesn't seem to have been put together quite correctly. My second response is, what is/are your question(s) Bruce? Is HDGD the second largest group of sword students in Korea? Yes. Is straight kumdo the largest group? Yes. Is kumdo the same as kendo? Yes, with Korean terminology and the inclusion of a form similar to Bonguk Gumbub in the muyedobotong'ji. There are about 20 groups of kumdo in Korea. The largest of these, (Daehan Kumdo) is directly associated with Japan. Are there multiple federations of HDGD? Yes. The largest two run by the 2 founders. Kim Jeong Ho is the president of the parent group(Daehan Haidong Gumdo). Na Han Il(a famous Korean actor) is involved with what remains of the second(you guessed it, Hanguk Haedong Kumdo). It has recently joined with an imitating group and taken the name Haedong Dobub. Some schools are trying to maintain the Hanguk HDK Federation which I guess makes it another split. Will there be more splits in the future? I will be surprised if there aren't. Are gichun mu and shimgumdo a part of the founders' training history? Yes. It's all quite different now but you can see where it came from. The founders tried to make a logical training system which could bring out all the unconnected material they had learned. Are these the correct numbers for the dojangs? No. The number changes each time I see it. Do you have any comments? Yes. I am disappointed that the HDGD Federation has split as it shows a lack of discipline and enlightenment on both the parts of the splitters and the management of each preceding Federation. I am concerned because the logic of the training progression and why it was organized the way it was should be obvious to all yet, certain low ranking masters see fit to alter which elements of the curriculum they will teach or worse, decide to run off and start their own martial art with but a fraction of the understanding of their own teacher let alone their teacher's teacher. I am proud to be a student of Haidong Gumdo and still look forward to practice every day. I can't believe how much I've learned and what changes the art has enabled me to produce in my life. Is this the stuff you wanted to hear, Bruce? I could talk about HDGD for days if people would just stop binding me in a closet with duct tape on my mouth... Ha ha! ===== Anthony Boyd: Swordsman and English Teacher www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 23:27:13 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Pelligrini Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Someone writes: "He was not the first, nor the only pioneer, but he is definitely the father of modern Hapkido in the United States" I totally agree with this statement 100 percent, it is very true, he is exactly that,, in our world of "modern Hapkido" we have people who actually train long enough to be a 2nd or 3rd dan in total amount of time,, jump from one organization to the other to pick up quick ranking,, totally disregard everything and everyone that has helped them along their short way up the ladder,, start a brand new organization with their limited knowledge of Hapkido techniques, state that they are a scientific leader of Hapkido, promote themselves to the grand pupah Hapkido stage,, bilk thousands of unsuspecting people into believing their altered history and rank,, sell numerous video's that are an amalgamation of chopped up Hapkido techniques from the American Hapkido Assoc. and the World Hapkido Fed. which consists of knowledge slightly above the level of blue belt,, tell everyone that it is a "new" way of looking at Hapkido, make tons of money selling videos t-shirts, black belt ranking and possibly potato salad at the big yearly awards ceremony, make enough money to buy yourself into more "established" organizations giving yourself "new" credibility to the unsuspecting public,, allign yourself with many martial arts grandmasters thru the use of nothing more than a 35 millimeter camera,, get yourself on numerous covers of Martial Arts Magazines demonstrating yellow to blue belt level Hapkido techniques that are actually photographed showing your ignorance of the actual basic stances and body postions that accompany these techniques, and if anyone questions your credentials or ability you can pass it off as petty jealousy by those who are "envious" of your success,, and all the time feeling good about your accomplishments, I know quite a few "modern" Hapkido pioneers who fit this pattern,,but yeah,, from what I have seen of most "modern" Hapkido I would say without a doubt that Mr. Pelligrini is the "leading" pioneer of "modern Hapkido". Michael Tomlinson World Sin Moo Hapkido _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 23:36:42 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] need for speed Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Let me clarify my last post on this subject,, I agree with Chris and Bruce in the fact that you have to learn the Hapkido techniques slowly at first and you should never pick up your speed until you have got the basics down pat,,notice I didn't say power,, I believe power is a by product of combining good basics with speed,, if you harmonize those two aspects then boy does your technique "become" powerful.. if you are trying to muscle the technique then you are doing it wrong.. Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: The Father of modern Hapkido To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 17:56:46 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Am I wrong in thinking that GM Choi, Yong Sool brought hapkido to the US? Yes, you are wrong... :) Choi Yong-sool did not bring Hapkido to the US. His students and students of this students did. > I thought that Bong Soo Han, Jung Hwan Park, Ji Han Jae, and He Yong Kim were > the seniors in the US? In terms of years old, Gm Han is senior. In terms of rank, time in rank, etc, Gm Ji is senior. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Laurie S." To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 23:55:36 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Mr. Pellegrini Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, Can you give me more info on him? I was thinking about joining his school when I move to NC in a couple of years. The one thing I noticed about the article, he didn't even mention ever "studying" Hapkido? Is this true? Laurie TKD green belt (5th gup TSD) _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 23:14:42 -0500 From: "Kenneth W. Legendre" To: Dojang Digest Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Weight loss, speed, and high kicks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello All Landa. First off I want to congratulate you on losing the weight that you have, and encourage you to keep striving for your goal. Second weigt can be a limiting factor with speed, but unless you are extremely over-weight it is probably not. There are many things that influence the speed of your kicks. Muscle composition, muscle memory, technique... The list is actually pretty long. Keep practicing and speed will come, but bear in mind that speed is not everything. Timing is the most important thing you can learn in martial arts. If your in the right place at the right time there is nothing your opponent can do to defend him/herself. Just as a case in point a couple of weekends ago I was at a small tournament and was able to beat 2 different competitors who were both quicker than I. I just had to make sure that I was where I needed to be to score the points when I needed to be there. Balance is something that you have to work on. Think of your foot as a tripod. Y <--- diagram at one point is the little toe, at another is the big toe, and at the third is the heel. Spread those toes apart and make the base of your tripod larger. Also keep a slight bend in your knee. this helps you have some motion in your leg. If you stand on one leg with your leg locked out and try and move your knee it moves very little. If you put just a slight bend in the knee you are able to move that knee around quite a bit which helps for balance. An exercise that I do is to practice slow kicks about 5 seconds long. They dont have to be very high, knee level is fine, but you do need to practice correct form when you kick. This is something that I used to do quite a bit around the house and even in line at the grocery store. Get some funny looks there though. : ) High kicks are muscle related as much as flexibility related. I cant even come close to going all the way down in the side splits, but I can kick someone my heights head. Do you really need to kick that high though? If your interested in the competition scene then yes. (Spend an hour a day stretching) If not, like most of us, a kick to the knee is much more effective than a kick to the head and a whole lot safer in a self defense situation. If you have the flexibility then start weight training for the kicking muscles, if you dont have the flexibility then I would recommend a good strecting routine. There has been lots of discussion about streching on the list and you can look up recommendations in the archives. Brad Appleton's FAQ and Thomas Kurz are 2 that I can think of off the top of my head. Check them out. Good Luck Ken Legendre innae@netexpress.net 3rd Dan TKD 4th Gup HKD --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 13:18:27 +1000 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Bryce Burrows Subject: [The_Dojang] World hapkido org? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Apparently Ji Han Jae is off to korea next week to kick off the World hapkido org or some such i was wondering if anyone had any information about this organisation? regards -- Bryce Burrows Try Publitor 2, making Pubmed easy. http://www.sohocode.com/publitor/ [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature] --__--__-- Message: 14 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] World hapkido org? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 21:19:47 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Apparently Ji Han Jae is off to korea next week to kick off the World > hapkido org or some such > i was wondering if anyone had any information about this organisation? Yes. Gm Ji is off shortly for a meeting to be held in Seoul, as I recall, on October 5. I believe several list members will be present (Rick, Hal, Geoff, and ??) and will hopefully keep us in the loop. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest