Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 08:59:03 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #461 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: RE: Come again? (Ray Terry) 2. RE: Modern Hapkido??? (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 3. Re: Attacking JP Again? (Ray Terry) 4. TSD Hogu :-) (Charles Richards) 5. Re: TSD Hogu :-) (Ray Terry) 6. Ki Armor (Stovall, Craig) 7. Re: John P (Michael Rowe) 8. Re: Mst. P (J T) 9. TKDTimes (J T) 10. GM P it is not the techniques it's the man in question (J T) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Come again? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 07:09:45 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Thanks for your response, but now color me "confused". Am I to understand > that the use of protective equiptment is not consistent throughout TKD/TSD > play? The hoju came about during the development of Olympic TKD sparring. This was the breakthru concept that diffed it from the Karate-ish styles, i.e. that this stuff could be practiced against an opponent at full speed and full power. Some of styles closer to Karate's approach pad the weapons (hands and feet). In TKD (Kukki-TKD) we pad the target (chest and head). Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 08:45:28 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Modern Hapkido??? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Michael: ".....I totally agree with this statement 100 percent, it is very true, he is exactly that,, in our world of "modern Hapkido"...." Yes, I agree wholeheartedly as well, I am just not sure what it is that I am agreeing with. Remember how, sometime back, folks were asking what "traditional Hapkido" is? Well, now I find myself asking "what is 'modern hapkido'"? By his own admission, Pelligrini does not teach "hapkido" but lets put that to one side for a minute. What exactly is "modern hapkido"? And though I am initially responding to Michaels' lead, please don't lets' have everybody feel shy about responding here. The people in the Japanese and Okinawan Karate traditions have been trying to sort this out for a while now with there own arts. Is "modern hapkido" a function of time frame, philosophy, technique, affiliation or what? Can I call anything Hapkido? Quite recently (in the last 10 years) a branch of the Aikido community has developed a form of Aikido which focuses on choreography and rythmn. They still call it "Aikido". Do I still practice Hapkido if I incorporate materials from various styles and arts from other countries and cultures? Anyone? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Attacking JP Again? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 07:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I can say very simply that the skills that I have learned under GM John > Pellegrini have saved my life in real life street situations, they have been > effective to the students that I have taught them to. This says it all. What > we teach works. Is it the Hapkido according to anyone else? Probablly not, but > it is Effective Self-Defense based on the hapkido matrix. The same could be said about high school wrestling or high school football. Should we then consider creating a new system named High-School Hapkido? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 07:39:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] TSD Hogu :-) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> Don't forget about us funny CDK TKD people over here in Louisiana. We don't wear the ho....chest protectors, <> Hey Charlie! We just got some Hogu in...We compete with the AAU since we are not affilliated with WTF or USTU or any other NGB (except USKMAF)... Since I took first in point sparring at nationals in my age and weight (grey beard fat guys), I figured I better challenge myself by doing the Olympic Style sparring...besides I have two 6yo and one adult that would like to do it also.... I must admit it does feel odd as a TSD/MDK player putting on a Hogu.... Times change :-) YITMA M.C. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] TSD Hogu :-) To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 07:53:46 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I must admit it does feel odd as a TSD/MDK player putting on a Hogu.... > Times change :-) Wow! I didn't realize they came in sizes that large... :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 10:22:38 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Ki Armor Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Disclaimer: If you try this stuff and end up in the emergency room with a ruptured scrotum or busted trachea...then that's your own fault. Yes, these are tricks, but much like skydiving if you don't know what you're doing the consequences can be dire. The Juko-kai people are famous for taking punches and strikes to their throats. Of course, this looks really neat to audiences because if you've ever been hit in the throat you know it's not a fun experience. However, if you know it's coming and you know what to do with your body then you can absorb all kinds of blows to this area. The obvious danger is trauma to the cartilage that comprises the trachea, but that's easy to fix. Touch your fingers to your adam's apple, and then take a good hard swallow. You should have felt the apple recede backwards into your throat. If you hold this swallow it will just stay there until you get tired or run out of breath. The second part of the trick is in knowing how to flex the muscles at the front of the neck. It's no different than tightening your stomach and having your partner slam a medicine ball into your belly. You can see the Juko-kai people do this because most of them have a very pronounced frown on their face as they prepare to absorb the strike. If it were "ki" doing the trick, then shouldn't they be able to remain very calm and serene? The most obvious part of the trick is that they are typically absorbing blows that result in the energy being spread over a large area such as forearm strikes, and ridgehand strikes. The other famous trick is taking full power kicks to the groin. Again, it's very impressive looking. If you've spent any time around a frat house then you know that a little backhand swat to the family jewels can put you to your knees. Just like the first trick, it's mostly about positioning the body, and the way in which you are being allowed to kick them. If you've ever spent any time studying some of the old Okinawan and Chinese forms then you've probably seen or done a peculiar little pelvic thrust movement that is placed throughout some of the patterns. This hip movement involves tucking the buttocks under while at the same time rotating the bottom of your hips forward and upward as much as possible. This pelvic thrust serves to pull the testicles forward and upward. Combine, this with flexed buttocks, and some good tight underwear and you have just taken your manhood out of the line of fire of an upward soccer style kick between your legs. The way that you are being kicked is also key. The Juko-kai people always take soccer style kicks with the ankle, or instep as the contacting surface and the kick delivered along a near vertical trajectory. Again, we have a wide surface area of contact that is being caught mainly by the flexed buttocks, and the remainder of the energy absorbed between the pelvic region between the rectum and the scrotum (sorry, but there's no easy way to describe this). Now, to be fair, the testicles do absorb some of the impact, but it's not like they're taking the full force of the kick (like they want you to think). Combine this with the fact that the testicles can be desensitized to blunt force trauma over a period of time (although your urologist would not recommend it). My challenge to the Juko-kai people (and anybody else) would be this. 1. If you can place ki in your throat and groin to protect you...then surely you can place it on your chin. Give me one good shot on the button, and let's see you use your magic to overcome the laws of physics and anatomy. Of course, their out on that one is the old adage that "you can't put chi in the chin". How convenient. 2. So, you can take kicks to the groin while your ki protects you, eh? Fine. Just let me choose the type of kick, the angle of the kick, and the type of shoes I'm wearing. You never see these guys taking a savate style "fouette" straight into the groin while the guy is wearing cowboy boots and striking with the toe. No sir, that would spoil the trick. Forget the groin...take one of those to the bladder and let me know how you ki feels in the morning. Those are the two most famous tricks that they do, but I've seen footage of them taking kicks and punches all over their body. Absorbing full power side kicks to the chest and stomach really doesn't impress me. With the right conditioning and mental attitude it's not much of a test, and it surely isn't any evidence of ki or chi. Boxers train to take tremendous amounts of punishment to their abdomens...an area that would be considered most people's "soft spot". But I don't see anybody claiming that it's the result of internal energy. Houdini went around taking blows to the stomach in addition to his famous escapes. I guess Houdini had strong chi. Now for those Juko-kai lurkers out there that think I'm talking out of my backside let me end by saying that I confirmed the methodology of these tricks with a Judo player in the Michigan area who at one time was an up-and-comer in the Juko-kai organization (until he got tired of the BS). Please, please, please do not run down to the studio and let your buddies start kicking and punching on you. There are guys that make a living by eating light bulbs and drinking Windex...BUT YOU WOULDN'T DO THAT EITHER!!!!! Stick with the good hard training and leave the carnival tricks to those who need it as a crutch for their egos and pocketbooks. Craig "Crouching Tiger, Ruptured Marble Bag" Stovall --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Michael Rowe" To: Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 10:26:57 -0500 Organization: Dan Il Press Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: John P Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> Well since These magazine are planned about 6 months in advance, if not more. GM Choi will most likely be on a cover in the VERY near future with a tribute to him in it, I say this because TKDT has been very good to GM Choi in presenting his side of TKD. As for the teeth remark, I won't even reply. Michael Rowe www.danilpress.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 08:26:42 -0700 (PDT) From: J T To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Mst. P Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "The one thing I noticed about the article, he didn't even mention ever "studying" Hapkido? Is this true?" My point exactly!!! :) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 08:31:06 -0700 (PDT) From: J T To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] TKDTimes Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yes it is sad that they did not have Gen. Choi on the cover. I would also like to draw the attention to the fact that they did not even mention the death of GM Hwang Kee who passed away in July. I will go out on a limb here and say that if you are not WTF or do not pay a lot of money to TKDTimes for advertising, you will not be on the cover. Jeremy __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 08:43:01 -0700 (PDT) From: J T To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] GM P it is not the techniques it's the man in question Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mst. Rowe, I do not believe we are questioning about the the techniques that he teaches. From what I have heard and I have seen from one of his BB's is that the techniques are quite basic. Are they effective, of course, basic hapkido is effective as long as you have an effective fighter. What the main question is how he became a GM of HKD? I can, and have, taught basic techniques to the students in our TKD dojang. They are basic techniquesbut effective. They too have been street tested in a couple of situations that I have been in both here and in Korea (a story for another time. :) ) However, I do not, now will I ever claim, that I have modified HKD to be more effective. I simply used basic techniques. I do not believe this man to be a innovator or father of nothing. I do find him to be a shrewd marketer and he hit the perfect market area. I hold no animosity towards that...more power to him. However, to call himself a GM and to claim that he has innovated HKD, in my opinoin, is wrong. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest