Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 14:21:03 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #462 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Chest protectors (Ates, Michelle (ATESML)) 2. Korea Trip Questions (Ellen P) 3. Modern Hapkido (Randall Sexton) 4. Re: John Pellegrini (Michael Rowe) 5. Chi and Houdini (Travis Borneman) 6. Re: Modern Hapkido (Ray Terry) 7. Re: Re: John Pellegrini (Ray Terry) 8. John P and TKD Times (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 9. ki, religion and training (wild horse) 10. World hapkido org/GM Ji Trip to Korea (RDNHJMS@aol.com) 11. Martial Art Magazine Article (Brian Beach) 12. RE: TKD Times; Jeremy (Farral, Kim) 13. Re: World hapkido org/GM Ji Trip to Korea (Ray Terry) 14. Paternal assignment (Patrick L) 15. list slow (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Ates, Michelle (ATESML)" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 12:06:11 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Chest protectors Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net At my school (Tang Soo Do) we compete on the open circuit (NASKA and RSKC) and we don't wear chest protectors or hogu. To me they simply say kick me right here extra hard. Michelle L. Ates Michelle.Ates@uc.edu --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 09:27:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Ellen P To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Korea Trip Questions Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi all, I am considering organizing a trip to Korea for my TKD school and I was hoping that some of you would share your experiences setting this type of thing up - what worked, what didn't, good experiences or bad, etc. Or just anything you wanted to share with me and the list about your past trips (I noticed that some of you guys have annual Korea Trips for your school). Any info, resources, comments would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Ellen __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Randall Sexton" To: Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 11:42:02 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Modern Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >>>>Do I still practice Hapkido if I incorporate materials from various styles and arts from other countries and cultures? Anyone? Best Wishes, Bruce >>> I think most of us are aware that the majority of MAs have some of the same techniques. After all, there is only so many ways to bend a body part. The philosophy may be different, the footwork may be different, entering into and finishing the technique may be different, the way you train in the technique may be different. If I learn something from another style that says "bend your arm slightly more this way" and it makes the technique work better for me, then it's my "Hapkido" technique. It doesn't mean I have to change styles. And to those defending Master, I mean Mister P. If you are wondering why he is being bashed, perhaps you should compare him with other Masters, like Master West for example. I've never heard anyone bash him. Now let me think for a moment why this might be so! Randall Sexton www.laughinghara.com "Nothing is more important than the existence of what does not exist" John Hawes --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Michael Rowe" To: Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 11:53:55 -0500 Organization: Dan Il Press Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: John Pellegrini Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have been in this discussion wayyyyy tooo many times. Ray, High School wrestling is very effective, I have used it defend myself alot (I just do all the things the ref stops for being potentially dangerous and I do damage). However, High School Wrestling is not based on a Hapkido Matrix. Combat Hapkido is built upon the Hapkido matrix. GM In Sun Seo agrees and recognized Combat Hapkido as a legitamte branch of Hapkido. GM John Pellegrini started his Hapkido Training in seriousness in the 80's. He did join several organizations, this is not in dispute. He found he could not work with the realm of the organizations his was in so he moved, after many moves he decided to go in for himself. If you have a problem with his rank then take it up with GM Kwang Sik Myung who first promoted him to 5th Dan, take it up with the Kido Hae and GM In Sun Seo who has seen fit to recognize Combat Hapkido as a LEGITIMATE KWAN of Hapkido and to promote GM Pellegrini to 8th Dan. Looking in the back of Hapkido II by He-Young Kimm you'll find his credential certificates. GM Pellegrini hold the same rank under the Kukkiwon, has the same rank certificate from the Korea Ki Do Association, and has the same certificate of Grandmaster Status from the Ki DO Association from GM In Sun Seo. I have gone through the Hapkido II book by GM He-Young Kimm (which everyone agrees is qualified). While Combat hapkido does not include the Sword, bostaff, and fan techniques, nor the forms mentioned in this book. Additionaly Combat Hapkido does not advocate the HIGH level kicking. Only 25 techniques in the book up to 5th Dan (which is my rank in Combat Hapkido) are not included in the teaching of the ICHF. Additionally, the Knife work the ICHF teaches is a higher quality in our opinon being based on Arnis. There is A ground grappling component that is base on Brazillian Jujitsu. We there by offer a more indepth background to these areas. Combat Hapkido (Chon-tu Hapkido) is a branch of the same beast. Sin Moo Hapkido is a branch of the beast as well. Are they the same? No, if they were the same there would be no need for the different organizations. Do they have their place? Yes! My advice to all is to go to a ICHF Semiar in your area. GM Pellegrini travels the United States and shares his view on self-defense and Hapkido. After, going you may give an opinon. Without doing this your opinon is NOT based on fact but supposition. You want to discuss his technique, fine. Discuss his history, fine. Discuss his seminars, fine, But do it based on experience not heresay. Michael Rowe www.danilpress.com www.unitedmartialartsacademies.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Travis Borneman" To: Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 09:54:25 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Chi and Houdini Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Houdini went around taking blows to the stomach in addition to his famous escapes. I guess Houdini had strong chi. Correct me if i am wrong but wasn't it a punch that ruptured Houdini's appendix that killed him? --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Modern Hapkido To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 09:58:13 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > And to those defending Master, I mean Mister P. If you are wondering why he is > being bashed, perhaps you should compare him with other Masters, like Master > West for example. I've never heard anyone bash him. Now let me think for a > moment why this might be so! There is a rather chubby 1st Dan down Florida way that has had not so nice things to say about Gm West. But then that fact alone I guess speaks volumes about JR. :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: John Pellegrini To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 10:07:37 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Ray, High School wrestling is very effective, I have used it defend myself > alot (I just do all the things the ref stops for being potentially dangerous > and I do damage). However, High School Wrestling is not based on a Hapkido > Matrix. Combat Hapkido is built upon the Hapkido matrix. Takedowns. Arm bars. Throws. Nelsons. etc. That too could be a highly minimized HKD matrix, just like you-know-what... > GM John Pellegrini started his Hapkido Training in seriousness in the 80's. > He did join several organizations, this is not in dispute. He found he could > not work with the realm of the organizations his was in so he moved, after > many moves he decided to go in for himself. Ummm... > ... take it up with the Kido Hae and GM In > Sun Seo who has seen fit to recognize Combat Hapkido as a LEGITIMATE KWAN of > Hapkido and to promote GM Pellegrini to 8th Dan. Looking in the back of > Hapkido II by He-Young Kimm you'll find his credential certificates. GM > Pellegrini hold the same rank under the Kukkiwon, has the same rank > certificate from the Korea Ki Do Association, and has the same certificate > of Grandmaster Status from the Ki DO Association from GM In Sun Seo. I believe that is the World Ki Do Association, just up the road from me in the SF East Bay Area. -Not- the Korea Kidohwe. Ok, I'll shut up and let others jump in, if they wish. My thoughts are now fairly obvious. But this thread has about run its course. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 13:13:55 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] John P and TKD Times Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sorry Michael, but the posturing is a bit to much. I also hope your correct about the article... Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul <> --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "wild horse" To: "dojang digest" Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 18:48:06 +0100 Subject: [The_Dojang] ki, religion and training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To all. After reading the posts on ki and religion i still cant see how the two can relate? I don't understand how developing ki can be seen as a threat, as such, to religion. I dont know barely anything on ki so please excuse my naivity on the subject. The second thing i wish to ask about is this: I feel slightly intimidated by my master although he has given me no reason to feel so (apart from the fact that he is a 6th dan and i'm 6th kup). As a result i flinch an awful lot from him even though i know he won't hurt me. How can i stop this? It bothers me and i think it annoys him (kinda), as well. Am i the only one to do this or is it natural or what? All views welcome! Sorry for such stupid questions and thanks in advance. Wendy.Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: RDNHJMS@aol.com Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 14:37:37 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] World hapkido org/GM Ji Trip to Korea Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yes, GM Ji is going to Korea. Yes, there is a new Hapkido organization being formed there. There are several folks from the U.S., including Master Ken McKenzie, that will be going with him. Geoff Booth from "Down Unda" is also going to be there. We are all going to try to get together from training on 5 Oct. We will be doing a demonstration on 6 Oct, followed by work to establish the organization. GM Ji will also be conducting a seminar (I think around the 15th or 16th.) As far as I know, we will all be staying at the Seoul Olympic Parktel, which is where I believe we will be doing the demo. Not sure where the seminar will be. If you are in Korea, please stop by to say hello, watch the demo, take pleasure in the seminar, or work out with us. Hal, Geoff and I are not planning on a "Land of the Morning Calm Tour", and are there to train and help GM Ji, and the rest of the folks forming the organization, with anything they need. I look forward to spending some quality time on the mat with some old, and new friends. V/R, Rick Nabors --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 15:16:56 -0400 From: Brian Beach To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Martial Art Magazine Article Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Has anyone seen the October issue of " Martial Art - The Voice of Traditional Martial Arts" It has an article on the history of Kuk Sool Won. Its an interesting take on the History of KMAs. "Korean Martial arts, especially kuk sool Won, trace their roots to three distinct fighting arts: sah doh mu sool (tribal or family martial arts); Bool kyo mu sool ( buddhist martial arts ) and koong joong mu sool (royal court martial arts). The article dates the tribal martial arts back to 2000 B.C(E)!!! The article then moves to the Iron Age 400 B.C.(E) where "Several techniques of that era are seen today in modern kuk sool, such as too suk sool ( stone throwing) and sa lak sool (throwing sand into the enemies eyes to distract him). Now I know Kuk Sool Won wants to downplay the Japanese/Chinese influence but this IMO a bit extreme. Its possible I suppose but I find it like the joke about a thermos (keeps hot things hot and cold things cold) - "how does it know?" I thought I started studying KMAs 6 years ago but apparently I've been practicing since nursery school - go figure. B --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Farral, Kim" To: 'Dojang' Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 16:10:19 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: TKD Times; Jeremy Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jeremy... Let me straighten out some misconceptions you have about TKD TIMES... First of all ...click on the following link if you think they do not have any Respect for General Choi or Hwang Kee... http://www.taekwondotimes.com/ Second of all...It is NOT geared to WTF...How do I know this?...Look inside for the Officers...you will find the following names... Chung E Kim Founder and Publisher...and not sure if Woo Jin Jung's name still appears, but he was the president... GM Kim is the head of Our Black Belt Association and GM Jung is my Instructor...I guarantee you that neither are WTF...GM Kim is ITF...GM Jung was ITF but formed the ATF when General Choi fell out of favour so many years ago and started teaching the WTF forms with the ITF forms in order to stay out of the political fights... Third...General Choi was a personal and very close friend of GM Jung and GM Kim...He was at GM Jung's Dojang 25th Year Celebration...GM Jung also planned on attending his funeral when I last talked to him prior to the funeral... As far as LARGE donations...name a publication that doesn't accept them...but most will not appear on the cover or even have their name mentioned in the publication to which they are donating... Please...Know the facts before speaking... Pil Seung! The One and Only "Tink" Kim G. Farral 5th Dan TKD ************************************ If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT. ************************************ --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] World hapkido org/GM Ji Trip to Korea To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 14:06:19 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Yes, GM Ji is going to Korea. Yes, there is a new Hapkido organization being > formed there. There are several folks from the U.S., including Master Ken > McKenzie, that will be going with him. Geoff Booth from "Down Unda" is also > going to be there. We are all going to try to get together from training on > 5 Oct. > > We will be doing a demonstration on 6 Oct, followed by work to establish the > organization. GM Ji will also be conducting a seminar (I think around the > 15th or 16th.) As far as I know, we will all be staying at the Seoul Olympic > Parktel, which is where I believe we will be doing the demo. Not sure where > the seminar will be. Wish I could be there with you guys. But... Please keep us advised of what occurs. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Patrick L" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 14:19:53 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Paternal assignment Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net All, The term "Modern Hapkido" means nothing. When used to validate the antics of someone who has seriously muddied the Hapkido waters, it is simply sad. If we are going to string together words, and claim paternity I herby stake my claim to the titles "Father of: Effective Hapkido , Coolkido, Bitchin' Hapkido, Hapkido Lite, Hoppin Ki Do, The Lazy man's way to Hapkido Masterdom, Hapkido for Dummies, Pellipanderdo, and of course Real Combat Hapkido. Getting in the WAY, Somebumnimrod Patrick _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 15 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang), eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 14:19:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] list slow Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net fyi, the lists will be a bit slow over the next week + as I travel to train, teach, vacation and visit my 83.75 year old mother in Ohio. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest