Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 08:37:08 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #464 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Ray sums it up... (Charles Veuleman) 2. Ki Switched Lamps (was To Ki or not to ki) (Lasich, Mark D.) 3. Empty Hand Clinic w/ master Sensei Phillip Koeppel (Stickfighter27@cs.com) 4. Authority and rights to rank (J T) 5. pictures (michael tomlinson) 6. RE: Modern Hapkido stuff (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 7. History Stuff (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 8. Re: Modern Hapkido, whose your daddy? (Victor Cushing) 9. RE: Hand Conditioning Stuff (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 10. Starting Over (Morgan James) 11. Re: TKDT Article and other topics (Michael Rowe) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 23:55:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Veuleman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Ray sums it up... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey Bruce, Ray gave a good idea on it, we pad our hands and feet, WTF pads the targets. We do kick and punch each other pretty solid, I would say like probably 75 percent or so, but of course, you can always do a kick harder, faster,.... I got a JR WEST flyer in the mail yesterday, Nathan seemed excited, but I think they forgot to send the 12 free tickets....Just kidding, I hope I can make it to one of the events. Houston and Jackson look interesting, which one do you guys normally attend on a larger # basis? I read someone post to me that they put on a hogu for a tournament for the first time, it sounded like you liked it. Congrats for getting in there competing with your family, that is a very wonderful thing. Keep on kicking with them. Anyway, it always seems the more I type, the more I get screwed with, so lemme end. YITMA Charlie Veuleman. ===== ------------------------------------- L. Charles Veuleman Natchitoches Karate Institute 204 Rapides Drive Natchitoches, LA 71457 318-356-7727 http://www.bluewavekarate.com ------------------------------------- --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Lasich, Mark D." To: "Dojang (E-mail)" Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 07:58:19 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Ki Switched Lamps (was To Ki or not to ki) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Wallace, Thank you for taking the bait. I appreciate the thoughts and input. I too was surprised of the lack of other replies! In your explanation, if the conductor does indeed detect a moving electric field, I would think the erratic waving of the hands around my touch-sensitive lamp would also be able to trigger the conductor simply due to the random movement of the hands. Especially since all the metal on the lamp acts as the switch! Also, this ONLY works when relaxed. Tensing up or "trying to force Ki" toward the lamp results in absolutely nothing other than looking silly!!! Just doing it on the spur of the moment works significantly better than "setting up" and trying. For those that may have missed the original post, we are discussing extending your hands toward a touch sensitive lamp and the lamp going on/off when your hands reach within an inch or two of the lamp! Absolutely no contact is made. The question being is this an extension of Ki, or can we explain this scientifically? If I remember correctly, the flow of electricity creates a magnetic field. A moving magnetic field creates a flow of electricity (electrons). So, considering the electric impulses within the human body, we can figure we have a surrounding magnetic field. As this magnetic field moves, it would create a flow of electrons - thus electricity. Can this be directed, or otherwise interact with something like a touch sensitive lamp to trigger an event, like the lamp being switched on or off? Is this Ki, science, both, magic, luck? Regardless, just about everybody at work can turn on my touch sensitive lamp by relaxing, extending both hands toward the lamp (ala palm heel strike, but fingers apart, and NO tension at all in the hand)! Perhaps others have some thoughts that can "shed some light" on this subject???? In the spirit, Mark >Message: 1 >From: "John Wallace" >To: >Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: To ki or not to ki? >Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 23:19:26 -0700 >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Hi Mark >Since no one else seems to have risen to the bait, I'll take a crack at it. >It is indeed true that we humans have an electric field around us - whether >its due to ki, a charge differential over our surface from scuffing our feet >on the ground (or even getting out of a chair) or nerve impulses (which >actually have a really tiny voltage - I'd be surprised if that was it). In >any case, when you move an electric field across a conductor, you get >current in proportion to the strength of the field, the speed of the motion, >and most importantly, the direction of the motion relative to the >orientation of the conductor. I would hazard a guess that the circuit that >detects whether you've touched the lamp is at the correct angle to sense >your electric field when you move directly towards the surface of the lamp. >Waving your hands in other directions doesn't work because the conductor >you're interacting with (physically - but at a distance) isn't oriented that >way. >Just my guess :) > >John W. >I Dan TKD (and two semesters of physics in college) >Fremont, CA --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Stickfighter27@cs.com Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 23:12:34 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Empty Hand Clinic w/ master Sensei Phillip Koeppel Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Empty Hand Clinic with Sensei Phillip Koeppel director of the United states Karate-do kai (uskk) Saturday November 16, 2002 12pm-4pm at the YWCA 210 west charles street Muncie, Indiana $40.00 per person To be covered : Kata- Empi Sho Kata Bunkai 3point Pressure Point K.O. and much much more. Come and experience the truley humble Sensei Koeppel. Come and share knowledge and talk w/ him as he shares what it was like to train w/ the first caucasion in the US Grand Master Robert Trias For more info contact Lee's Karate and Bushido Muncie, Indiana 765-747-5989 --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 05:27:00 -0700 (PDT) From: J T To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Authority and rights to rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "Sun Seo agrees and recognized Combat Hapkido as a Command? legitamte branch of Hapkido." A couple of things, and please understand that this is Command? not meant as a disrespectful question, but what authority does GM Seo have in recognizing any art as a legitimate art of HKD or any Korean MA when he is a GM of KSW? Was their a board meeting of the Kido-hae which determined this and if so who was on that board? Does GM Kwang and GM Ji recognize GM Pelligrini as an 8th dan and CHKD as a branch of HKD? If not then why? To be honest, I don't feel any instructor should be jumped 3 dan grades like that, no matter who did it. Of course I am a low man on the totem pole so that opinoin means nothing. :) Jeremy (soon to be in bad standing with someone) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 12:49:25 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] pictures Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Correct me if I'm wrong but my standard mode of operation is to NEVER display a Hapkido picture of myself and whoever UNLESS I have actually worked out with them? IMHO when you show photo's of you with people you haven't worked out with then you seem more like a tourist than an actual player. On the subject of Pelligrini's beginnings in Hapkido Mr. Rowe stated that Pelligrini started Hapkido in the 80's, well he is right, it was 1988 when I saw Pelligrini recieve his first dan in Hapkido in Orange City Florida, by the way it was an honorary degree with no test involved... hmm.. first dan 1988,, 8th dan founder and pioneer of modern Hapkido in 2000,, pretty good for 12 years,, Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 07:52:45 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Modern Hapkido stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Mike, Ray, Randall, Mike et al: As Mike Rowe mentioned, we have been around the Pelligrini Tree more than one turn both on this Net and on others. Personally I don't know that we need to give him anymore free advertising. As with the discussion of Religion vs Morality in KMA, though, I think it is way too easy to focus on Pelligrini, and not on the condition that he represents. This is the reason that I offered the question on 'What is Modern Hapkido". We all know (or suspect) the various anecdotes about self-promoting efforts such as JR mentioned in his post. Seems like most things that are good business sense are usually in bad taste. Sorry about that. However, I believe what is of greater importance is the Niche-- if it can be called that --- that things like "modern Hapkido" represent. Who is drawn to such efforts and what does "Modern Hapkido" provide that "Traditional Hapkido" does not. 1.) Well, it seems that the first selling point for Modern Hapkido is that it is easier to learn. Since Hapkido is an art rather than a science, any time you can reduce something to is most basic premise by culling out any further sophistication I suppose it does immediately seem to be easier. 2.) A second selling point is that Modern Hapkido seems to be "just as effective as "Traditional Hapkido". A fractured wrist is a fractured wrist and who cares if it was done with muscle or skill when its the result that counts, right? 3.) A third point is that Modern Hapkido seems to demand far less in commitment in time, money, and training. Why spend 10 years or more engaged in weekly training when our society constantly presses the individual not to commit to any one thing too long for fear of missing out on something else. As I type these items into my computer I can feel my teeth on edge. What I have just written flies in the face of all that I believe about KMA and their benefits to the individual and their society. I share them, though, because my original question concerned what sort of niche Modern Hapkido must fill. What sort of people find this kind of training worthwhile? Just using the items I posted above it would seem we are looking at an audience which is essentially goal-oriented and unable to commit to developing a relationship with their art. In fact I would go so far as to say that they are not particularly interested in "art" at all. Rather, I would characterize them as sketch-artists who when they see a Monet or Dega quickly mention that they "could do that too". My objection is that Hapkido IS an art rather than a science, or at least MORE art than science. You can learn some tricks and even teach some of those tricks to others for a price. However, the art is purchased with consistent training over an extended period of time to the point that it becomes a way of living your life both physically and mentally. The currency for this purchase is sweaty, smelly uniforms, bruises, stiffness and the understanding that as you grow older your either continue to strive for improvement or quickly lose what you have gained. Such commitment takes Character and it would seem to me that in the end it is the SUGGESTION of well-developed character which is what Modern Hapkido is actually selling to people. People who seem not to have the willingness to make the necessary commitment to go for the real thing will still want to be validated as though they did. I believe that in the end this is the real "niche" that Modern Hapkido is providing for. self-promoting anecdotes. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 08:09:16 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] History Stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Brian: "......The article dates the tribal martial arts back to 2000 B.C(E)!!! The article then moves to the Iron Age 400 B.C.(E) where "Several techniques of that era are seen today in modern kuk sool, such as too suk sool ( stone throwing) and sa lak sool (throwing sand into the enemies eyes to distract him)......" It comes with the territory, I'm afraid. Each and every one of the Far Eastern culture usually validates itself by drawing lineage back to important personalities or seemingly romatic periods. TAI CHI CHUAN was formerly sold as dating back to 2000 BC! Now we can say with some certainty that the art was organized in the 1700-s and based pretty much on Gen Qi, Ji-huang's Boxing Canon written in 1567. The fact is, noone knows exactly WHAT people did or how they did it 2000 years ago. That is the sort of thing that keeps archeologists and other scientists employed. Maybe we find a cudgeol or a bow or a sword in a tomb somewhere, but that still doesn't tell us how it was used. The fact is that nobody knows a helluva lot about how things were done before the start of the Yi dynasty in the 14th century. In fact, Brian, there is not much that people can tell you about how things were done in the 19th century-- and thats less than 200 years ago! Sure we have people who claim to have lineages that go back many generations, but start asked intelligent questions about the origins of specific material and you begin to find out that they don't know much past whoever taught them what they know. I tell my students that "you are only as good as your last technique." Maybe the same shuould hold true for some of these historical claims. Whatcha think? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:34:00 -0400 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Victor Cushing Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Modern Hapkido, whose your daddy? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, I beg your indulgence. I have sat silent for long enough. As the President of the International "Modern Hapkido" Federation (IMHF), I get a bit perturbed with John Pellegrini, myself. The use of the word modern in the title of the IMHF is intended only to differentiate this style from others because it adds certain weapon defenses and ground fighting to a more traditional list of defenses. I might have chosen any other word to indicate that distinction, so don't jump too hard on my old beat up body. I reckon without knowing for sure because I have lost so many brain cells that I have spent some 18 years and some 10,000 hours on the mat doing Hapkido. There are others on this list, who have spent a lot more time on the mat with Hapkido than I have, but John Pellegrini isn't one of them. There is no doubt, Mike Rowe, that he has obtained some sterling credentials, and there is plenty of evidence that he took short cuts to do so, which is why there is so much carping on this list. I have been to his seminars, trained with him, seen his shortcomings, been ranked in his organization (same rank you have), and sat with him late at night as he drank and bad-mouthed GM JI, GM Myung, GM In Sun Seo, and Master Hal Whalen. I have watched him leave key contributors out of group photographs because he thought they weren't giving him his due. I have listened to the experiences of others who have left his organization. Ask Hal Whalen about John Pellegrini, and how he acted while in the World Hapkido Ffederation. When I first met him as soon as he thought I was interested in joining his organization his first question was "What rank do you want 4th or 5th dan?" That makes it fairly obvious how business is conducted. If he has so much respect for Hapkido and so much training why is there no place on his web site where he lists the dates and time he trained with various people? It is on my site. His web site www.ichf.com is all about "I, me, John Pellegrini" and "What you can buy from me". There are no links on his sites that go anywhere but to something he has a commercial interest in, or that boost his needy ego a bit further up in the air. As for the Father of Modern Hapkido, here are some of his words of wisdom quoted from the article in TKD about those who have left his organization (sort of broadcast defamation) “bunch of imitators and fly-by-night organizations” Why are you so concerned? “…prolifieration of spinoffs from Combat Hapkido.” Note: my organization is one of those spinoffs. I came in the door to the first seminar of his I attended with more Hapkido time on the mat than he has now, let alone then, ” Now you can find Hapkido preceded by MODERN (as in International Modern Hapkido Federation?), tactical, progressive, dynamic, and practical.” Note; Emphasis was added, but the words are a direct quote. So John, does modern = a good thing or a bad thing? “However, these are not unique styles or true systems….” and a watered-down collection of World Hapkido Federation techniques with sport-oriented add-ons from BJJ, a week-end seminar with Paul Vunak, and Stick and Knife techniques derived from Moderrn Arnis is? (Where did Bram Frank go anyway?) “These people are simply feeding their egos and trying to make a few dollars.” Note: those like Victor Cushing, perhaps? Gee whiz, this is called projection in psychology textbooks, accusing others of that which you are guilty of yourself. “Actually if you think of their students and how they are being misled…” Hmmm. Try looking in the mirror. “All those ungrateful users who are now boasting, badmouthing and promoting themselves received rank and titles from me." Apparently Mike Rowe's 5th dan certificate is worth more than mine, because he is still in the ICHF. Either your ranks are valid, sir or they are not. You can't just choose the people who like you and deny those who may not. You issued the rank. If you are going to claim your legitimacy based on the fact that you have signed valid rank certificates, please grant others the same courtesy. “I also inducted them into various martial arts halls of fame where I am on the Board of Directors.” ...and your point? You thought they were good enough to nominate, and you thought they would help your reputation. Now that they do not support you, you bad-mouth them. “Now they brag about it, but do not acknowledge that I was the one to make it possible.” You do not acknowledge those who ranked you. I don't see GM Myung's name anywhere on your web site. Your name by the way is on my web site. When asked by Masters in my organization why I don't remove it. My answer is "because it is part of my history." You are a revisionist, I am not. Sounds to me this entire TKD article is written as a public bragging session alternating with a very defensive posture.. John Pellegrini has no good words to say about anyone who left his organization, Bram Frank, Vic Cushing, and many others. John is on the one hand the father of "modern hapkido" and on the other hand says that anything that is "modern hapkido" is worthless because of the people associated with it I chose not to stay in his organization. Grow up, John! By the way I am speaking for myself. I don't need the Masters from my organization defending me. If John Pellegrini wants to respond, let's hear from him, not from one of his flunkies. John Pellegrini needs to step forward and fight his own battles, let's see some of the "Combat" in combat Hapkido. Vic Cushing. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 08:37:12 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Hand Conditioning Stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jeremy: ".....Hi all, I have some questions. How common is the practice of striking a brick or a piece of wood with the different striking surfaces of the hand in order to harden them? Is this something that people really do? Does it really work? I have started doing it and in a few short weeks I believe I feel a difference....." Regardless of what you saw in IRON AND SILK the use of hand conditioning has become as passe' as competitive breaking. Rocky Marciano was said to have been able to break a 4x4 with a mid-level punch but I have not been able to find anywhere that he spent time with a makiwara conditioning his hands. Sound bag work done on a regular basis is all the more that you need for MA; that and regular work on the forearms and wrists. The knuckles, fingers and finger-tips of the human hand were never designed to take the impact needed for combat. However, if they are to be used that way, you certainly need to make sure they are up to the task! Where people go off the deep end is with the issue you raised about being a musician, for instance. We all have day jobs and families and spending hours and hours banging on tree trucks and plunging our hands into hot gravel is not going to help most of us much with our fine motor skills. We need to strike (no pun) a balance between being able to deliver a decent punch and being able to pick-up a fork. Thirty minutes a day with the body bag alternated with thirty minutes a day with a ball of modeling clay should be more than enough to condition your hands for what you need to use them for. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Morgan James To: 'Dojang Digest' Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:04:36 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Starting Over Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ok, I've heard enough about Ki, religion, hogus, and training while being pregnant even though they are excellent topics that certainly need addressed. So, like Ray says from time to time, let's move on. Actually, lets move to a topic that has been discussed before but it's been a while. It's about people coming into your school from another style/school and wishing to retain their current rank while training in your school. I have two gentlemen who have been coming to me over the last few months and participating in classes due to the fact that their own school was unfortunatley shut down. I am just helping fellow martial artists out in their time of need and misfortune. One is a 1st Dan and the other is a 1st Gup. They practice, IMHO, an unorthodox version of Tang Soo Do with a mix of Japanese Karate thrown in. They practice the Pyong Ahn forms along with Basai and a few other Japanese forms that I do not recognize. They also practice Ninjitsu techniques from time to time. Both gentlemen are very good at what they do and are very respectful of me for allowing them the opportunity to come and train in my dojang. Both gentlemen periodically communicate with their old instructor to keep up on technques and requirements for their next ranks. The 1st Dan is due to test for his 2nd Dan in April 2003. I have no idea about the 1st Gup. He just tells me that he would like to gain his 1st Dan in his current style before stepping into a new style/school permanently. I can't say I blame him for feeling that way. Both have verbally expressed their desires to join my school sometime in the near future in order to gain more martial arts experience and rank in a different system. In previous posts I recall Master West stating something like "You walk into my dojang, no matter what rank you have from another school, and you are recieving a white belt...". It was something along those lines. I agree with this. But my GM has informed me that due to their ranks and experience in Korean TSD, he would allow them to join at the rank of 1st Gup as long as they can produce legit documentation of current and past ranks. Both would have to stay at that rank for as long as it took them to master all our Gup forms, 1-2-3 sparring techniques, TKD/School history, etc. When they are ready to test for 1st Dan, they could. Since this topic was discussed some time ago, I was thinking that there may be some changes in opinion on this subject since then and would like some honest to goodness thoughts on this. Personally, I would not feel right walking into a new school/style with my 3rd Dan belt around my waist. I would want the white belt and earn my place through sweat and blood in the new school. Thank you in advance to all who reply and help guide me in the appropriate direction. James Morgan GTKDA www.gtkda.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Michael Rowe" To: Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:39:14 -0500 Organization: Dan Il Press Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: TKDT Article and other topics Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master JR West: You are so right GM He-Young Kimm is a great gentleman. He doesn't talk bad about Combat Hapkido even when given the opportunity. Others on this list though are not so perfect. In the article in which you refer is there any special significance to the photo with GM Pellegrini? Not that I can see. I only see a collection of photos with famous martial artists, some who he has trained with (it may have been only a seminar but he trained with them at least) Since you ask I'll gladly help you out with the circumstances of as many photos I can place. Chuck Norris - KDOA Fund Raiser in Chicago, Anyone here who wouldn't jump at the chance to get a photo with Mr. Norris? Joe Pescepo - KDOA Fund Raiser In Sun Seo - 1999 in Florida when Combat Hapkido recieved recognition as a Kwan. Paul Vunak - After a intensive weekend seminar he recieved his Phase I Instructor certification Don Wilson - At International Martial Arts Hall of Fame Cynthia Rothrock - Don't know for sure I think it was KDOA Fundraiser in Chicago. Danny Inosanto - Don't Know He-Young Kimm - KDOA Fundraiser, asked for a photo with him (as already noted) William De Thouars - After training with Uncle Bill for a weekend Kathy Long - Don't Know Ernesto Presas - International Martial Arts Hall of Fame Suh Bok Sup - Kido Tour after interviewing him about Hapkido Ron Van Clief - International Martial Arts Hall of Fame Banquet Gary Dill - After a Triple Impact Seminar (Pellegrini, Dill, Gracie) Carlson Gracie, Jr. - After a Triple Impact Seminar (Pellegrini, Dill, Gracie) As for prominately displayed the photo is one of eight that are on that page, Not so prominate as you say and is in a collection of 15 photos. One also must note that GM Pellegrini is not calling himself the Father of Modern Hapkido (GM Pellegrini actually calls GM Choi Yong Sool that) but instead it was the interviewer Mark Daley that called him that. Ray: << should think that would be "intuitively obvious to the most casual observer", but I guess that is not always the case.>> Whoops my bad, hit send before changing subject. Believe it or not you are one of the few lists I belong to that actually BOUNCES said posts. I think it is good lets readers decied what to read. Michael Tomlinson: <> So I'm blind? I can see how you might think that because you think so little of John Pellegrini, and I at least respect him. Because I respect GM Yong Chin Pak of Iowa State University I suppose you think little of his skills too? Believe it or not I have worked with many great Hapkidoin. A few of them I have even studied under for some period in time, not just a weekend. I have been told that my support and loyalty to Pellegrini is undeserved I disagree, but then everyone is entitled to their opinon. There are 2 Martial Artist I give my loyalty to 100% GM Yong Chin Pak of Iowa State University and GM John Pellegrini. As for my use of the word matrix. Well being a progrmmer/analyst of some 15 years I tend to think in those terms. A matrix is what I think Hapkido is, a collection of arrays that the practioner can select appropriate responses that are stored in memory for specific types of encounters. BTW ALL HAPKIDO is MODERN it isn't even 100 years old yet. Hapkido is based on SCIENTIFIC theories and is workable based on these theories, despite some people trying to throw in the mystical KI in there from time to time. (I do think Ki exists BTW just not often the way many people describe it) OF COURSE all the above posted rant on my part will do nothing to sway anyone. So why do I bother posting them? Hmmmm, good question. One that I'm asking more and more often so I'll just close this rant with Peace be with you. Michael Rowe www.danilpress.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest