Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 10:26:58 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #466 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Vic Cushing (Michael Rowe) 2. Community Involvement? (Lasich, Mark D.) 3. "Move on, boys!" (Randall Sexton) 4. Pelligrini (FirstPe315@aol.com) 5. Ki Lamp (Randall Sexton) 6. modern Hapkido (michael tomlinson) 7. Pelligrini - Again (FirstPe315@aol.com) 8. Houston or Jackson (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 9. Re: Modern Hapkido, Please be Accurate (Victor Cushing) 10. RE: Information Request (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 11. Pelligrini and Photos of celebrities (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 12. Assumptions (J T) 13. Korean Terminology (Linda Principato) 14. RE: Starting Over (Richard Zaruba) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Michael Rowe" To: Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 11:38:50 -0500 Organization: Dan Il Press Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Vic Cushing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I too have spent many hours after seminars with GM Pellegrini having a nice dinner and maybe having too much Murphy's (The Irish in me I guess :) ) Never once have heard him bad mouth GM Myung, GM Seo, and the only thing derogatory I heard about GM Ji was as follows: GM Pellegrini once told me "When going to one of GM Ji Han Jae's seminars on Hapkido and paying about $100 I was subjected to lectures on Daoist Sexual Practices. I did not pay money to be told when I should and should not have sex. There was no mention of this topic in any of the literature." My 5th dan is only worth the blood, sweat, and tears I have put into it, same as yours and anyone elses. I'm reminded of the saying "Thou Shall sweat in thy training so thou do not bleedeth on the street." [ok so maybe I tweaked it a little bit :) ] Oh, one quick question. If the first thing Pellegrini asked you was do you want 4th or 5th Dan? And that was an indicator of where he was at in terms of rank. Why did you join the organization? Peace and Long Life! Michael Rowe www.danilpress.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Lasich, Mark D." To: "Dojang (E-mail)" Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 12:39:58 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Community Involvement? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just curious what, if any, community involvement the various school owners and instructors have on this list? We all know and love all the positive aspects the martial arts bring to us and our students, but do we do that only if they come to us, or do we step out and become visible, positive, contributing members of our communities? We probably all know about Chuck Norris' Kick Drugs Out Of America program, I've seen break-a-thons to raise money for cancer, etc........ Do you sponsor after school activities? Offer free self-defense courses to seniors? Sit on council, attend public meetings, march in the parade, clean up the highway, work with the local police, sponsor community watches, etc.......???? I guess there's a fine line between involvement for the inherent publicity versus involvement because you love what you do and want others to benefit from that as well. Either way, I think it would be very interesting to hear what others do. Me? Well, I am barely a speck in my community of martial artists, let alone involved in my local community. But awareness is step one, no? In the spirit, Mark --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Randall Sexton" To: Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 11:42:14 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] "Move on, boys!" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >>So, like Ray says from time to time, let's move on.>> I read this great non-fiction book, "My Life With Three Women" recently and it is great! Sailing adventure, recent divorced 40 plus year old man buying a new 40 sailboat and three women signing on as crew, fighting pirates and storms, etc.. Wonder if I could do this on the way to Hawaii where my wife currently is...yall keep quiet, now! http://www.extremeadventurebooks.com/welcome.htm Randall Sexton www.laughinghara.com "Nothing is more important than the existence of what does not exist" John Hawes --__--__-- Message: 4 From: FirstPe315@aol.com Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 12:52:20 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Pelligrini Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 9/25/2002 9:24:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > and all the time > feeling good about your accomplishments, I know quite a few "modern" > Hapkido > pioneers who fit this pattern,,but yeah,, from what I have seen of most > "modern" Hapkido I would say without a doubt that Mr. Pelligrini is the > "leading" pioneer of "modern Hapkido". > Michael Tomlinson > World Sin Moo Hapkido > Hey Michael - Don't look know, but you just described John Pelligrini's movement through the Martial-Arts world. Thank you for putting it clearly for us all to see. Those buzz-sentences, "getting a 2nd or 3rd Dan in an organization", "jumping around from organization to organization to get rank". Yep, you said it perfectly. Jeff --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Randall Sexton" To: Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 11:54:06 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Ki Lamp Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >>>For those that may have missed the original post, we are discussing extending your hands toward a touch sensitive lamp and the lamp going on/off when your hands reach within an inch or two of the lamp! Absolutely no contact is made. The question being is this an extension of Ki, or can we explain this scientifically?<<< Your energy fields extend beyond your body. One field of thought is that there are four levels of energy: 1. Causal (Spirit) 2. Psychic (Soul) 3. Mental-emotional (Mind) 4. Physical (body) So we are all "touching"each other when we are in a room together. It make sense in the healing arena, for example when someone has surgery to removed say a troublesome gallbladder on a physical level, but the symptoms remain because the other areas have not been addressed. Randall Sexton www.laughinghara.com "Nothing is more important than the existence of what does not exist" John Hawes --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 16:57:44 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] modern Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I think we inadvertantly used the word "modern" to categorize some people and organizations on here that we KNOW are not as legitamate as they say,, Victor Cushing's org. has that word in it and I'll give Victor the benefit of the doubt and say I wasn't talking about him or his organization.. I have seen Victor work out and he stayed on the mat a couple of days even after he was in some serious Hapkido workout pain, and back problems, so I have "earned" respect for Victor Cushing. I have seen him practice what he preaches. As to Michael Rowes lumping his Iowa State Hapkido instructor in with Pelligrini, well you should be ashamed of yourself,, you know I wouldn't say anything about your Korean Hapkido Instructor from Iowa State because I don't know him or have ever met him. I ONLY comment vehemently on people I have seen, been around and PERSONALLY know the history of,, this includes your marketing manager: Pelligrini. Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: FirstPe315@aol.com Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 13:06:31 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Pelligrini - Again Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 9/26/2002 2:24:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > My advice to all is to go to a ICHF Semiar in your area. GM Pellegrini > travels the United States and shares his view on self-defense and Hapkido. > After, going you may give an opinon. Without doing this your opinon is NOT > based on fact but supposition. You want to discuss his technique, fine. > Discuss his history, fine. Discuss his seminars, fine, But do it based on > experience not heresay. Well Michael, I have been to one of his seminars and I have also been to one sponsored by him to have my instructor teach him (maybe the 2nd stop of his organizational move) and he was a marginal 3rd Degree ( I believe he was told this), so he bailed. Went to IHF and went to 5th (as mentioned previously, several individuals I have heard from in this organization had "not good" things to say about his attitude). Then went from 5th to 8th in .... how long? about 5 years. This isn't saying anything. This is a large organization, they can't quality control anything. I've seen his technique and what he teaches and it is sub-par in my opinion. You can tell by his positioning in his pictures in the TKDT article that he doesn't truly understand the mechanics of what makes a lock work and where his body position needs to be. And let's not fool ourselves, he has made the "being seen w/other Masters" circuit more than anybody. Everybody notice the shots of all the "whos who" in his TKDT article. Just goes to show you, it's not what you know it's who you know. Jeff --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 14:40:22 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Houston or Jackson Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Charlie, Houston: This is a one-day seminar with Master West teaching. He spends about an hour on one topic then moved to the next hour after a short break. Jackson: This is a 3-day event with a lot of people teaching. You can attend classes taught by many members of this group, such as Master West, Master Timmerman, Master Hodder, Master McHenry, Master Booth, Mr. Sexton, yours truly, and even the ancient one (Ray). There are 3 classes going on at one time and each class is usually taught twice so you can attend the classes that you want. Hope this helps, Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 14:45:56 -0400 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Victor Cushing Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Modern Hapkido, Please be Accurate Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Whatever we decide or don't about John Pellegrini, please respect the fact that there is an organization that uses "Modern Hapkido" in its title and we have no affiliation with Johh Pellegrini. Call his stuff what he calls it.... "Combat Hapkido"... and don't do damage to others who do not share his views. We will never hear from John Pellegrini. I agree completely with Michael Tomlinson about all the pictures. It is an attempt to claim greatness by either osmosis or proximity. The time and place of the photos or the circumstances under which they were taken has nothing to do with the sort of "dealer puffery" use being made of them, so a more accurate chronology or more details about the event where the picture was taken doesn't defuse the negative reaction with which they are being met.. When I post seminar photos on my web site there is a disclaimer in large letters "I am not claiming to be one of their students, just someone who learns what he can from their seminars." Those photos on my site are of me at seminars where I worked out with or under the direction of the person in the picture with me (if you look closely you can usually see a sweaty shirt or uniform top as well). We will get defenses, demurs, and denials from others, but John will remain mute.. Mike Rowe... "One also must note that GM Pellegrini is not calling himself the Father of Modern Hapkido (GM Pellegrini actually calls GM Choi Yong Sool that) but instead it was the interviewer Mark Daley that called him that." Does anyone really believe that he didn't proof read and approve of every word in that article in TKD? and what about all the trash he spouted in the quotes about people who left his organization should we attribute those remarks and the hubris they display to Mark Daley as well? Read the whole article. See if you think it represents the best of martial arts. Does it indicate respect for others? Or is it basically an advertisement? One with the tone of a struggling political hack candidate for public office who only knows mud slinging and boasting about himself? Mark Daley is the student. John Pellegrini is the teacher. What kind of lessons are being taught? It is mighty convenient to take the applause for yourself and hand the boos or catcalls over to someone else. I guess Mark Daley has a lot to learn. He may need a different teacher to really improve himself. Vic Victor M. Cushing President International Modern Hapkido Federation 4460 Homestead Drive Moscow, PA 18444 USA http://modernhapkido.org TEL 570-842-1558 FAX 570-842-3233 --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 13:25:35 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Information Request Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Folks: Vic and Jeremy both alluded to the idea of a person (in this case Mike Rowe and Pelligrini) having their rank validated. I think I have a pretty good idea about the dynamics of being recognized by a particular organization here in the States. However it got me wondering about the new organization that Rick Nabors mentioned, thinking it was the same organization written up in TKD TIMES (May 2002). I don't think it is but now I am curious if anyone has followed up to get more information about the Korean Martial Arts Federation (Han Kuk Muye Hyub Hae) that was written of by Dr. David Higgs. I don't know anything about it other than what was written of in the article but it seems to include a pretty high power group of people. I would guess that association is pretty much by "invitation only", but I wouldn't mind hearing more about them if someone has any further information. Do we have any HAN MU DO people on the Net? Seems like that organization has been pretty quiet. Whatsup with That part of the jungle? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 15:06:31 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Pelligrini and Photos of celebrities Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Michael Tomlinson wrote: > Correct me if I'm wrong but my standard mode of operation is to NEVER > display a Hapkido picture of myself and whoever UNLESS I have actually > worked out with them? IMHO when you show photo's of you with people you > haven't worked out with then you seem more like a tourist than an actual > player. I've got a couple photos of myself and Kathy Long and other movie people on the walls in my house. They're fun, but certainly not worth much. I always enjoy most the photos of my students performing, and the signed photos from my instructors, but I enjoy putting up photos of people who inspire me as well (like my photo of Han-Jae Ji, with whom I've only studied for about an hour!). On the other hand, one could argue that Pelligrini is only being a smart marketer, and that such tactics are essential if one hopes to make a good amount of money teaching the arts. When are we going to start talking about honorary black belts for movie stars and politicians? Michael Rowe wrote: > least) Since you ask I'll gladly help you out with the circumstances of as > many photos I can place. I haven't seen the article yet, but I believe John Pelligrini was up in Chicago a few years ago when Chuck Norris came in for KDOA, right? Don Wilson, Kathy Long, Karen Shepherd, Han-Jae Ji, He-Young Kimm, Cynthia Rothrock, Carlson Gracie Jr., and others were also there doing photos, so some could have come from there. Yours in the arts, Dakin Burdick dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 13:13:11 -0700 (PDT) From: J T To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Assumptions Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "Because I respect GM Yong Chin Pak of Iowa State University I suppose you think little of his skills too? " With all due respect, I don't believe he ever said anything about GM Pak's skills. Only Msg. Pelligrini's. Don't make assumptions such as that. Sometimes you just can't blame the parent for the sins of the children. ;) Jeremy __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Linda Principato" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 16:17:02 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean Terminology Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm having a problem with the use of Korean language, specifically the word for Thank You. At my school, they are pronouncing it very differently than how it is shown on the website listing Korean terminology. Also, I have a co-worker who has been studying TKD for more than ten years, and he pronounces the word as it is on the website. What shall I do or say at my school? I'm very new, and don't want to seem disrespectful to my instructors so I haven't questioned them about it, but I'm having a serious problem whenever it's time to say Thank You. I end up mumbling something that sound ridiculous. Any advice will be much appreciated. linda ***** "Blessed are the flexible, for they shall not be bent out of shape!" _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Richard Zaruba" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Starting Over Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 15:21:31 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello, This is a matter I have had to deal with both myself and with students that have come into my dojang. I personally started over as a white belt after obtaining a 2nd degree previously. To be honest it was the best thing that could happen. I did not know the KSW forms, the self defence techniques, the principles and how they were applied, but I learned them and now have a better grasp of my previous training as well. I have prospective students that choose not to join my school because they have to start at white belt, to be honest the ones who begrudgingly started at white belt usually don't last either. An open mind is required to learn new material and approaches to material you already know, and being able to accept a white belt again is a good sign. The students that do are usually some of my best students because rank is viewed as what it actually is artificial. Knowledge is the true gauge of any martial artist not a belt, uniform, fancy title, or any other exterior trappings. Respectfully, ______________________________________________ Richard Zaruba, Head Instructor Academy of Korean Martial Arts Kuk Sool Won of Grand Forks 1395A South Columbia Road Postal Mail Box 333 Grand Forks, ND 58201 Phone:(701) 594-6290 Cell: (218) 791-2282 http://www.ksw-nd.com richard@ksw-nd.com James Morgan wrote: Actually, lets move to a topic that has been discussed before but it's been a while. It's about people coming into your school from another style/school and wishing to retain their current rank while training in your school. I have two gentlemen who have been coming to me over the last few months and participating in classes due to the fact that their own school was unfortunatley shut down. I am just helping fellow martial artists out in their time of need and misfortune. One is a 1st Dan and the other is a 1st Gup. They practice, IMHO, an unorthodox version of Tang Soo Do with a mix of Japanese Karate thrown in. They practice the Pyong Ahn forms along with Basai and a few other Japanese forms that I do not recognize. They also practice Ninjitsu techniques from time to time. Both gentlemen are very good at what they do and are very respectful of me for allowing them the opportunity to come and train in my dojang. Both gentlemen periodically communicate with their old instructor to keep up on technques and requirements for their next ranks. The 1st Dan is due to test for his 2nd Dan in April 2003. I have no idea about the 1st Gup. He just tells me that he would like to gain his 1st Dan in his current style before stepping into a new style/school permanently. I can't say I blame him for feeling that way. Both have verbally expressed their desires to join my school sometime in the near future in order to gain more martial arts experience and rank in a different system. In previous posts I recall Master West stating something like "You walk into my dojang, no matter what rank you have from another school, and you are recieving a white belt...". It was something along those lines. I agree with this. But my GM has informed me that due to their ranks and experience in Korean TSD, he would allow them to join at the rank of 1st Gup as long as they can produce legit documentation of current and past ranks. Both would have to stay at that rank for as long as it took them to master all our Gup forms, 1-2-3 sparring techniques, TKD/School history, etc. When they are ready to test for 1st Dan, they could. Since this topic was discussed some time ago, I was thinking that there may be some changes in opinion on this subject since then and would like some honest to goodness thoughts on this. Personally, I would not feel right walking into a new school/style with my 3rd Dan belt around my waist. I would want the white belt and earn my place through sweat and blood in the new school. Thank you in advance to all who reply and help guide me in the appropriate direction. ____________________________________________ Richard Zaruba Department of Anatomy & Cell Biology University of North Dakota School of Medicine 501 North Columbia Road P.O. Box 9037 Grand Forks, ND 58202-9037 zaruba@medicine.nodak.edu 701.777.2576 work 701.777.2477 fax [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of Richard Zaruba.vcf] --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest