Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 23:18:04 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #468 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Korean Terminology ( Mac) 2. Photo's and magazines (michael tomlinson) 3. Re: Korean Terminology (Scott F. Barnes) 4. RE: Joining w/Rank... (FirstPe315@aol.com) 5. Re: Gm Ji (Beungood@aol.com) 6. Re: More P (Beungood@aol.com) 7. Re: GM Pellegrini (Beungood@aol.com) 8. Re: Korean thanks (barends@gbugroep.nl) 9. hwarang do (freddie bishop) 10. Personal Expression of Hapkido (J T) 11. My Irish Temper let loose, sorry. (Michael Rowe) 12. Chungju International MA Festival (A. Boyd) 13. 2002 Gathering at Chicago (J T) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 15:27:54 -0500 From: " Mac" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean Terminology Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: "Linda Principato" <> There are several ways to say it in Korean: Informal for Thankyou: ko-map sum-ni-da Formal Thankyou: Kam-sa ham-ni-da <> I would think this is an easy answer (IMO): use what your instructor would like you to use. ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 22:09:31 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Photo's and magazines Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dakin writes that he loves putting photo's up in his home of him with people that inspire him even though he didn't study with them,, hey, I have all kinds of photo's at my HOUSE,, there is a big difference in putting them up in your house and putting them in an international martial arts magazine!! We ALL know the reason those photo's are in TKDT's. They are there to make pelligrini look like he has studied or at least has the respect and well wishes of all those Martial Arts figures. Mike Rowe says they have no great significance,, well then why do they take up TWO pages of the article about pelligrini in TKDT? Would anyone that is on this board put photo's in an international magazine because they have no significance? Come on man the truth is staring everyone right in the face,, don't turn your head and make up excuses,, what is just is,, say so and move along. Look,I have no problem with most people in the ICHF, I have met some really nice people during one of their seminars,,they were really wanting to find Hapkido and treated me very well, most of them were genuine people, they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time to actually "learn" Hapkido. The pet peeve I have about pelligrini and the "combat" hapkido thing is that I know for a fact having been there in person seeing him work out and knowing the chronological timeframe of his REAL Hapkido training that he hasn't paid his dues in Hapkido and THAT IMHO does a BIG disservice to all of the old war dogs in hapkido that have. By accepting this nonsense and trying to justify it or looking the other way while it happens brings a major insult to ALL the REAL Hapkido Grandmasters of the world,, pelligrini can buy all the kwans, reccomendations, certificates, belts,, photo's, ICHF potato salad, etc.. in the world and that STILL doesn't change his history and past training in Hapkido.. period... All right, I'm done and I'll spare all the members anymore of my pelligrini posts... Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 20:32:43 -0400 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: "Scott F. Barnes" Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Korean Terminology Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Can you give us a hint about what they are pronouncing? We generally say something like gom-sa-hap-ni-da for example. It's quite possible that your school is using a different phrase with the same results. Believe me I am not a Korean language expert, but I'm certain other people here can help with more information. You could also verify that you are hearing what is being said correctly with your instructors after class. That would be the most direct way. Instructors are generally very understanding, especially with new students. Scott Linda Principato wrote: >I'm having a problem with the use of Korean language, specifically the word >for Thank You. At my school, they are pronouncing it very differently than >how it is shown on the website listing Korean terminology. Also, I have a >co-worker who has been studying TKD for more than ten years, and he >pronounces the word as it is on the website. >What shall I do or say at my school? I'm very new, and don't want to seem >disrespectful to my instructors so I haven't questioned them about it, but >I'm having a serious problem whenever it's time to say Thank You. I end up >mumbling something that sound ridiculous. >Any advice will be much appreciated. >linda --__--__-- Message: 4 From: FirstPe315@aol.com Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 00:48:15 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Joining w/Rank... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 9/29/2002 11:50:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Personally, I would not feel right walking into a new school/style with > my 3rd Dan belt around my waist. I would want the white belt and earn > my place through sweat and blood in the new school. Personally Richard, I would respectfully disagree with Master West. Although one is expected to start "from the bottom" up if their desire is to earn rank in an additional style. I don't see any problem. In my past school and my current one which I try to govern, I respect respect and honor all ranks/styles coming in. Know, they don't get an "accelerated" program. They will have to earn their rank in Hapkido/TKD or Judo through blood and sweat IF they want to. Anybody coming from another style may have to take several months to see if it's for them or not. I make other style color/belts line-up behind all Hapkido colored belts in my school, we consider their Hapkido knowledge only in the hierarchy. However, for somebody of advanced caliber (which MAY be the case...maybe not), they may grasp concepts and basics much quicker, therefore I believe it is a positive thing for myself and my students to know who may have advanced rank from another system. My .02 Jeff --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 01:08:51 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Gm Ji Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 9/29/02 2:49:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > I too have spent many hours after seminars with GM Pellegrini having a nice > dinner and maybe having too much Murphy's (The Irish in me I guess :) ) > > Never once have heard him bad mouth GM Myung, GM Seo, and the only thing > derogatory I heard about GM Ji was as follows: > GM Pellegrini once told me "When going to one of GM Ji Han Jae's seminars > on > Hapkido and paying about $100 I was subjected to lectures on Daoist Sexual > Practices. I did not pay money to be told when I should and should not > have > sex. There was no mention of this topic in any of the literature." > > I just spent two days training privately with the man and he was nothing short of phenominal. His training is the toughest and hardest training I have thus far taken part in. his warm up consisted of multiple reps of his 25 basic kicks and then into all the more advanced kicking repoitore. Alonmg with doing this he was explianing the thoery and applications for each. The same for the rest of class doing striking , jointlocking and throwing.. He demonstrated to us and had us perform them full power on him. His power ,speedprecision and attention to detail were inspiring We did not get "lectured" to. On previous training we have had talks about various thing,but , not in the form of a lecture. Doju nim offered up his methods of Meditation ,diet and lifestyle in an attempt to help all of us better ourselves. He did it in a spitrit of how it helped him sustain himself in hard training for so many years and not a lectrue . Maybe GM P was too busy trying to get a photo op to really listen to what Dojunim had to say or thought it wasn't as important as getting pictures near him. Jack O --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 01:10:32 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: More P Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 9/29/02 2:49:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Oh, one quick question. If the first thing Pellegrini asked you was do you > want 4th or 5th Dan? And that was an indicator of where he was at in terms > of rank. Yes, I think it is a good example of what type of martial artist he is. Jack o --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 01:15:40 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: GM Pellegrini Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net GM Pellegrini > travels the United States and shares his view on self-defense and Hapkido. . I've seen his technique and what he teaches and it is sub-par in my opinion. You can tell by his positioning in his pictures in the TKDT article that he doesn't truly understand the mechanics of what makes a lock work and where his body position needs to be. He lacks fundemental knowledge of basic movement. Ive seen him perform his Hapkido and he adds in too much stepping and is awkward in his application. It makes me laugh to see GM next to his name. Jacko --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:04:36 +0200 From: barends@gbugroep.nl To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Korean thanks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I'm having a problem with the use of Korean language, specifically the word > for Thank You. At my school, they are pronouncing it very differently than > how it is shown on the website listing Korean terminology. Also, I have a > co-worker who has been studying TKD for more than ten years, and he > pronounces the word as it is on the website. > > What shall I do or say at my school? I'm very new, and don't want to seem > disrespectful to my instructors so I haven't questioned them about it, but > I'm having a serious problem whenever it's time to say Thank You. I end up > mumbling something that sound ridiculous. If your are a beginning Korean student, and just learned hangul (Korean writing) you'd probably say something like; Kamsahabnida That's how it is written. You pronounce it however as; kamsamnida There are however more ways of saying thank you, in Korean; kumhapsoomnida is one of them. -- mvg. Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 04:17:55 -0700 (PDT) From: freddie bishop To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] hwarang do Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Are there any Hwarang Do practitioners on the list? Way back in 1992, I visited a Hwarang Do dojang in Pheonix, AZ. I was impressed with the style. Fred __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 05:50:07 -0700 (PDT) From: J T To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Personal Expression of Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "Hapkido is all that and more. Hapkido is a personal expression. Like religion, like literature, like painting, even programming. Each will do it a bit differently." Yes but many good masters don't do a paint by numbers and then call themselves Picasso. As I look at the pictures in the magazine (and perhaps this is due to having to pose for the camera) none of his positionings are correct to make those locks effective. Even as an amature hapkido practitioner I can pick up on that much. Also, you mentioned GM Park, I believe his first HKD instructor. Would you have contact information for him so that I may verify with him his HKD ranking? Thank you. Jeremy Talbott (so not to get people miffed at the other Jeremy on the list) :) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Michael Rowe" To: Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:02:42 -0500 Organization: Dan Il Press Subject: [The_Dojang] My Irish Temper let loose, sorry. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ok, first off an apology to the list. I made a few posts that I probablly shouldn't have. I have been having some rough times at work and at home, and for some stupid reason I let the seep into here. Nobody every directly said anyting about GM Yong Chin Pak and his skills. However in private e-mail messages "and you people know who you are" I was personally attacked and told that my skills were totally worthless and not usefull and not truly Hapkido. Now since most people seem to recogninze my association with the ICHF and GM Pellegrini they don't know about my studies under GM Yong Chin Pak or GM Suk Ki Shin. These attacks, once again with out ever meeting me, working out with me, and have a clue about who I am, really irked me. But I prefere a public forum so I posted to the List, for that I am sorry. I know about my skills lineage and I know they are fine. One of the instructors I had early in my martial arts education was one Robert Bussey. I remember all the flak he got from many in the martial arts community. However, he had a good system, developed a strong program and helped develop stron character. Because of that pervious relationship I treat GM Pellegrini the way that I do. Maybe you all on the web are right. Maybe the man's lineage in Hapkido is young and not deserving of GM Status. Problem is he has NEVER treated me in a manner that some other Grandmasters have. He has NEVER bad mouthed others in my presence. He has always been open minded about training and implementation in his schools and federation. He has show inovation and inspiration in seminar teaching as well as been willing to help me grow. For those reasons I remain loyal to the ICHF. GM Pellgrini has always said that loyalty must be a 2 way street if what he delivers is not worth the loyalty that I give him, he expects me to move on. I have studied and will continue to study the vast array of styles, teachings, and innovations in the martial arts realm. I have attended many seminars and worked my body to a black and blue bruise from the falls, strikes, and kicks that I absorb. I haven't met J.R. West, Bruce, or Jeremy yet though someday I will, since one of these years I will actually make it to the big seminar in MS and then I'm sure others will change their opinon on me, maybe never on GM Pellegrini, but maybe someday they will. Peace and Long Life to you all! Michael Rowe www.danilpress.com --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 09:14:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "A. Boyd" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Chungju International MA Festival Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I went to the 5th Annual, Chungju International Martial Arts Festival on the weekend. This is a small town about two bus-hours south of Seoul. I had a great time last year but unfortunately this year the only day I was free to go to the week long event was on a day when all of the arts I watched last year were on display again. Oh well - my bad luck and timing I guess. Quite a few of the demonstrations had added sword material (my special interest) since last year and many styles of Korean sword work seemed to be involved in the festival this year, unlike last year. I didn't get to see any of them. *sigh* What disappointed me about the sword stuff I saw was that it was the same old crap. I saw some amazing things but it wasn't sword work. I saw a young man bend a sword with his eye socket. I wish I had his determination and his sword allowance (ha ha!) but it didn't speak to me in a "I want to do that!" way. I saw another young man rolling around on sword blades and rubbing one across his tongue. Same reaction. Cool training exercise, but not for me. I began to despair a little. I also try my hand at Hapkido from time to time and I saw two horribly tragic Hapkido demonstrations by two totally awesome elder practioners of soemthing they call Mu Lim Do (To be a bit cynical: this is another new "ancient art" which seems to stem directly from HKD if their demonstration is to be considered representative of the art). The founders are really quite old and frail looking yet both are still men of iron with decent mobility and speed. One of them spent an ungodly amount of time doing situps for the amazement of the crowd. It's too bad that they demonstrated introductory sword vs stick drills for gup ranks at this affair. What made it worse was that the drill employed a collapsible umbrella versus a jingum. In this drill, which most of our HKD-studying members have likely seen somwhere or perhaps had to learn, the sword-wielding attacker apparently has sworn a vow to kill the short stick held by the defender. It's all he swings at. The defender is never in peril. In this case however one wonders what on earth the umbrella could possibly be made from. (More on my reaction to this kind of drill later). There were two interesting, non-contact bouts between two styles of Taekyon versus two nationalities of Pencak Silat. As well as better same vs same bouts between the practioners of the two styles of each. The Arnis demonstrations really smoked and I started to feel better. There were a lot of derogatory comments about the art which showed me that the people in the seats around us didn't really get the intent of Arnis. I got gloomy again. There were double sword drills by almost everybody which all used identical length korean swords or similar sized regional variants and served to really highlight the limited range of motion this weapon choice results in. I learned a few things from this both for good and ill so that cheered me up a bit but my good cheer was soon to be destroyed for good. A really new art invented from a mix of Dutch dancing, TKD and basic hosinsool (self defense techniques) was presented and during the middle of it there was some really misapplied shield, axe and sword techniques which just made me cringe. Overall their set was attractive and the demonstrators were in awesome shape. Their art seemed to promote strong nationalist ties to both the Netherlands and Korea and the physical skills they were showing were impressive. Still, the weapons work showed again that there is a huge difference between learning a skill and learning a form or set of movements. (Here is the more on this later part. It's later now:) This only bothers me because due to the way my mind works I have to question what forms like these are doing in an art if they do not transmit much in the way of gritty particulars. In the setting of this festival they also bothered me because it seemed like the focus was on flash or on stuff which was not necessarily a core part of the arts being shown. In the end I had to draw the conclusion that I must not be a demo person but rather a seminar person when it comes to checking out other martial arts. Despite my bad reaction this year I feel that this festival is a good one and worth attending at least once(if you check the schedule first). There are many places to stay and it's easy to get to and get around (with or without Korean language skills). Awesome food too! ===== Anthony Boyd: Swordsman and English Teacher www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 06:17:30 -0700 (PDT) From: J T To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] 2002 Gathering at Chicago Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net First just let me say that those who were close to Chicago, but didn't make, SHAME ON YOU!!! :) This weekend was one of the most excellent displays of martial art brotherhood and sisterhood around. I was honored to meet GM Timmerman and his students face to face for the first time, and let me say that he is an excellent teacher as well as a great guy to just hang with. Another great instructor and fine gentleman was GM Cyrus. His lecture on biomechanics was an eye opener and I look forward to reading more about it in the January issue of TKDTimes (unless he would be so kind as to send me an advanced copy) ;) I could go on and on about the rest of the events, but it would take up several DD's to cover it all. :) Next year the event will be in Sacramento. I highly recommend others to attend this event. The only thing you have to lose is your ignorance. Jeremy __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest