Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 11:03:07 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #477 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Hapkido in Tulsa (MAN1WOLF@aol.com) 2. Sulsa? (Ray Terry) 3. Is hangeul world's first invented alphabet? (Ray Terry) 4. Fred's Gi And Dobak Question (Charles Veuleman) 5. Bruce Says Try Some Stuff Out (Charles Veuleman) 6. Kuksul & Han Mu Do (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 7. videos (Chris Holmes) 8. Thoughts on Hyung Practice for Bruce (Denise Lee) 9. Anon emails (Jye nigma) 10. RE: Terminology (Farral, Kim) 11. Re: RE: Terminology (Ray Terry) 12. Chinese cane (Burdick, Dakin Robert) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: MAN1WOLF@aol.com Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 19:20:30 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido in Tulsa Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net 
There ia  Kuk sool School in Broken Arow Oklahoma. Thanks

--__--__--

Message: 2
From: Ray Terry 
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:19:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [The_Dojang] Sulsa?
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

> Does anyone on this list study sul sa or sul sa do?

As in the art of the infamous Lee Brothers, the "Korean Ninjas"??? 

Ray Terry
rterry@idiom.com

--__--__--

Message: 3
From: Ray Terry 
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:52:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [The_Dojang] Is hangeul world's first invented alphabet?
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Forwarded message:


Is hangeul world's first invented alphabet?
By Choe Yong-shik Staff reporter
khjack@koreaherald.co.kr
2002.10.09

The three East Asian countries - China, Japan and Korea - share many
similarities in their cultural heritage as a result of ceaseless interaction
among themselves over the course of their history. But the similarities 
abruptly end with their markedly different linguistic traditions.

There are three fundamental kinds of writing systems: logographic,
syllabic and alphabetic. They differ from one another in the kinds of
units their symbols represent. Basically, the three systems evolved one
from the other in that order, but all three are still in use.

In one corner of the world, the neighboring countries of China, Japan
and Korea currently all use these three kinds of writing systems: the
Chinese logographic, the Japanese syllabic and the Korean alphabetic.

In a logographic writing system, each symbol represents a word.
Logographic writing systems developed directly from the oldest form of
written communication: pictures representing objects of actions. Unlike
a letter of the alphabet, a logographic symbol has no phonetic value,
though the word it represents has a pronunciation.

In a syllabic writing system, each symbol stands for a single syllable
like the Japanese. Since the number of different syllabic sounds in any
language is often less than a hundred, a syllabic written language is much
easier to learn than a logographic system with its thousands of characters.

The most advanced form of writing system, the alphabetic system refers
to a set of graphs or characters to represent the phonetic structure of
a language. In usual cases, each alphabetic character represents either
a consonant or a vowel.

Linguists and historians share the view that the alphabet was not the
invention of a single person. They point out that the writing system,
including the Roman and Greek alphabets, was produced by a gradual
evolution of written language from primitive picture drawings or partial
addition of new characters afterwards.

A sheer exception to this universal rule is the Korean alphabetic system
known as hangeul, which was invented through a deliberate effort within
just a few years.

Hangeul was created under the initiative of King Sejong during the
Joseon Dynasty (1392-1910) in 1444 and proclaimed in 1446 under the name
Hunmin-jeongeum, which literally meant "the Correct Sounds for the
Instruction of the People." When first promulgated, the "correct sounds"
had 28 letters in all, of which only 24 are in use nowadays. 

It is Hangeul Day today, which marks the 556th anniversary of its birth.

The creation of the Hunmin-jeongeum was a remarkable accomplishment.
Creating consonants based on a person's speech organs and vowels based
on the shapes of the sky, land and man was truly a revolutionary and
unprecedented process.

An even more fascinating about the invention of the Korean phonetic
script is that it was the manifestation of a single man's insight and
idea - King Sejong.

Most people might easily be convinced that hangeul is too scientific and
advanced to come from a single man's effort. As widely believed in Korea,
they presumptuously conclude that it should be a product of a team effort
between the king and a handful of his reform-minded scholar officials,
including Sin Suk-ju and Seong Sam-mun.

However, historical records, including the Annals of the Joseon Dynasty,
support that the scholar officials, who were affiliated with the court
research institute of Jiphyeonjeon, played a very limited role or hardly
even aware of a new writing system in the making. In other words, the new
script project was carried out in a clandestine manner by the king who
was a great scholar and scientist, himself.

In point of fact, Seong Sam-mun (1418-1456) was barely a new face at
Jiphyeonjeon, while Sin Suk-ju (1417-1475) was sent to Japan as an envoy
in the early 1440s when hangeul began to take shape.

Instead, these young scholars left a mark in making practical use of
hangeul and served as the brain in publishing a series of early court
documents based on the new script.

Only after the news of the new script was released, noted Confucian
scholars like Choe Man-lin, vice chief of Jiphyeonjeon, vehemently
rallied against the idea of having a new script in addition to the Chinese.

"At that time, the creation of hangeul was perceived as a 'dangerous'
idea to the ruling class who monopolized the communication channels with
their knowledge of complex Chinese characters," said Kim Se-joong, chief
of the hangeul research division at the state-run Korean Language Academy.

"The scholarly profile of King Sejong is often overshadowed by his
status as a ruler, but he was a great linguist and scientist with
insight and compassion for the people," he noted.

--__--__--

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 21:41:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Charles Veuleman 
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Subject: [The_Dojang] Fred's Gi And Dobak Question
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Fred,

We don't practice TSD, but my group loves Kamikaze brand uniforms.  I
have also heard good things about Tokaido uniforms.  I haven't had too
much luck with Asian world, and my instructor told me their house brand
gi's fell apart in a few washings.  

YITMA,

Charlie Veuleman

=====
-------------------------------------
      L. Charles Veuleman
    Natchitoches Karate Institute
      204 Rapides Drive
Natchitoches, LA 71457  318-356-7727
  http://www.bluewavekarate.com
-------------------------------------

--__--__--

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 22:25:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Charles Veuleman 
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Subject: [The_Dojang] Bruce Says Try Some Stuff Out
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Bruce and Charles

Nathan and I will definitly be working on the "elusive third kata's",
and hopefully it will really turn some heads in our system.  I hate
leaving stuff undone ya know.  As for now though bruce, I can't justify
jumping ahead, since I still have Ship Su and Chul Gi 2 in front of me.
 As far as the weapons thing goes, I think weapons really help your
regular kata.  I am sure you would agree with that.  I know after doing
bo forms, while I am sitting at a fast food place eating some nurishing
grease, remember the scene from Coming to America where A. Hall gets
after it with the dry mop handle.  As far as sai, I like them, think
they are 'neato' but I just do the kata.  If I ever get attacked and I
happen (yeah right) to have them on me, i will probably just throw them
far away and use Chul Gi.  :D  Nunchaku arn't so bad, but, man it's
hard to beat expeirienced feet and hands, or more importantly,
expeirience.  

By the way, I have always wondered about Hapkido Kata.  Could you give
me a readers digest version, or is it as federation dependant as TKD?

YITMA

Charlie Veuleman



=====
-------------------------------------
      L. Charles Veuleman
    Natchitoches Karate Institute
      204 Rapides Drive
Natchitoches, LA 71457  318-356-7727
  http://www.bluewavekarate.com
-------------------------------------

--__--__--

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 08:25:49 -0500
From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" 
To: 
Subject: [The_Dojang] Kuksul & Han Mu Do
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Chris Holmes wrote:
>
> I just wanted to make a clarification on your statement that Han Mu Do
is a
> Kuk Sul derivative.  This is an over simplification.

Perhaps, but it is fairly accurate, right?  I know that Dr. Kimm was
affiliated with not only the hapkido folks, but also kuksul, and my
impression of the art was that followed a similar route to kuksul; ie.
the development of a nationalist martial art for Korea that combined a
number of techniques from other styles.

I have to mention that when I talked with Dr. Kimm's students in Chicago
at the Chuck Norris Martial Arts Expo a few years ago, they told me that
the Han Mu Do book had been put together by cutting out techniques from
a hapkido book, a judo book, and a t'aekwondo book.  I know that Dr.
Kimm is a talented, knowledgeable instructor and will develop the art
into something greater than that, but I was pretty amazed that his
students would say something like that!

Yours in the arts,

Dakin Burdick
dakinburdick@yahoo.com

--__--__--

Message: 7
From: "Chris Holmes" 
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 09:51:00 -0500
Subject: [The_Dojang] videos
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Hey Mr. Terry,

There were plans to have a video of the forms out by now, but I think that 
along with other projects has been put on the back burner until Do Ju Nim 
finishes his latest book.  I am just waiting like everyone else for this 
latest book. I think it will be very enlightining for some people.
Hope this helps.
Han,

Chris Holmes


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

--__--__--

Message: 8
From: "Denise Lee" 
To: 
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:36:44 -0400
Subject: [The_Dojang] Thoughts on Hyung Practice for Bruce
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Bruce wondered:

"What I was wondering is whether it would be better to go back to the way
the kata/hyung were originally performed in Okinawa -- or even China --
rather than use the renditions organized first by OS Funakoshi, then
re-structured by his son and OS Nakayama. What this would look like would be
rather dramatic but I think in the long-run more meaningful."

The following was recently posted on the Warrior-Scholar Discussion Board by
Kyoshi C.M. Cunningham. (I believe he is a Shotokan 7th Dan. Kyoshi
Cunningham is very well-versed in the TSD Hyung as he my former TSD
instructor have been working out together for several years now, in a
comparative & investigative study of hyung/kata.)

"Actually, at least to my eye, most of the TSD kata look far closer to the
present day kata of Okinawan Matsubayashi-ryu Shorin than they do to the
kata that is currently taught in most mainline Shotokan systems today. As
well they should, since Shotokan is basically a combination of Shorin
(Japanese for Shaloin) and Shorei styles. When Funakoshi first introduced
karate to mainland Japan in the early 1920's, these kata were as yet
unchanged from their original configurations.

Although Funakoshi renamed most of the kata, to make them more acceptable to
the Japanese, very few of those names he gave the kata are used today, and
much of the name differences between the Okinawan kata and the Japanese kata
is in the difference between the spelling of those two languages. In
addition, most of the modifications done to the Shotokan kata of the JKA
were done after World War II, and therefore probably after the period of
time when TSD was being influenced by Shotokan. However, Rohai was not among
these kata, and the Shotokan kata Meikyo that is referred to as being a
version of Rohai, is more likely a combination of Sh*to-ryu's Rohai two and
three, and was designed by Gigo Funakoshi, Gichin's youngest son, who was
also responsible for of all those long and low stances of modern Shotokan.

Since Ohtsuku broke away from Shotokan sometime in the 1930's, it stands to
reason that the Wado kata are probably much closer to Funakoshi's original
Shorin versions, than to the JKA's, as that organization was not formed
until the late 1940's or early 1950's. Take note though, that Wado
originally only used about 9 or 10 kata in their system, since the founder
was not as enthralled with the performance of kata as was Funakoshi.
Kyoshi

I hope this helps.
Denise Lee
intentlee@snet.net

--__--__--

Message: 9
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:30:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jye nigma 
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Subject: [The_Dojang] Anon emails
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

I am new to this list and found it shocking that
someone got threatened by someone for debating a point
(from what I understand). 

Should this happen to anyone else, remember these key
points:

1) do not delete the email. even though it may be an
anon email system like yahoo, hotmail, etc, the IP
address may be tracked to a specific ISP.

2) you may want to go to the authorities.

3) make sure you don't have personal/sensitive
information stored in your address books like your
home address.

Let's represent the martial arts with honor and
respect! We must remember that as we move into the
future, more information will become available about
certain things so some things we study as martial
artists may be viewed as wrong.

With respect to all,
Jye


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

--__--__--

Message: 10
From: "Farral, Kim" 
To: 'Dojang' 
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:37:00 -0500 
Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Terminology
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Andrew...

The following should give you a very good start in your search...

Your instructor should have a listing of the Korean terms commonly used in
your class...Book stores such as Barnes and Noble have a selection of Korean
dictionaries and language tapes...if you have a computer...there are many
Korean terminology wed sites...do a search for Korean Terminology...



   Pil Seung!

The One and Only
     "Tink"

  Kim G. Farral 
  5th Dan TKD

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************************************ 

--__--__--

Message: 11
From: Ray Terry 
Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Terminology
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:46:42 -0700 (PDT)
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

For KMA terms check out that section of the KMA FAQ.

Ray Terry
rterry@idiom.com

--__--__--

Message: 12
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:49:06 -0500
From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" 
To: 
Subject: [The_Dojang] Chinese cane
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Bruce asked about Chinese cane.  Yes, there's several styles.  There's
one style out on the Shaolin tapes that came out in the early 1990s.
There's also a very good cane stylist by the name of Almanzo Lamoureux.
He comes into Bloomington, Indiana, occasionally to teach.  I haven't
worked out with him but Zach and everyone else has very good things to
say.  You can see some stuff about him at:

http://www.chinwoo.com/tcl2001/2001seminars/LaoMa.html

and at:

http://www.magictortoise.com/classdescript.htm

The guy who organizes his seminars locally is Randy Pardue.  His email
is:

rpardue@indiana.edu

Yours in the arts,

Dakin Burdick
dakinburdick@yahoo.com


--__--__--

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