Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 11:29:26 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #482 - 16 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Welcome (michael tomlinson) 2. (no subject) (Marj) 3. pyongahns and kushanku (Troy Trudeau) 4. 22nd Tekno Ft. Worth Intl (Luc T. Nguyen) 5. Day 2 Results from Pan Am's (fwd) (Ray Terry) 6. RE: Thanks for the help (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 7. Grey-beard File (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 8. Re: Chubby Grandmaster in FLA (Beungood@aol.com) 9. Re:Han Mu Do (Beungood@aol.com) 10. Re: First Strikes = Bad Hapkido (Victor Cushing) 11. Which Martial Art? (ds) 12. Froms website (Paul Monier) 13. Fear of Jumping (mfalba@cox.net) 14. Hapkido Offense (Patrick L) 15. Re: Froms website (Ray Terry) 16. RE: Which Martial Art? (Martin, Patrick Marvin) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 00:29:43 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Welcome Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Welcome aboard Chris, we argue, disagree, agree, and basically try to learn more than we all knew the day before in here,, but you know me, I wouldn't have it any other way!!! I will say without a doubt that even though I've disagreed with a few in here know one has acted vendictive to me or gotten personal on here, enjoy and fire away,,, Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:56:36 -0500 From: Marj To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] (no subject) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Are there any documents that give statistics showing that self-defense should be taught in schools? --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 05:59:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Troy Trudeau To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] pyongahns and kushanku Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Mac would be correct, I studied wado ryu and shotokan for several years before turning to the korean martial arts, and hold Dan ranks in both styles, kusanku or kwanku is its own form that was developed after passai or bassai. For more information , reference the series on Karate Do by Nakayama Sensei, founder of the Japan Karate Association. Troy Trudeau, www.wtswa.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Luc T. Nguyen" To: Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 10:00:12 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] 22nd Tekno Ft. Worth Intl Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net 22nd Tekno Ft. Worth Intl Oct 19-20 Ft. Worth, Texas Have anyone have any experience with this tournament? We are planning to participate this year. Thank you for any information Luc Nguyen --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 07:28:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Day 2 Results from Pan Am's (fwd) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net KAY POE - GOLD SANAZ SHABAZI - SILVER ANTONY GRAF - BRONZE FIN WEIGHT MEN FERREIRA, MARCEL - BRAZIL - GOLD ALTAMIRANO, GERALDY - ECUADOR - SILVER SALCEDOR, GINO - COLUMBIA - BRONZE MERREDES, GABRIELD - DOMINICAN REPUBLIC - BRONZE -DAVID MONTALVO LOST HIS FIRST MATCH TO ECUADOR AND HE TORE HIS CALF MUSCLE. WOMEN POE, KAY - USA - GOLD CASTANEDA, YOLANDA - GUATEMALA - SILVER SANTIAGO, ZORAIDA - PUERTO RICO - BRONZE SANCHEZ, SUSANA - ECUADOR - BRONZE -KAY DID REALLY WELL ALL DAY. LIGHT WEIGHT MEN RAMERZ, JOSE - MEXICO - GOLD FRANCOES, JEAN - CANADA - SILVER MARTINS, RODRIGO - BRAZIL - BRONZE ISHOSVANY, PEREZ - CUBA - BRONZE -RYAN FLONEK BEAT GUATAMALA IN HIS FIRST ROUND AND LOST TO BRAZIL IN A TIE. WOMEN DIAZ, PUERTO RICO - GOLD SANCHEZ VERON, VANINE - ARGENTINA - SILVER FELIX, PAOLA - MEXICO - BRONZE MERO, CARMEN - ECUADOR - BRONZE -ELIZABETH MOHAMMED LOST IN HER FIRST ROUND TO ARGENTINA MIDDLE WEIGHT CALODIA, ANGEL - CUBA - GOLD LUNA, EDDY - DOMINCAN REPUBLIC - SILVER VALVERDE, VANDER - BRAZIL - BRONZE GRAF, ATHONY - USA - BRONZE -TONY BEAT PERU IN HIS FIRST MATCH AND WAS WINNING 8 TO 1 AGAINST DOMINCAN REPUBLIC WHEN HE GOT 6 DEDUCTION POINTS AND LOST. WOMEN PEREIRA, YODANKA - CUBA - GOLD SHAHBAZI, SANAZ - USA - SILVER TORRES, KARLA - MEXICO - BRONZE CARTRIGHT, JOELLE, HAITI - BRONZE Brackets from Day one are available at www.ustu.org ____________________________________________________________ US Taekwondo One Olympic Plaza Ste 104C Colorado Springs, CO 80909 --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 10:10:32 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Thanks for the help Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jere: ".....Sorry Bruce, your answer was just about the WHF, not hapkido in general...." Thanks for helping me to stay framed. Like everyone I am a product of my background and can always use help when there is the possibility of what I am saying specific to WHF or Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido practice to be confused in a generalization to ALL Hapkido arts. Obviously one would not expect KSW, KSD, HRD or even Sin Mu Hapkido to practice hyung of GM Myungs' organization.Thanks again. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 10:31:48 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Grey-beard File Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Pat: "......Good morning, I am young at martial arts however in my 50's. I seem to have a terrible fear of jumping especially for the jump side kick. To jump from a standing position seems to overcome me with fear. Can anyone help with any techniques to overcome this fear, especially of my legs not seeming strong enough to hold my fall?...." I know exactly what you are speaking of as I am involved in exactly the same challenge in my own training. Apparently we are both at the same place in pushing the edges of our respective envelopes. Here is what I have found for myself. 1.) As I get older I have less and less on confidence that my body is able to read and execute techniques which require split-second monitoring and correction relating execution and balance or orientation. This is not as true when I perform a sophisticated HKD technique while in contact with the ground (ie. Standing, sitting, lying down, etc.). The true challenge is when I leave the ground and no longer have that contact as a reference point for my body motion. Historically I had never been really good at this in my MA career but it has grown more of a challenge now that I am over fifty. 2.) In hand with point one I have noticed that my reflexes are not as sharpt and I find myself more challenged by my students in drills and one-steps than I had been previously. 3.) As with point #1 I have never been very confident of take-offs and landings without injuries to my ankles and knees. Its always been more of a mental challenge but its has grown worse with age. I won't guarentee that the following will be of any help to you but here are some of the things I work on to stave of the March of Time which is slowly treading across my bod and mind. a.) Where possible I ratchet down my performance by substituting a technique which approximates the higher level of performance. Two examples are in the hyung I practice. In Wae Ki Hyung Sae I am expected to perform a Jump side kick from a static, standing position. Instead I perform a skip-in (substitute) side kick. In the same hyung I am expected to perform a jump-spinning heel kick. For this I execute a spinning heel kick. In both cases the kicks I use approximate the kicks required but allow that important connection with the ground to facilitate orientation. b.) I stay up on conditioning drills that encourage my ankles, knees and hips to be able to comfortably take the stress of shuffling, skipping, jumping and kicking. The important part here is not that you will ACTUALLY do these things on a regular basis or in combination but that you don't overlook keeping these joints in shape should you ever be REQUIRED to do these things. c.) Lastly, I do a lot more range of motion kinds of things in my daily life. We all know that stretching for practice is important. However, I usually take a couple of minutes throughout the day to bend and strech a bit. I also am religious about nutrition that supports flexibility and healing-- when necessary. I know a lot of people mention "pulled muscles" and seem to characterize them as acute episodes. Maybe its just me but I have noticed that whenever I have "pulled something" my body had actually been giving me fair warning in advance that I chose to ignore. Slow and steady does it. There is no reason that you can't continue to train throughout your life, but age requires us to train smarter and not harder as we grow older. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 12:15:49 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Chubby Grandmaster in FLA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 10/11/02 9:45:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Funny story... A rather chubby Grandmasterwannabe down Florida way tried > to tell me a year ago that Gm Chon had died. Imagine Gm Chon's surprise > to hear that he was no longer with us... :) > > Does that chubby grandmaster resemble "Flounder" from animal house and have an equally fat wife? Does he with a super Fat Yudo "Master" ? who ,when wearing his dobuk, looks like he has a labcoat on? --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 12:18:14 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:Han Mu Do Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 10/11/02 9:45:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > I know that Dojunim is eager to demonstrate and share the uniqueness of Han > Mu Do as a totally different martial art based on Korean tradition. His > What seperates and makes special this Art from KUK sool, HApkido and Yudo? How is it different or in other words what has Dojunim created to make it a new art? Thanks, Jack --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 12:24:55 -0400 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Victor Cushing Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: First Strikes = Bad Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce Sims " It does not, however, justify a "hit-them-before-they-hit-you" rationale. I am not sure this is what the author of this article was actually advocating but I see plenty of "wiggleroom" for someone to use that article to support such a position. I think this is unfortunate. FWIW. " I support the position of using first strike when conditions warrant them. The response must = the threat. There are times when hitting first is not only justified, but is simply a matter of survival. While the IMHF applauds the notion that we should use awareness to detect and avoid potential problems, and if presented with a confrontation we will attempt to defuse it by talking calmly when possible, we also teach the application of First Strikes (and I have used them myself on several occasions). If faced with desparate odds: surrounded with 2 or 3 large attackers who have made it clear by words or gestures that they mean to do you serious bodily harm. facing a single attacker that has either shown or indicated that he/she has a weapon, intends to use it, and is close enough to do do... faced with a much younger, bigger stronger attacker who has you blocked off and is preparing to attack... You would be justified under Illinois law to use deadly force, so why the heck can't you hit/kick someone first? It is a bit idealistic and perhaps naive to think that all situations can be deal with using only a calm voice, reason, and then waiting until someone else has made a first strike, you may not survive the initial strike. A personal story: I used to own Flanagan's, an Irish Pub, at 2939 North Broadway between Wellington and Oakdale, in Chicago. at 03:00 Hrs on a Saturday night (really early Sunday AM) I left the bar (sober by the way) and caught a cab to my apartment at 829 West Newport. The driver apparently assuming that anyone leaving a bar at 3:00 AM was a drunk drove all over the north side running a $2.00 cab ride into a $17.00 fare. When we finally stopped a block from my apartment on North Halsted, he asked for the $17.00. I told him that all I owed him was $2.00, There was no door handle on the inside of the passenger door on the right side of the cab. As I exited on the driver's side into traffic, he jumped out, blocked my way (cab door open, he is standing in the space I need to go through to leave), saying he had a knife and would cut me if I didn't pay. I palm heeled him under the chin, spun him around and banged his face into the roof of the cab. Chicago PD rolled up, (23rd District is 2 blocks away), yelling at me to let go of him, I yelled back that he had threatened me with a knife and that they should grab both of us. They did, he had cocaine on his person, marijuana in a bag under the front seat....and a 7" knife in a sheath at his back. I never saw the knife, didn't wait for him to draw it. I hit him first. He was arrested, I wasn't. Enuff said. Vic Cushing --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 18:56:16 +0100 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: ds Subject: [The_Dojang] Which Martial Art? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi, This is actually my first post. I understand that this forum is specialized in Korean martial arts, but maybe you can also help me with a little more general question. My name is Daniel and I would like to start training a martial art. I just don't know which one and I thought you could maybe help me deciding, since my knowledge is extremely limited. I understand that it is not possible to answer questions like "What is the best martial art?", because they are simply different, not better or worse. I guess it depends on what is the best art for one specific person. But how do I know what is best for me? I will start by giving you some information about myself. Maybe then you could suggest a fitting art. I am 19 years old, male, 1.86 m (about 6'2") tall and weigh about 75 kg. I have two main goals concerning training martial arts. First: I want to learn street-appliable self-defense. Second: I want to shape my character, explore myself, etc. I have no interest whatsoever in taking part in competitions or other sporting events. I have already spent some time looking through the internet for information. I think I prefer well balanced martial arts, that use soft and hard techniques, punches and kicks and locks and utiliarize circular as well as linear motions, while tending more to circular and soft than to linear and hard movements. Also it should not be extremely physically demanding. I do not want to spent all of my free time doing body workouts. But since I have absolutely no experience with martial arts, I would not take these preferences too seriously, since they might change when I start training something and begin to understand what that stuff is all about. By browsing the web I have found the following arts to be interesting: HapKiDo Wing Chun Jeet Kune Do Baguazhang (Pa Kua Chang) Hwa Rang Do Praying Mantis (Tanglangquan/Tanglangpai) Shogerijutsu Shuaijiao Xingyiquan Yoseikan Budo Now, the problem is, that in order to really decide between these arts, I guess I would have to try them all out. And not only once, but for a year at least. That is, of course, not possible. :-( That's why I am asking for your help. Thank you very much, Daniel -- There is a time and a bass for everything. --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Paul Monier" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 17:03:10 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Froms website Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A sew weeks ago someone (?) lsited a site with a great number fo forms videos. I thought I had it bookmarked but can not seem to find it again. If anyone has the link or another good line to forms page please reply. Monier sahbum _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 13 From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 13:14:50 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Fear of Jumping Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey Pat: I'm 45 years old and have been practicing Tae Kwon Do for about three years now. I work out religiously at least three times per week if not more. One thing that I found early on is that jumping is a large part of the program, and one is definitely at a disadvantage beginning at a later age. Gravity has a much more profound effect on me than my younger classmates, but practice has worked and and I have reached Cho Dan Bo level. Hopefully I will test for 1st Dan sometime next summer. I will tell you how it's worked for me. I Warm up and stretch well before class. For my jumping techniques, I go through the motions without jumping prior to jumping, and I don't over exert myself. That way when I need to perform and show a technique, I'm ready. When I first started jumping, jump side kick, jump spinning kick, etc., I was so uncoordinated that I became disoriented during the technique and hit the deck often. There for, I practiced on a mat and tried not to jump too, too high so that if I did go down, I didn't get hurt. With practice, and practice as well as good instruction I think was the key, the techniques became smoother and I became more confident. I can't at age 45 jump as high as my 25 year old classmates, but I can jump fairly well for my age. And through careful practice, warming up well and stretching, using gym mats, etc., I have been able to get to where I am without injury. Another benefit of TKD is that over the last three years I have become about 40 lbs lighter which has decreased wear and tear in my joints and frame and that has been helpful. I can relate to the fear factor and that at a later age we do not get up as fast, or heal as fast as we did when we were younger, but keep practicing and don't give up. You will get to where you need to be. Good luck. Mike Falba New Orleans, LA --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Patrick L" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 10:52:46 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido Offense Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Mr. McHie, Mr. Enloe's Hapkido and mine are very similar in technique. Sometimes in Self-defense one must engage an individual who is not at that moment punching, kicking, or grabbing. Sometimes uncooperative charges (inmates) must be encouraged to comply with directions. And as you pointed out sometimes action is required in the defense of others. Assaulting someone who has made/taken no offensive action however is NOT something we encourage. Getting in the WAY, Patrick >I was wondering if anyone had any comments or thoughts on the recent article in Black Belt magazine entitled "First Blood: Hapkido's Answer to Imminent Aggression Is the Pre-Emptive Strike" by Frank Enloe. . . . My understanding is that Hapkido is primarily self-defense oriented, but in that vein I would think pre-emptive or first-strike techniques would be particularly valuable since my motivation in such a situation would be to engage an opponent offensively so that they had to disengage an attack on my wife, etc So I was just giving the issue some thought and in reviewing the article I thought I would also solicit some opinions from the list. Thanks in advance for any thoughts posted. Jim McHie Jr.< _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx --__--__-- Message: 15 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Froms website To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 10:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > A sew weeks ago someone (?) lsited a site with a great number fo forms > videos. I thought I had it bookmarked but can not seem to find it again. > > If anyone has the link or another good line to forms page please reply. It might have been Master Mac's website. It is linked to off martialartsresource.com Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 16 From: "Martin, Patrick Marvin" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Which Martial Art? Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 13:08:37 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Daniel -- My only credential for answering your post is that I'm a newcomer myself. I went through the same thought process as yourself recently -- I knew what I wanted (i.e. completeness of techniques, self-defense-oriented, non-competition-oriented). Hapkido seemed to meet all those needs for me, and after sitting in on a few classes at a local school, I decided it was right for me and it's become an important part of my life. Hapkido! As for the level of physical demand, I can only speak from my own experience. Probably the most physically intense activity for me is the stretching. We also do a little jogging and the usual push-ups, sit-ups, etc, but that's by no means grueling. Most of our time is spent on techniques -- breathing exercises, falling, self-defense. Many of the techniques "hurt" -- joint locks and things of that nature, but as you become more flexible, the soreness subsides. You can't help but get an aerobic workout, because there is alot of movement. Every time, I leave class very tired but invigorated. I'd go everyday if I could, such are the benefits to me personally. Hopefully a school in your area will allow you to try out a few sessions for free, rather than pushing you to immediately sign an enrollerment contract. Patrick Martin -----Original Message----- From: ds [mailto:orthanc@macnews.de] Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 12:56 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Which Martial Art? Hi, This is actually my first post. I understand that this forum is specialized in Korean martial arts, but maybe you can also help me with a little more general question. My name is Daniel and I would like to start training a martial art. I just don't know which one and I thought you could maybe help me deciding, since my knowledge is extremely limited. I understand that it is not possible to answer questions like "What is the best martial art?", because they are simply different, not better or worse. I guess it depends on what is the best art for one specific person. But how do I know what is best for me? I will start by giving you some information about myself. Maybe then you could suggest a fitting art. I am 19 years old, male, 1.86 m (about 6'2") tall and weigh about 75 kg. I have two main goals concerning training martial arts. First: I want to learn street-appliable self-defense. Second: I want to shape my character, explore myself, etc. I have no interest whatsoever in taking part in competitions or other sporting events. I have already spent some time looking through the internet for information. I think I prefer well balanced martial arts, that use soft and hard techniques, punches and kicks and locks and utiliarize circular as well as linear motions, while tending more to circular and soft than to linear and hard movements. Also it should not be extremely physically demanding. I do not want to spent all of my free time doing body workouts. But since I have absolutely no experience with martial arts, I would not take these preferences too seriously, since they might change when I start training something and begin to understand what that stuff is all about. By browsing the web I have found the following arts to be interesting: HapKiDo Wing Chun Jeet Kune Do Baguazhang (Pa Kua Chang) Hwa Rang Do Praying Mantis (Tanglangquan/Tanglangpai) Shogerijutsu Shuaijiao Xingyiquan Yoseikan Budo Now, the problem is, that in order to really decide between these arts, I guess I would have to try them all out. And not only once, but for a year at least. That is, of course, not possible. :-( That's why I am asking for your help. Thank you very much, Daniel -- There is a time and a bass for everything. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest