Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 18:15:02 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #512 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Re: Women's Self Defense Course (Jye nigma) 2. Women's self-defense (Ray Terry) 3. Pinching for Self Defense (Dave Weller) 4. James Webb Knife videos (Randall Sexton) 5. Re: Pinching for Self Defense (Jye nigma) 6. Re: Hams (Lee Fisk) 7. Re: James Webb Knife videos (Ray Terry) 8. RE: RE>counters (Michael Forman) 9. Re: Re: hamstring operations (Jye nigma) 10. Women's Self Defence - The Mount Escape (Kim Sullivan) 11. Re: Re: Hams (Jye nigma) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:37:54 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Women's Self Defense Course To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Here's my approach Ron. Stay professional, and just get past the uncomfortable feelings. I think you being a man is perfect for you to teach this course especially if you are a large man, because when they see that their training can effectively get you off of them let's say in the mount position, you being a man and being on top of them will be the furthest thing from their minds. Now to add a little comfort you can have another person, an assistant to help you. But I think if you don't pair up with the women they will lose out. Honestly, I would perform different holds, and mounted positions on all the women to show the different variations of hold someone down according to size, weight, height, etc. This approach is no different then being in TKD class and getting paired up with a woman for self defense, but believe me I know what you mean because when I was learning some ground fighting techniques, I was paired up with a beautiful women and really felt uncomfortable with her sitting in my lap....we were performing an application where someone is grabbing you from the back, and you bend over push your butt into them while pulling their leg making them fall and you basically sit ontop of them. I was uncomfortable but I stayed focus because If my concentration broke someone could have gotten hurt. So just stay focused on your goal, do it and before you know it, it will all be over. Jye --- Ron Bain wrote: > Serious question for anyone on male instructors > teaching a Women's Self > Defense course. You mentioned the ground training, > which is a valid point. > How should a Male approach teaching these techniques > to an all female class? > For example the Mount position (and variations). __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 14:45:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Women's self-defense Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Note the following. Actually taken from near the very end of this catalog. An approach that has not yet been raised... :) Sorry, but can't send the associated pics/jgps via the list. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com ======================================================================= >From the Faganarms Catalog. Antique Arms, Armor, and Related Items. August 2002 issue. MADE SOLELY TO KILL UNFAITHFUL HUSBANDS! The legendary Rubins Collection contained many extraordinary items. Some of which are illustrated in African Weapons (Spring) and are now on display at the Museum of Mankind, London. It would be hard to top one specific part of the collection: the husband killing daggers from New Guinea. Gathered over a decade, during which Rubin Rubins literally turned the ethnographic market on its ear, they certainly represent all the examples sold in that period. In fact, as with much of his acquisition, many probably never would have reached the market except for the financial pressure which he generated. We have them all and have cherished them for their beauty as well as their unique function. These were created specifically to kill unfaithful husbands in their sleep. Each is made of a large bone -- human or sometimes cassowary. Some are decorated with a woven cover which serves as the grip and a cluster of feathers which serves as a signal when the deed is done. Each truly represents one extreme of human behavior and weapons use as well as a rare example of a lethal weapon made by a woman. #292 FINE AND VERY EARLY EXAMPLE. 12 1/4" overall one piece bone. The upper part with deep purple pigment and cut with a single transverse line. Tapered to the sharp point. Untouched with deep patina and medium encrustation 185.00 #293 ANOTHER. Tribal variation. 13 1/4" bone dagger tapered to a sharp point. The joint encased in a heavy woven mesh to which is attached eight pendants forming a square of three per side. Each pendant comprised of two clusters of elegant feathers connected with double rows of shells capped by a large red seed flanking a central natural tubular bead (coral?). Owing to the mating displays unique to the birds of New Guinea, their plumage is unparalleled for beauty and has always been an integral part of native culture. Excellent with fine deep age patina 215.00 #294 ANOTHER OF IDENTICAL FORM. 14" bone dagger with the joint encased and suspended with nine feather, shell and seed ornaments. Condition matching 215.00 #295 ANOTHER OF IDENTICAL FORM. 15" bone dagger with slightly expanded point. The joint encased and suspended with nine feather, shell and seed ornaments as with the previous examples. Condition matching 225.00 #296 ANOTHER. Tribal variation. Unadorned bone with uniform patina indicating that it never was covered. 13 1/4" overall with more rounded point. The joint incised with hound's tooth hatching and the entire body laboriously incised with deep transverse lines-undoubtedly to make the occasion more memorable! That work appears to have been done with stone tools and this example likely pre contact. Fine rich patina throughout with some darkening toward the point 190.00 --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:22:02 -0600 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Dave Weller Subject: [The_Dojang] Pinching for Self Defense Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Mr. Jye Nigma Wrote: >Snip-> Try this, have a really >muscular person grab you in a head lock real tight, >and with your free hand PINCH the skin on their inner >thigh and watch what happens...lol. They will let go >with quickness! The same is true with the skin on the >triceps. So basically, I exploit our natural >weaknesses. Flesh ripping is something that I'd >suggest as a "in an emergency situation" tactic.<-unsnip > I'm not sure a pinch would stop someone with a strong headlock in place. I will try this in class tonight. I'll let my master headlock me and see if he lets go or squeezes my brains out when i pinch him. I gotta think ripping the flesh might be more effective, or stomping the foot, or gouging the eyes, etc. Adrenaline can mask a WHOLE bunch of pain. Have you ever tried this technique outside the gym in an uncontrolled situation? Just curious, -- dave weller student wtf tkd "Practice a thousand hours and you learn self discipline. Practice ten thousand hours and you learn about yourself." Myamoto Musashi --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Randall Sexton" To: Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 18:13:45 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] James Webb Knife videos Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Don't know about James Webb but you might want to look into James Keating's videos from Paladin press. He seems to be well respected with the blade crowd. >>>Is anyone familiar with the James Webb knife video series from Panther? Can anyone advise as to the quality of the material presented in the videos or to Webb's credentials?>>>> Randall Sexton www.laughinghara.com "When you get there, there isn't any there there." Gertrude Stein --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:58:14 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Pinching for Self Defense To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I'm not sure a pinch would stop someone with a > strong headlock in place. You will be very surprised!!! > I gotta think ripping the flesh might be more > effective, or stomping the foot, or gouging the > eyes, etc. The pinch will make the biggest person crumble. The skin on the inner thigh is so sensitive the initial shock of the pain will make the person let go. > Adrenaline can mask a WHOLE bunch of pain. Have you > ever tried this technique outside the gym in an > uncontrolled situation? > yes I use this to show people how to quickly get out of a head lock, I alway use it on people who let's say play too much while grappling. Jye __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Lee Fisk" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 18:06:18 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Hams Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Many millennia ago when I first tried out TKD I found away to rapidly increase my flexibility without operation. I used to work out on Nautals (sp?)equipment including leg curls; following that I'd do a TKD class including sparring. The results were three hamstring tears in a year. It did increase my flexibility a lot however. Regards, Lee Fisk (Tucson, AZ) Message: 7 From: "wild horse" To: "dojang digest" Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 14:32:26 -0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] hamstring operations Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi all, Just a quick comment regarding the operation on hamstrings to increase flexability. I have a dodgy knee; my knee cap is pulled out of line when I bend my leg by my outside quadricep (vastus lateralis i think). I was given exercises by a physio to try and strengthen my inside quadricep but they didn't work so I was offered an operation to release my outside quadricep, I refused it though. So this is a proper procedure but I still recommend that you increase flexability the 'normal way'. If I'd had that operation, I would have been out of action for 3 months and with no guarentee of it being a benefit. So in my opinion it wasn't worth it and I wouldn't recommend it just to be more flexable because you couldn't be bothered to do a bit of work. Sincerely Wendy.Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] James Webb Knife videos To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:07:56 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Don't know about James Webb but you might want to look into James Keating's > videos from Paladin press. He seems to be well respected with the blade > crowd. Keating is not bad. He frequently acts like he is few blades short of a full set of steak knives, but if you ignore some of his IMHO unsafe training practices (and survive ta'boot) I suspect one can learn something useful. As always, I reserve the right to be wrong. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Michael Forman" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE>counters Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 12:25:25 +1100 Organization: Endurance Electronics Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net DD'ers Briefly coming out of lurk mode. > By the way in another group I asked ninjutsu > practitioners how they would respond to a TKD kicking, > you'd be shocked at the replies! I know that this has been covered already, I just wanted to add one more thing. I believe that most TKDers (of any experience/ability) are aware of the various risks involved in kicking at different heights. Most are also aware of any holes in their particular type of training, ie they will know if they don't do enough ground work etc that they will not be effective in that area. One thing that annoys me is people from other MA's sprouting about how easily they can catch a TKDer when they are kicking at any height above the waist. At one demo I attended (Wing Chun IIRC not that it is significant) they went to great lengths to show the crowd how easy it was to defeat such a kick. The problem was that the person kicking was also one of theirs, and since they don't believe in kicking at chest level, his kicks were less than stunning. This demo showed how easy it was to deflect/catch/whatever this kick. I would say that I would have been able to stand there and let him actually land his kick without any real damage, it was that in-effective. I strongly believe that many of techniques would have gotten the defender seriously hurt had the kicker been any good (some of the techniques were very good however and may well have been effective if used appropriately). My point is that we can raise all sorts of conjecture about how easy it is to 'defeat' a TKD kick, but until these people face up to a well timed and well delivered kick they are IMHO going to be misguided about how easy it is. Kicking is a skill just like any other, and kicks need to be used in the correct manner for the situation to be effective (just like all the other skills). If I practice countering punches delivered by someone who cannot punch well then I will also be misguided about my ability to defeat a punch. As far as I am concerned it all comes down to skill level. If my ability to kick is better than your ability to defend then you are in trouble, if you can defend better than I can kick then if I kick you I will be on the receiving end. Off my soapbox now and lurking. Cheers, Michael --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:29:25 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: hamstring operations To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey Wendy, when you perform kicks don't lock out your leg. I would try lifting light weights but doing a high number of reps. If you are indeed feeling pain I would say listen to youe Physio and maybe get another opinion, also invest in one of those knee braces. Jye __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Kim Sullivan" To: Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 19:45:35 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Women's Self Defence - The Mount Escape Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> The answer is, it depends (don't you hate those kind of answers). What type of self defense class is it? If it is all or mostly composed of women who have been victims (most classes will have some) do not plan to demonstrate on the women initially. In other words, bring one of your female students who does not have a problem with this type of situation or bring a male assistant for demos. Then let the female students practice with a woman "attacker". After some time and adjustment, the women should practice with a male "attacker" so that they will be able to do the same on the street if needed. Women who have been victims will need more time with this. The mount is a closed (or enclosing) position which makes it particularly frightening for former victims and/or sensitive individuals. Take it slow. You have to do some desensitizing before some folks, especially women, will be ready to deal with a male partner as an "attacker". Also, be aware that the mount with both of the persons hands restrained can cause an even higher level of anxiety. Try to find a way to work up to these without chasing the students off. Again, if you can't, they likely won't be able to defend themselves should the situation arise in an even more unfriendly environment. Just think ten years ago, I didn't like this type of practice, now I roll around on the floor with my male partners all the time. ;-) No problem. Good luck with your program, ---Kim --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:44:21 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Hams To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Oh My goodness....I wouldn't want to tear my hamstring, did it heal completely? Jye --- Lee Fisk wrote: > Many millennia ago when I first tried out TKD I > found away to rapidly increase > my flexibility without operation. I used to work out > on Nautals (sp?)equipment > including leg curls; following that I'd do a TKD > class including sparring. The > results were three hamstring tears in a year. It did > increase my flexibility a > lot however. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest