Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:45:03 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #514 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Today's Topics: 1. the power of the pinch (Joshua Duncan) 2. Happy Halloween (A. Boyd) 3. RE: Pinching (Morgan James) 4. RE: Pinching...whatever. (Stovall, Craig) 5. Women's Self Defense Class (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 6. One Punch, One Kill....Kiaaaaiiiiii (Stovall, Craig) 7. Pain Tolerance (Dave Weller) 8. Re: Pinches (Eric Walker) 9. Business Plan (Westport Academy Of Taekwondo) 10. RE: Pinching (Lasich, Mark D.) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 23:05:48 -0800 From: Joshua Duncan To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] the power of the pinch Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings Mr. Weller and Nigma, Yes I must agree with Mr. Nigma about the pinch technique, lol. My family and I used that "technique" many times on each other while fooling around or dealing out little revenges on one another before I realized the effectiveness it has in combative situations. We would sport nice briuses for a couple weeks afterward, and you always know when someone got hit by this nasty little trick by the squealing scream that followed. What can I say we are a loving bunch. As for self defense I demonstrated it to students while in what we called the "schoolboy headlock", where someone has you bent over and has their arm wrapped around your neck attempting to beat you in the face with the other arm. Way back when, my first instructor used to teach a certain combination for that situation, a little on the brutal side. With more and more younger students training I didn't think it was as appropriate on the schoolyard so started teaching them a just as effective combination that included the pinch to the inside of the thigh....."No Mr. Principle, I didn't break his nose with this kick or that punch, I just pinched them", lol. A fellow Dan who came up the ranks with me came back to our do jang after having moved to the east coast for some time, and was a bit dissapointed to hear that I changed an old favorite technique. He is a bigger guy, many years of training, marine, not turned off by a "little" contact (giving or recieving). Boy, I must say it was amusing to hear the yelp he gave out and how quickly he went to hoping off. Again, with just a little pinch. I would bet my bottom dollar that a good grip and pinch would get just about anyone to let go of you. I am sure that it may not be thought of as a "manly" technique, but hey, niether is jumping around squealing like a little girl, lol. Humbly, Joshua Duncan --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 09:40:17 -0500 (EST) From: "A. Boyd" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Happy Halloween Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Happy Hallowe'en everybody! ===== Anthony Boyd: Swordsman and English Teacher www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Morgan James To: 'Dojang Digest' Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 09:16:42 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Pinching Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In CDT, we utilize "horsebites" which is similar, I guess you could say, to pinching. Horsebiting utilizes the entire hand, not just a couple of fingers for which pinching usually consists of. Steve Kincaid wrote: When the night was over, Mike had an incredible bruise and I had validated an old lesson: everything doesn't work on everybody....... That's right! Everything does NOT work on everybody. Some people have "dead zones" throughout their body. This means that a particular insertion point may not be as effective on the second guy like it does on the first. People with dead zones are usually oversensitive in another part of their body to make up for the dead zone. If Steve's friend was not affected with his pinching on the inner thigh, then I would bet that there is another area close to the inner thigh that that his friend is REALLY sensitive and would work much better. The trick is that when you discover a dead zone you must work quickly to adjust your technique to find that oversensitive area. If a dead zone is encountered, forget about it quickly and move on. You are not going to "wake up" a dead zone by continuously attacking it. James Morgan GTKDA http://www.gtkda.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 09:40:42 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Pinching...whatever. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm sure we can all come up with anecdotes of how we made Billy Joe Bob let go of a headlock one night in class by goosing him in the ribs, or sticking a saliva soaked finger in his ear. The two biggest factors missing in these types of anecdotes are energy and intent. By energy, I mean do we regularly have someone grab our heads with the same type of brutal suddenness and strength as can be expected in a true altercation? I've seen people grabbed around the noggin in street fights, and the type of jerking and twisting you see conjures visions of a lion bringing down an antelope by the neck. Add to this the fact that a person will not be putting you in a headlock so that they can grab the chance to ask the crowd if they want to see the Death Valley Driver, or the Manhattan Suplex. They are either going to be pounding your melon with their free hand, or actively trying to throw you to the ground. Nobody's going to try and stand there and squeeze your head open. So, if you think pinching someone on the inside of their thigh is going to bring you some relief in the midst of that maelstrom...dream on. I doubt you get much of a chance to pinch them, much less rely on it's effectiveness. Heck, if a pinch to the thigh will make Bluto stop hurting me, just imagine what a punch to the jewels would do. Would that, like...ummmm...make him faint or something? Yeah, whatever. Then of course we have intent. I loved the story about the guy who wouldn't let go of the headlock because he was just "stubborn". I think that's a good illustration of how these types of things will fail in even a "friendly" environment just because of competitiveness and the willingness to endure a little pain. Been there, done that (on both ends). Now add to this the fact that he/she is pissed off, drunk, high, and possessed with the single-minded purpose of inflicting pain on your precious little body. You think pinching them on the thigh is going to make them let go of your head so they can yell "Ouch" and rub their leg...keep watching that kung-fu theater. Talk to your local LEO's about the times they've had to use 5 or 6 officers to restrain the drunk who's been repeatedly pepper-sprayed. Ask them about the time they had to pull apart a husband and wife because he hit her in the head with a 9-iron because she stabbed him in the stomach with a kitchen knife because he closed her head in the car door, ad infinitum. Tell them about the inside thigh pinch, and watch them giggle. Now, if you want to add biting, pinching, scratching, wet willies, and chocolate fingers to your self-defense repertoire...please feel free. But when people start saying, "pinch them here, and watch the mightiest crumble to their knees", well I just can't let that go. There are plenty of proven realistic ways to escape these common types of holds that are based on leverage and anatomy. Of course, the price to learn them is a sweat soaked gi, and the willingness to get on the mat with someone that knows what they're doing. I bet some of our Hapkido folks on the list know what I'm talking about. Personally, I love the headlock escape curriculum as taught by the Gracie family for two main reasons. First, you can practice that stuff at almost full speed and power without hurting yourself or your partner. At the end of the day, you've got techniques you can trust because they've been "fire tested" to at least some realistic level. Second, there are a lot of LEO's that swear by that stuff, and have actually used it to get a crack addict off of them. Now, if there are any LEO's out there who have effectively used the inside thigh pinch along with a phoenix eye strike to liver point 13...please stand up and be counted. Understand one thing, I don't mean to offend. But if you're really interested in learning how to defend yourself, then your toolbox had better go a lot deeper than techniques that rely on high levels of pain induced by the grabbing, twisting, and pinching of flesh. Adrenaline has a kooky way of messing up the best of plans. Craig "Hopelessly Grounded in Reality" Stovall --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 08:59:57 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Women's Self Defense Class Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ron, I always try to have one or more of my female students along, even if not black belt. May not be possible for every class, but at least at the point where I introduce groundwork. Seeing someone else who has obviously worked with me and knows the material already seems to help the new students. Another thing I try to do with all my female students very early on, especially before any close contact self defense work, is explain to them the concept of personal space. I have found that a lot of women seem to better handle contact within their personal space if they understand that the emotions they have are a natural self defense mechanism geared at inducing flight from uncomfortable situations, and they need to overcome or control them where their personal space is violated in serious self defense situations in order to be able to effectively defend themselves where flight is not immediately possible. All the feedback I have had after presenting this, has been very positive after we get into body contact situations. I always begin with grabbing wrist and arms, and work into the groundwork over several classes. (One of the reasons I don't do self defense seminars with techniques) I think all of Denise Lee's advice is very good. The other thing I try to do is have students bring a male partner to work with in self defense classes at least some of the time. Of course everyone can't, but it may help some to have someone they trust. But be careful here, because females have a great capacity for empathy, and tend to avoid causing pain to anyone, especially when they have a relationship with them. Begin with woman being attacker when you have to demonstrate techniques, and choose someone that seems more comfortable with the idea. I have also found that the attitudes of different classes can vary greatly. In general teens seem to have less well defined ideas of personal space, which I guess should be expected, and in general women seem to have more trouble setting it aside as age increases. But this is in general, and individuals can vary widely. Danny Dunn <<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:11:53 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] One Punch, One Kill....Kiaaaaiiiiii Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I guess this is my week to pick on Jye, <<>> Riiiiigghhhht. And Okinawan farmers ran around defending themselves against roving samurai with nothing but wheat threshers, and mill handles. I suppose we also believe that palm heeling someone under their nose will break off the "nose bone" and drive it into the brain? How about the one where the original martial arts masters started out with a white belt, and ended up with a black belt after years of grime, sweat, and dirt? Look, most karate systems are post-1900. Show me one historical incident in the Twentieth Century where an Asian army ran around fighting in bamboo armor, and then show me where the karate army showed up to punch holes in their chests. Karate is not a battlefield art, and was never intended to be. It was not even an empty-hand adjunct to the weapons based fighting systems of Japan, China, Korea, etc. ("Oops, I dropped my sword...gotta use my reverse punch"). It, like Judo, TKD, HKD, TSD, etc. are civilian arts, and they came along WAY after Asia's feudal period where the sword and the halberd were the weapons of choice, and gunpowder had yet to make it's impact on warfare. This idea of "karate punches were designed to smash through wooden armor" owes a lot of it's origin to the folk tales surrounding Okinawan martial history, and the supposed necessity for farmers to devise systems to defend their little unarmed selves against the evil, killing, marauding, serial raping, and heavily supplied Japanese samurai. I know I don't buy it, and it's never withstood academic scrutiny. People are pretty doggone resourceful. I don't care to what lengths you go in order to take away their weapons. Even fools and children are going to come up with something more than a highly callused fist if they are faced with the need to break through a bamboo chest plate (as if that ever happened). Did the Japanese go around and impound all stones that weighed more than two-pounds? Do you catch my drift? --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:19:25 -0600 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Dave Weller Subject: [The_Dojang] Pain Tolerance Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Mr Kincaid wrote: >From: "Steve Kincade" > >One night I was teaching this technique to my students as a sure-fire >release technique and I invited a friend of mine from Louisiana to be my >dummy. He is at least six inches taller than me, and outweighs me by maybe >sixty pounds. He locked me (painfully) and I proceeded to grab and pinch >the inside of his inner thigh, just like I had been taught. > >The one thing I didn't count on, however, was his stubbornness. I pinched, >then grabbed a handful of his inner thigh, twisted with all my might, and >finally had to tap out instead of using another technique, since I had >exhausted myself trying to make that one work. > >When the night was over, Mike had an incredible bruise and I had validated >an old lesson: everything doesn't work on everybody. (Except maybe for >chokes and bullets.) It's amazing what we can put up with if the stakes are >high enough, and the only thing we had at stake then were our egos. > >Steve Kincade Reminds me of a student in our school who would only smile when we applied wrist locks on him. I mean we would put enough torque in it that he should be on the floor, but it had no effect on him. Apparently he was double jointed or something in his wrists and you could crank them WAY beyond the typical comfort zone with no pain... But however, he easily succumbed to other joint locks.... A good reason, as someone else mentioned in a recent post, to not think "one blow" (or lock in this case) will ALWAYS stop your opponent. Ya better have another card up your sleeve if the first one plays poorly. -- dave weller student wtf tkd "Practice a thousand hours and you learn self discipline. Practice ten thousand hours and you learn about yourself." Myamoto Musashi --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Eric Walker" To: Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:32:33 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Pinches Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I wonder if someone would care to discuss the body mechanics of what is happening here? I had it explained as an exploitation of a different type of nerve impulse. An exploitation of a fast nerve impulse. That it is not the pain per say, and yes I've practiced it and had it done on me it does hurt, but the shock or suprise feeling you produce when you pinch the skin in these places (inner thigh, underarm , etc.) that causes the attacker to let go. I couldn't help but let go the very first time it was done to me. Of course I know now how it's going to feel, so I'm not suprised any more. I still hurts though.... Eric Walker --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 12:13:49 -0500 To: The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Westport Academy Of Taekwondo Subject: [The_Dojang] Business Plan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I was wondering if any of the school owners on this list have put together a business plan for their school? If anyone has a business plan that they have done and they don't mind sharing it I would love to see it. Your help will be greatly appreciated Please either email me the plan at bbtkd@yahoo.com or fax to 702-447-9639. Thank you once again. Yours in Taekwondo Bill Bill Bleakley Westport Academy Of Taekwondo 275-50 Post Road East Playhouse Square Westport, CT 06880 Tel # (203) 341-0311 Fax # (203) 834-0300 Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/bbtkd --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Lasich, Mark D." To: "Dojang (E-mail)" Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 12:10:57 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Pinching Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net As far as pinching "under the arm" - remember the Ulnar Nerve is at the base of the tricep, just up from the elbow. Pinch A LITTLE bit of skin, and twist! It DOES work (well, on me at least)! In the spirit, Mark --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest