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List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Pinching for Self Defense (Laurie S.) 2. Re: Pinching (txskater@attbi.com) 3. Lori's fear of freezing up (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 4. Pinching (Steve Kincade) 5. Re: Re: Pinching for Self Defense (Ray Terry) 6. Re: Women's Self Defense Class (Jye nigma) 7. Re: RE: Pinching (Jye nigma) 8. Re: One Punch, One Kill....Kiaaaaiiiiii (Jye nigma) 9. Re: One Punch, One Kill....Kiaaaaiiiiii (Ray Terry) 10. Re: RE: Pinching (Ray Terry) 11. RE: Re: Pinching for Self Defense (Jye nigma) 12. A question on Kiap (TeachingInChina@aol.com) 13. Pinching (Steve Swinford) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Laurie S." To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 12:35:46 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Pinching for Self Defense Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Michael wrote: <<<< I am sure that the pinch hurts, and that a person in the dojo will let go. However if you get an attacker who is pumped up and has some bad intentions, then I think it is a different ball game. For a release from a headlock, by a person who is aiming to inflict damage, then there are lots of other techniques I would much rather use. For the same headlock from a rowdy friend, go the pinch!>>>>> Michael, the night my instructor tried the pinch on us, was the first time he did. He just told us to grab him without telling us what he was going to do. The 250 pound guy went first. I didn't think it was for real either when he did it (I was a "know it all" green belt in TSD at the time and I wanted to see for myself), so he used me as a "dummy". Man, did that hurt! I feel that a well placed pinch would work in a real situation. Laurie High Green belt TKD (5th gup TSD) _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp --__--__-- Message: 2 From: txskater@attbi.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 17:52:01 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Pinching Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I never use pinching in class, but at home with my fiancee, we definitely lay into each otehr with moves that are designed to have no MA value, but will get you out of most situations in a heartbeat. We also do not do takedowns in class, but very effectively show that a good old axe kick to the back of the head/neck will accomplish the very same thing. Walt Chung DO Kwan TKD --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 11:57:25 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Lori's fear of freezing up Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Lori, What you are talking about is a big problem in a lot of martial arts schools and why martial arts schools get a bad rap in some circles when talking about self defense. You didn't say what your skill level is, and that can be a factor. However I have seen black belts freeze in self defense situations. In fact, it is an overwhelming minority of students which do not freeze the first few times they encounter freestyle self defense. The answer is that training on techniques with a partner atmosphere does not prepare you mentally to handle a self defense situation. I recommned training on a regular basis in scenario type situations simulating real life. This is done at a much higher level of intensity and force than normal partner training, and with the attitude that it is real. The attackers should only be higher ranks able to take care of themselves and with full padding and protection. This is where you don't know what is coming, and if you don't react effectively instantly you are down and helpless. Of course you have to use some control (don't want to break knees and elbows or permanently blind someone), but the level of intensity has to be there to get the adrenalin flowing on both sides. This is the type of training that "stays with you for a few days," but there is no substitute in my opinion. The second factor is learning and practicing setting your boundaries. A lot of people, and particularly women have some problems setting their personal boundaries and in being unpolite (ie making a scene) with those who infringe on your boundaries. The boundary is basically establishing your mental "line in the sand" that if someone crosses you are going to take action. Each person has to look inside themselves and decide what boundary they are comfortable with, and at what point they are willing to take physical action to protect that boundary. You must decide this boundary location and how far you are willing to go physically to protect that boundary ahead of time. It is not something you can decide while dealing with a situation. Once you decide your boundary and what measures you are willing to take to defend those boundaries, the only thing left is parcticing communicating that to a person infringing on that boundary. I recommend making eye contact and saying "BACK OFF" loudly, forcefully and clearly while raising one or both hands palm out in front of you. In fact I have my students practice this in class during self defense training. Danny Dunn <<<<<<<<<< While I wasn't in any danger it did make me realize that if some one was actually trying to attack me I think I'd freeze up. I don't have this problem in class as I know the other people aren't intentionally trying to do me serious harm. I've thankfully lead a very sheltered life and have never been in any kind of dangerous situation so my question is how do you learn to get past that panicked feeling and defend yourself? Lori>>>>>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Steve Kincade" To: Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 12:16:36 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Pinching Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I said: Jye said: Yep, tried that. I have never had problems doing that before, and I've taught it for years. Almost everyone will succumb to the pain. Almost. However, it's not the ONLY technique I teach and practice, because I really believe that everything doesn't work on everybody. Others wrote about how effective the pinch is, but I noticed that all were talking about demonstrations or class environment. It's different when your life depends on it. It's like the story of the rabbit being faster than the fox because the fox is running for his dinner, but the rabbit is running for his life. That's why we train to develop an Indomitable Spirit, which is really our best weapon. By the way....I'm not anti-pinch. I think pinching has it's place. For instance, I would use it with a family member, friend, or student in my school I didn't want to damage. But, if the stakes change, it always helps to have a solid plan "B". It seems like some great Korean philosopher said something about "don't put all your eggs in one basket..." Which brings up a question: Do any of you LEO's out there rely strictly on pain compliance? What percentage of people don't feel your pressure point techniques, even when sober? One of my buddies in Baton Rouge told me about his encounter with a huge crack head. The perp was resisting arrest with a smaller officer, so my buddy ran at him, spinning his PR24, then dropped down and cracked the guy across the shins with it. (Ouch) The guy literally laughed at him! So, he used the PR24 to hook around the guy's neck, grabbed his hair, did a hip throw to put the guy on the ground, and choked him out. (Don't tell anybody, it was a long time ago). Somehow, I don't think a pinch or CDT pressure point would have the same results! Comments? Steve Kincade --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Pinching for Self Defense To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:34:11 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I am sure that the pinch hurts, and that a person in the dojo > will let go. However if you get an attacker who is pumped up and has > some bad intentions, then I think it is a different ball game. For a > release from a headlock, by a person who is aiming to inflict damage, > then there are lots of other techniques I would much rather use. For > the same headlock from a rowdy friend, go the pinch! Plus, we must realize that 10% to 15% of those we try such techniques on will have zero reaction. Zero! The lesson here.?.?. Never rely on one technique to do the job. Plan on doing a series of techniques and hope that one out of 5 or 9 might actually have the desired responses. Short of my 460 Weatherby Magnum, in semi-atuo... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:34:45 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Women's Self Defense Class To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey Ron if your wife studies, you may want to bring her along also to add to the comfort. If she doesn't study, it would be great for her to learn also. Jye __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:33:20 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Pinching To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net That's right james....that's why we practice many different tactics. An armbar is sure to work on someone according to prove methods and anatomy, but what about going against a person who is a master of getting out of an armbar (reversal)? I think Mr. Craig took my comment about pinching to heart. What I was saying is that it doesn't matter how big someone is sometimes the smallest thing can work. Jye __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:48:26 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] One Punch, One Kill....Kiaaaaiiiiii To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well, Criag...lol, 1st and foremost understand that my responses to you are all done with the highest amount of respect. Now....what is that one killer punch for, or does it even exist? In your opinion. Jye __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] One Punch, One Kill....Kiaaaaiiiiii To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:53:56 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > break off the "nose bone" and drive it into the brain? How about the one > where the original martial arts masters started out with a white belt, and > ended up with a black belt after years of grime, sweat, and dirt? My particular favorite. The white belt that got so dirty it turned black... HaHaHaHaHaHa..... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Pinching To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:59:46 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > That's right james....that's why we practice many > different tactics. An armbar is sure to work on > someone according to prove methods and anatomy, but > what about going against a person who is a master of > getting out of an armbar (reversal)? Never mind about that. What about the 125 lbs master trying to get an arm bar on the 375 lbs All-Pro NFL lineman. And the sadest part is that you can't ever run from them as they are faster and quicker than you are, and they can jump higher than you can. One must simply realize that we may all experience a bad day. Just pray that it won't be a REAL bad day... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 14:03:16 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Pinching for Self Defense To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net --- Michael Forman wrote: However if you get an attacker who is > pumped up and has > some bad intentions, then I think it is a different > ball game. For a > release from a headlock, by a person who is aiming > to inflict damage, > then there are lots of other techniques I would much > rather use. That is why we train using different techniques, eventually a technique will be useless against someone..... Funny, I bet Bruce Lee probably had a similar conversation about a 1 inch punch...lol. Jye __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 12 From: TeachingInChina@aol.com Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 17:44:00 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] A question on Kiap Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have a question. How should one go about finding the right yell to release your "ki" "chi". I want it to be my own and not sound like I am copying my masters or Grandmaster. Releasing energy seems to be kind of difficult for me. Thanks Landa 6th gup green belt TKD --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Steve Swinford" To: Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 16:51:51 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Pinching Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am a police officer and have been for 15 years. I agree that pinching is probably not your best option. When you are attacked the attacker has an adrenaline dump just as you do. The pain tolerance goes up and a lot of pain compliance techniques become obsolete. Pepper spray is far worse than a pinch and all the times that I have used it, only once did the bad guy comply. Pepper spray distracts and most of the time causes the bad guy to be temporary blinded, so it does give you an advantage. I am also a Police Defensive Tactics Instructor and I have never been taught or taught anyone to pinch. Most of the time your best option is a stun strike followed a joint lock or takedown. I do believe that a pinch could be effective with school age kids. In bully type situations the adrenaline dump on the part of the attacker is far less and sometimes non existent. Pain tolerance is a lot lower. I would however teach the children other options if that option fails. I have seen people take all kinds of punishment and continue to attack. Most of the time you won't feel the pain until minutes or hours later. When I teach self defense to any one I stress the survivor's attitude. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest