Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 06:54:01 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #517 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. water break (Charles Veuleman) 2. Re: JAMA (Ray Terry) 3. You say horses and I say hoses... (Ray Terry) 4. Re: pinching (Jye nigma) 5. Re: Pinching (Jye nigma) 6. Re: Kincade - press.points/pain compliance (tntcombatives@attbi.com) 7. Re: kihap question (Laurie S.) 8. Pinching (Rudy Timmerman) 9. dojangs (wild horse) 10. Chittim years... (Nathan Miller) 11. Re: Ray The Math Man (Joe Dupaquier) 12. Diary of Park Chung Hee (Ray Terry) 13. Hapkido in the Midwest (Hapkido Hoshinsul Dojang) 14. Reality (Chris LaCava) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 18:44:07 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Veuleman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] water break Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > you guys sure do alot of history reports...I'll be training. I gives something to ponder during our one second water break each hour... Whoops, times over..... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com hahahahahahahahahahaha I really enjoy when the dojang makes me laugh, especially while I am at my internship job, which is really a laugh. P.S. - Ya'll get a water break? :D Charlie Veuleman ===== ------------------------------------- L. Charles Veuleman Natchitoches Karate Institute 204 Rapides Drive Natchitoches, LA 71457 318-356-7727 http://www.bluewavekarate.com ------------------------------------- --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] JAMA To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 18:44:36 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > If you're looking for a good informative magazine try The Journal of > > Asian Martial Arts. It covers a wide variety of MA , interviews from > > some impressive people and is printed quarterly. > > michael whalen KSWnut > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.404 / Virus Database: 228 - Release Date: 10/15/2002 > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.404 / Virus Database: 228 - Release Date: 10/15/2002 > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Folks, please remember to trim (edit) your posts so they don't end up wasting all this extra bandwitdh, esp at the end. Thank. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 18:54:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] You say horses and I say hoses... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Actually we only get an H2O break during the lunar year of the Water Hose... Um... I think that is really supposed to be the year of the Water Horse! Pssst, don't tell them..... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 19:54:03 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] pinching To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net lol...Hey Mac. It is only a simply tactic, but it can be over come by placing the mind elsewhere, once the initial shock is gone. Jye __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 19:55:26 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Pinching To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I had an LEO to tell me he didn't need MAs because > his favorite "stun strike" > was with a big flashlight! Is that what's meant by > "I saw the light?" > I'll tell you what, i don't know why cops even carry batons, because those flashlights are definitely weapons!!! lol Jye __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 6 From: tntcombatives@attbi.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 04:36:08 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Kincade - press.points/pain compliance Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings All, I have always enjoy the LEO students who come to me for training who have trained in the various pressure point / pain comply only courses. When the low force struggle happens, they do ok, with a few TNT refinements of course. The problem is just as many of you have mentioned. Dead zones, PCP freaks, drunks, my feel-no- pain fellow instructors etc., may not feel it, and may not realize that they just twisted their arm backward dislocating it so they can chew on your ear. It gets interesting when the student gives inappropriate response (ie: uses too little force) to the threat. I play the threat during scenario training...if a PP doesnt work, the student must do more or I will pound them (hey, I'm padded up a bit) until they do. That is where the importance of immediate default skills with impact force need to be used...It would be a nice world if I could put a wrist/finger/toe lock on a nut trying to punch my lights out. (see end of post for recent experience with thumb locks). I have not heard of any studies that would be able to provide a sample of % that don't feel PP techniques. I have yet to run into anyone that does not feel pain to some extent...and for those that dont, I carry the Advanced M-26 Taser on duty...50,000 volts of pure happiness. Many agencies have gone away from any type of choke or constriction holds. Used correctly in the proper circumstance, the ol' LAPD caress works wonders...again, proper training needed. If it was so dangerous, it would have been banned long ago in Judo competitions where the players are experts at applying it. Pressure point stuff has its place, but IMHO should not be the only skills to rely on when needed. OK - took a guy to jail last week on a DUII. He refused the breath test and became fairly unhappy when jail deputies were removing him from handcuffs. He began fighting the 3 of them. He managed to break away from the forearm PP, armbar takedown, wrist lock, and trip they tried....and since I was standing there...and the suspect was 'coming right for me', I inwardly smiled and joined the frackas. I tried a head and arm throw (foiled by one of the deputies tugging the other way), flowed to a single arm takedown (stymied by another deputy), I kneed the guy in the stomach, applied a shoulder lock and took the gent down to his chest with minimal impact. I transitioned to a verticle elbow lock, did not get the response I wanted, and flowed to a single thumb lock (thumb bent/me twisting it). It gave me the response I wanted. Mr.Wingnut was secured in the restraint (aka:happy chair) chair with the help of the thumblock...but without the impact use of force, it would have been a much longer round. Ok...enough from me. -- Mark Gajdostik TNT-Police Combatives 503-789-1356 --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Laurie S." To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 00:25:51 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: kihap question Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Landa wrote: <<<>>> Landa, to be honest, I don't kihap. I do in certian situations like to signal to my partner that I'm "ready" as in step sparring, but otherwise, I don't. In breaking, I don't kihap, and I still break. Making a weird noise is not my idea of technique. If you have good technique, accuracy, and power, what's the point? I might get "flamed" for this, but I never found the reason for a kihap. I use ki naturally. I don't yell. I just let it happen. I let it come from my danjun (sp?). I don't have to yell for that. It just kinda happens for me. I use danjun "breathing" as in breathing deep, but I don't yell. When I do kihap, I just say "hey" sharply. LOL. I have the dorkiest kihap LOL. Laurie High green belt TKD (5th gup blue belt TSD) _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 17:55:55 -0500 From: "Rudy Timmerman" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Pinching Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jye writes: > The pinch will make the biggest person crumble. The > skin on the inner thigh is so sensitive the initial > shock of the pain will make the person let go. Hello Jye: If you believe that, I think you might look in to purchasing some prime real estate in the Everglades or perhaps a nice bridge in NY. Like you most likely did, I have also observed some CDT live training demos. I am just a bit more sceptical about the optimistic claims. While I agree that pinching MIGHT help in a self defense situation; IMHO, it is a mistake to totally rely on this (or any) technique. I have observed with amusement when some of my students calmly stood there while another student applied one of these "devastating" pinching techniques. Sure enough, the bruising afterward is massive, but at the time the technique was applied, several of my students would not submit. I have personally dealt with people on drugs who did not even quit after I broke some of their bones. Yet, I rely on doing this over ANY pinching technique, because of the opponent's problems in mobility with a broken leg. At least I was able to get away while they hobbled home. As far as flesh tearing is concerned, it would take much more training of the hands than most martial artists are willing to commit to. In our art, I teach it (at a higher level), but I have yet to see anyone actually follow the suggested hand conditioning that it requires. Self-defense today has taken on a whole new meaning, and martial arts serve only a small portion in preparing you for a worst case scenario. Many martial artists I know could do very well in a "nice" fight on the street, but which martial art technique will save your butt if the beaten thug comes back with a mangnum and does in your entire family because you Pst him off. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "wild horse" To: "dojang digest" Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 11:19:09 -0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] dojangs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Chris, I have exactly the same problem as your girlfriend had but its now too late for me to get the operation done because I'm going to the States for 8 months to work with horses. I think it was Jye that said about the brace; I have one but it only stops my knee giving way, sometimes.... One for those in the Crofton area of Maryland and the Brentwood area of Long Island; any good WTF TKD dojangs around? I would also consider hapkido ones as well because it sounds like a pretty cool art to learn :-) Ok, going now..... Thanks WendyGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 03:08:41 -0800 (PST) From: Nathan Miller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Chittim years... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >From what I can recall of Dr. Jordan's "Big Book of Tae Kwon Do," Master Chittim initially started out doing Judo. He founded (or co-founded, I don't remember) the Texas Judo Black Belt Federation. It wasn't until the Korean War that he became interested in a striking art, and he initially brought Rhee over in 1955. Shortly afterwards, as I believe Charlie already said, he had to return to Korea to fulfill a military obligation, and returned in 1957. If you have a copy of it, most of this is in Corcoran and Farkas's "Traditions, People, History: an Encyclopedia of Martial Arts" - that's at least close to the title. ===== --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Joe Dupaquier" To: , Cc: Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 06:59:59 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Ray The Math Man Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Your right in 48 Rhee would have been pretty young, about 16. That makes me wonder about the 1948 date as well, but I did not pull them out of the air. You won't get much info from Dr Jordan either. He has never been very interested in the historical side and did not ask Master Chittim many questions about our origin. His feelings, as are mine, is you can't develop a killer side kick and good technique with your nose stuck in a book. Regardless of the dates, Chittim is Rhee's first black belt in the States and we are doing what Rhee was teaching when he came to the states. Our fighters are among the best in the world. We have proven that at every open tournament we have attended (and a few closed that we have snuck into). We fight by any rules, any where, any time with the American fighting spirit that Chittim emphasized with the techniques Rhee taught him. with that in mind, I'm going to kick on a heavy bag. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Veuleman" To: ; ; "Joe Dupaquier" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 7:34 PM Subject: Ray The Math Man > > It is my understanding that Chittim returned from Korea a brown belt > > and > > met Trias (1946). Trias offered to train Chittim in his style, > Shurei-Ryu. > > Chittim said no thanks, to long of a commute to Az. Any other ideas ? > > Trias > > said go back to Korea and find the best instructor you can and bring > him > > back. That is how Rhee got to the states in 48. > > Rhee had to live with Chittim for a year. Chittim was legally and > financial > > responsible for him for that year. Rhee later left for Dallas where > he > > trained Allan Steen and then went on to DC. > > Per Jhoon Rhee, he came to the US in 1957. But perhaps that is when > he > moved here for good. > > Yet I believe Rhee is now 70 years old, so in 1948 he would have been > about 14...??? > > Ray Terry > > ---------END SNIP > > That is a good point R.T., again, let me email Joe and see what comes > up. He is much better at this stuff than I am, but remember, he said > he had only met Chittim at his black belt test, so whatever info we > have is handed down from Chittim to Doctor Jordan, the living head of > our system, then to us. > > Also, I think Rhee got sent BACK to Korea to serve some time in the > military, and I have heard Rhee was really young when he came over, but > I have never heard of an age. You got me there man. > > Man, you guys sure do alot of history reports...I'll be training. > > :D > > Charlie Veuleman > > ===== > ------------------------------------- > L. Charles Veuleman > Natchitoches Karate Institute > 204 Rapides Drive > Natchitoches, LA 71457 318-356-7727 > http://www.bluewavekarate.com > ------------------------------------- --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 06:26:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Diary of Park Chung Hee Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Please note the time and place, the lecture will be at 4:00 PM in Luce Hall, Room 203. The Council on East Asian Studies at Yale presents 2002-2003 Korean Studies Lecture Series Carter Eckert Professor of Korean History; Director, Korea Institute Harvard University "The Saing of Modernization: The Personal Diary of Park Chung Hee" Friday, November 15, 2002 4:00 PM Room 203, Henry R. Luce Hall The Korean Studies Lecture Series is generously funded by the Edward J. and Dorothy Clarke Kempf Memorial Fund. For more information, contact the Council on East Asian Studies at (203) 432-3426 or alexander.han@yale.edu Alexander Jonghee Han Administrative Associate, Japan Programs Council on East Asian Studies Luce Hall Room 320 (203) 432-3428 (203) 432-3430 fax --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Hapkido Hoshinsul Dojang" To: Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 09:29:26 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido in the Midwest Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just a reminder - pre-registration for the Fort Wayne Indiana Hapkido Seminar with Master West ends in a few days. Registration forms and information can be found at http://www.awnewhapkido.com/Seminar/J_R_West_Seminar.htm. If you have any questions, just let me know. Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Chris LaCava" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 09:49:50 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Reality Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Craig S: Good point, but I believe that we must use the "right tool for the right job." So it has to be "in" the toolbox in order to use it. I think it may be foolish to ignore it altogether. There are techniques that have many applications, but non of us can rely on a signle technique for every situation. Take care. Chris "from CT" LaCava's Martial Arts Westport, CT. http://lmaa.bravepages.com Online Store- http://www.cafepress.com/hapkidogear _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest