Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 17:10:02 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #520 - 18 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Question about hapkido (Ray Terry) 2. Everybody's Calm on My End (Stovall, Craig) 3. Best Ninja site (Ray Terry) 4. Re: one punch kill (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 5. Killer Kung-Fu Kiyaps (Stovall, Craig) 6. Re: self defe (Beungood@aol.com) 7. Pain, locks, and smiley faces (Dave Weller) 8. executive programs (Brian Beach) 9. First king of Shilla (Ray Terry) 10. Craig Views (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 11. Samseong myth (Ray Terry) 12. RE: 11-13 Year Olds at the 2003 US Open (fwd) (Wallace, John) 13. RE: Killer Kung-Fu Kiyaps (Wallace, John) 14. 2002 Can-Am Tournament (Dewitt, Garrett) 15. RE: Tink (TINK) 16. Ninjutsu,, Hapkido throws (michael tomlinson) 17. Re: Question about hapkido (Jye nigma) 18. Re: Ninjutsu,, Hapkido throws (Jye nigma) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Question about hapkido To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:11:42 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I was wondering if hapkido has any throws that are > designed to cripple or kill an opponent like the ones > found in ninjutsu. There are many techniques in Hapkido that crimple or kill. Not sure exactly how many of them would actually be classified as throws, tho... Some are breaks, strikes to specific areas, etc. As Gm Ji terms them, "mean techniques". Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 14:22:04 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Everybody's Calm on My End Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> I'm breathless with anticipation. j/k Craig "I can't wait to see what the ninjas have to say" Stovall --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:45:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Best Ninja site Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://www.ninjaburger.com Accept nothing but the original Ninja Burger... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 15:53:08 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: one punch kill Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "Is a one punch kill possible?...YES!!!...ask any medical professional or better yet...just stand before some of the adept martial artists and find out...make sure your insurance is paid up..." i have to agree with master farrell on this one. i know a martial artist who loves to help people stop smoking...people he knows...by punching them straight in the chest everytime he catches them with a cigarette. on one instance, one of the folks he "helped" reacted to the punch by going into cardiac arrest. fortunately, he received quick medical attention and recovered from the incident... ...and he has never smoked again. take care, melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy http://www.cjmaa.com Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply http://www.cjmas.com Toll Free: 1-877-847-4072 Proud Sponsor of the 2003 Annual Show Me State Open Martial Arts Tournament --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 14:54:39 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Killer Kung-Fu Kiyaps Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Ummmmmmm...OK, I'll bite. Please elaborate. Where did you learn this? Who taught it to you? How is it done? What are the exact anatomical mechanics that are involved in bringing about the person's death? What physical systems are affected? The neurological, cardiovascular, circulatory, muscular, skeletal, or digestive? All of the above? Is this one of those deals that affects the person's "ki"? My wife says that I'm a know-it-all, but I must confess that this has somehow eluded my attention. Any objective and verifiable information would be appreciated. Craig "Waiting to inhale" Stovall --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:06:05 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: self defe Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 10/31/02 1:21:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > or maybe these were gay marines...don't > know, don't care). Hey ! There's no such thing! Thier only in the NAvy! --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 15:38:57 -0600 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Dave Weller Subject: [The_Dojang] Pain, locks, and smiley faces Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Jeff Wrote: > >From: FirstPe315@aol.com >Subject: [The_Dojang] Pain Tolerance / Locks Not Working?? > >> Apparently he was double jointed or something in his wrists and you could crank them WAY beyond the typical comfort zone with no pain... But however, he easily succumbed to other >> joint locks.... > >This happens quite a bit in Aikido, Jiu-jutsu and Hapkido schools. But you must remember, although they are locks, locks are really breaks. Anybody standing their smiling while you apply a joint lock past the distance the joint should bend is not truly understanding that they just lost that limb should the technique be applied to their logical conclusion. > >This happens a lot with beginners and I make it a point to spoil that notion of "pain tolerance" when it comes to locks right away. For many, it's an ego thing and it's best to explain to them straight away that believing there can be "pain tolerance" with locks shows their lack of knowledge of what their actually doing. > >Jeff I didn't make myself clear. Your point is well taken. This person knew good and well that carried to it conclusion the lock he was in would have destroyed the joint. We were learning the technique, as most probably do, for compliance without joint destruction. And when I said he was smiling I only used that statement to make a point(obviously the WRONG point now that you point it out), I actually do not recall his expression other that the fact that he was not grimacing like I KNOW I did when the same technique was applied to my wrist. Anyway, his flexible wrists were a good learning experience for us all, and our Master often used him as an example of how a technique might NOT work, even if applied correctly. Thanks for the input, -- dave weller student wtf tkd "Practice a thousand hours and you learn self discipline. Practice ten thousand hours and you learn about yourself." Myamoto Musashi --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:46:03 -0500 From: Brian Beach To: Subject: [The_Dojang] executive programs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks for everyone's comments. Consideration is taken for everyone's ability and everyone is brought along at their own pace. There are people that I know will never do a jumping split kick and that's ok (mine is not that pretty). I worked with a group at an off site class that is made up of all 45-50+ aged students and all took falls, kicked to the best of their ability and worked very hard, I was impressed. There is a small group at the dojang that has asked to be separated from the group and start this new program. One went as far to print up a flyer to promote the "new class". I was wondering if catering to this group is worth the effort. They want a technique class, I guess the best way to describe it is a lecture class with techniques being done until near fall. They seem not to want to roll out or even do sit down falls. I don't see how you can actually develop effective technique this way. I am just a fledgling instructor. Thanks again for all the input, Brian --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 14:08:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] First king of Shilla Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Pak Hyeokkeose by Charles La Shure First king of Shilla. The area where Shilla was later to emerge was first called Ch'inhan, and it was occupied by six towns (most probably city-states). According to the mythology, the leaders of the towns gathered together and decided that they needed a king to rule over them, primarily because there was no fixed rule or law and thus the people acted without virtue. They ascended to a high place and to the south they saw something like lightning flash from heaven. Then they saw a great white horse bowing down to the ground. When they neared the place they saw that the horse was bowing to a shining egg that lay on the ground. When the horse saw the men approaching, it whinnied loudly and flew up to heaven. When the egg was opened, a shining boy emerged. All the birds and animals danced for joy, the heavens shook, and the sun and moon grew brighter. Because he was born from an egg, he was given the surname Pak ("gourd" in Korean). The boy was taken to a temple in the south where he was raised. When he reached the age of thirteen, he married Alyeong and became king of the land. He ruled for 61 years and then ascended to heaven. Pak Hyeokkeose was most probably an early chieftain who succeeded in uniting the six main city-states of the area into one nation which was at first called Kyerim but later became Shilla. --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:08:10 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Craig Views Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Craig, Quite a bit I'd say. Excellent post Craig. By the way, you can wash that belt!! But it makes it whiter. Danny Dunn <<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 14:11:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Samseong myth Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Samseong myth by Charles La Shure This myth tells of the first settlement on Cheju Island, located off the southern coast of the Korean Peninsula. In the beginning, before any people roamed the land, three demi-gods (Yangeulla, Koeulla, Pueulla) emerged from the ground. They wandered through the land and hunted, making clothes from the skins and subsisting on the meat. One day they discovered a large wooden chest on the eastern shore of the island. They opened up the chest and a messenger wearing a purple robe and red belt emerged. Also in the chest was a stone box, and inside were three girls wearing blue clothing, a calf, a colt, and the five grains (barley, rice, soybean, foxtail millet, and millet; in Korean folk literature these five grains represent all of agriculture). The messenger announced that they had been sent from Byeongnang (some sources indicate that the messenger and girls came from Japan, which makes geographical sense). The king of that land had sent the girls to be the brides of the three demi-gods. After delivering his message, the messenger returned to his land on a cloud. The three demi-gods each married and went their separate ways, founding each their own village. --- Now time to go and make Joe happy by kicking the heavy bag 1000 times, just for my back kick... --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Wallace, John" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] 11-13 Year Olds at the 2003 US Open (fwd) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 14:20:33 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net What is an ULTRA division - unlimited weight class? Professional competitors? -----Original Message----- From: Ray Terry [mailto:rterry@idiom.com] Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 12:14 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net; policedo@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] 11-13 Year Olds at the 2003 US Open (fwd) The 2003 US Open Taekwondo Championship will once again include 11-13 year old competitors. Originally, this age group was not going to be included for 2003 to make room for adding the Ultra Division to the US Open. That decision was made because of space constraints at the venue that would not allow for additional rings to be added, and in the interest of adding one of the fastest growing groups of competitors to our elite competition- the ULTRA competitors. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.404 / Virus Database: 228 - Release Date: 10/15/2002 --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Wallace, John" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Killer Kung-Fu Kiyaps Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 14:27:28 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr Stovall: The technique is really quite simple. As you circle your opponent, deftly apply saline paste to the upper left chest, the area below the left nipple, and under the right arm. Form a phoenix eye with your fist, and place an electrode in the cup formed by your fingers. Using a firm tapping motion, apply the electrodes and activate your portable heart monitor. Watch for the depolarization of the heart, then leap in and thump the opponent squarely on the chest. If you've timed it right, they'll go into ventricular fibrillation (which with your monitor you should be able to confirm) and drop dead. ;) -John W. I Dan, TKD Fremont, CA -----Original Message----- From: Stovall, Craig [mailto:CStovall@nucorar.com] Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 12:55 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Killer Kung-Fu Kiyaps <<>> Ummmmmmm...OK, I'll bite. Please elaborate. Where did you learn this? Who taught it to you? How is it done? What are the exact anatomical mechanics that are involved in bringing about the person's death? What physical systems are affected? The neurological, cardiovascular, circulatory, muscular, skeletal, or digestive? All of the above? Is this one of those deals that affects the person's "ki"? My wife says that I'm a know-it-all, but I must confess that this has somehow eluded my attention. Any objective and verifiable information would be appreciated. Craig "Waiting to inhale" Stovall _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.404 / Virus Database: 228 - Release Date: 10/15/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.404 / Virus Database: 228 - Release Date: 10/15/2002 --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Dewitt, Garrett" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 14:53:18 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] 2002 Can-Am Tournament Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I would like to thank all of Grandmaster Timmerman's students for the courteous assistance which they all demonstrated and I would also personally like to thank Master Keatley and Grandmaster Humesky. In regards to Master Keatley's comments, "not having enough time to assist with everyone due to tournament tasks." Master Keatley demonstrated and displayed an extremely courteous and professional mannerism and agenda which is rarely seen throughout the tournaments I attend in the upper midwest. I was fortunate enought to have a few of my students travel to attend this tournament. The personal time given (from Master Keatley, Mrs. Rhonda Bourdage and Grandmaster Humesky) to those students and the professionalism displayed at this tournament has given my students an extremely insightful view of the real thing. I know for me personally and the students I have at our DoJang here in Minnesota we continue to be blessed with the continual caring demonstrated by Grandmaster Timmerman's NKMAA organzation. It was a trip well worth taking. Thank You. Master Garrett DeWitt www.btkd.net --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 18:48:59 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "TINK" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Tink Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This is NOT the forum to get into arguments... if you wish to discuss this... you have my email addresses...I will be more than happy to discuss this with you intelligently... and just to let you know... I am a Navy Reservist of 11 years, My brothers fought in Viet Nam, my Father in WWII...I know many of the Special Forces Personnel as well as veterans from WWII, Korea, Viet Nam, Desert Storm and present day... I also know their training... I have the greatest respect for all military members... So if you wish to continue this...lets take it off line...Not here! Sorry Terry [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif] [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif] --__--__-- Message: 16 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 23:59:03 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Ninjutsu,, Hapkido throws Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have studied both martial arts and I have to say that when it comes to disabling or "crippling" throws their is NO comparison, Hapkido throws win this hands down, there are many many more techniques in Hapkido for this than in Ninjutsu... Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free!  Try MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp --__--__-- Message: 17 Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:54:13 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Question about hapkido To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Ray. I was told by many ninjutsu practitioners that the founder of Aikido studied and was possibly a master of ninjutsu. Is he where hapkido came from? I heard the story of the Korean boy who was adopted by the japanese family of a aikido master who inherited the family art....I'm sure I messed it all up. But anyhow, ninjutsu has certain types of throws that are designed to cripple or kill a person on the receiving end...lol For instance, a certain throw would cause the person to fall on their neck snapping their neck. Anything at all like this in hapkido? Jye __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 18 Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 17:01:07 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Ninjutsu,, Hapkido throws To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Really, wow that is shocking. What system of ninjutsu have you or do you study? Jye when it comes to > disabling or "crippling" throws their is NO > comparison, Hapkido throws win > this hands down, there are many many more techniques > in Hapkido for this > than in Ninjutsu... __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest