Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 10:24:02 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #521 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Question about hapkido (Ray Terry) 2. Cheju Island founding myth (Andrew Pratt) 3. Traditional Korean Archery (Ray Terry) 4. Question about hapkido (Randall Sexton) 5. Choreographed Demo Ideas? (Lasich, Mark D.) 6. One Punch Kill (Cliff.Vaught@pmusa.com) 7. Korean Folk Arts Festival For Foreigners (Ray Terry) 8. near accord on reunion site for divided families (Ray Terry) 9. RE: Crippling Throws (Stovall, Craig) 10. Re: Choreographed Demo Ideas? (Jye nigma) 11. Ninjutsu (was: Question about hapkido) (Wallace, John) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Question about hapkido To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 17:19:14 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Hi Ray. I was told by many ninjutsu practitioners that > the founder of Aikido studied and was possibly a > master of ninjutsu. Is he where hapkido came from? I > heard the story of the Korean boy who was adopted by > the japanese family of a aikido master who inherited > the family art....I'm sure I messed it all up. I think you are confusing several stories. In short, Aikido and Hapkido seem to decend from Takeda Sensei's Daitoryu Aiki-Jujutsu. The stories about a young adopted Korean boy are impossible to prove and most likely never occurred. Takeda Sensei's records are well documented and one of you Ninja-dudes Grandmasters may have used his stealth to view training from afar.... :) > But anyhow, ninjutsu has certain types of throws that > are designed to cripple or kill a person on the > receiving end...lol For instance, a certain throw > would cause the person to fall on their neck snapping > their neck. Anything at all like this in hapkido? Certainly. Also very similar things in America's Catch Wrestling. After all there are only so many way to twist a wrist and execute a throw or a takedown. One diff are the pj-s that some like to wear while training... :) Whoops, time to go do laundry. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Andrew Pratt" To: "dojang" Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:05:27 +0900 Subject: [The_Dojang] Cheju Island founding myth Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, You posted a translation and interpretation by Charles La Shure of some of Korea's founding myths > This myth tells of the first settlement on Cheju Island, located off the southern coast of the Korean Peninsula. In the beginning, before any people roamed the land, three demi-gods (Yangeulla, Koeulla, Pueulla) emerged from the ground. They wandered through the land and hunted, < I just want to point out that this myth is true! I have been to Cheju Island and seen the hole (a volcanic flue) where the demi-gods emerged into our world (though the demi gods weren't at home the day I visited). Incidentally, for those who are interested, these myths are recorded in the Samguk Yusa. This is one of the oldest remaining Korean books (though the oldest remaining copies date from the Choson period). The book was compiled in the early part of the Koryo period by a Buddhist monk called Ilhyon. It is thought that he obtained many of the stories from existing texts (which have since been lost). It has been argued that he had an agenda which was to counter the claims of legitimacy of the Koryo kingdom. The Koryo kingdom had just compiled a history of the Korean peninsula (called the Samguk Sagi) which claimed that the Koryo kings derived their authority from the preceding Shilla kingdom that had come to dominate the peninsula. Ilhyon, it is argued, wanted to show that there had been several origins of the Korean people and that there was no single source of authority. Andrew --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 18:43:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Traditional Korean Archery Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just rewatched an old Turtle press video on Kuk Kung, Traditional Korean Archery. Interesting in how rank is attained in this art. Any practitioners present in the_dojang? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Randall Sexton" To: Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 00:01:27 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Question about hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >>>I was wondering if hapkido has any throws that are designed to cripple or kill an opponent like the ones found in ninjutsu. Jye>>> You mean all the ones where you drop people on their heads, however in practice you let them down safely so that you have someone to train with? Randall Sexton www.laughinghara.com "When you get there, there isn't any there there." Gertrude Stein --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Lasich, Mark D." To: "Dojang (E-mail)" Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 07:46:35 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Choreographed Demo Ideas? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net For two years now I have been wanting to create a choreographed demo to the NSync Song Bye Bye Bye. While I have a lot of ideas already, I thought I would get some input from the list on ideas on how to go about the process. I do NOT want to do a known Hyung to this song, I want to create a completely new expression for a demonstration. With a background in TSD and TKD, I am going to blend aspects from both, including some favorite moves from Chil-Sung Ee-Ro! While any suggestions on particular techniques are appreciated, what I am really looking for are additional ideas on how to go about "mapping" a song, putting it to an I-Pattern, etc...... Thank you very much. In the spirit, Mark --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Cliff.Vaught@pmusa.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 08:04:57 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] One Punch Kill Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I find this discussion topic of absolutely no value to a true martial artist. Is that what we're studying the arts for? It's like going to a foreign land and the words you want to learn first as a teenager are the cuss words. "Is there a way I can kill a guy with one punch?" That dude that put a guy in cardiac arrest by punching him is LUCKY he didn't have his butt sued. Outaged in Richmond, Cliff --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 07:36:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean Folk Arts Festival For Foreigners Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The 35th Annual Korean Folk Arts Festival For Foreigners 2002.11.01 The Korea Herald and the Naeway Economic Daily are co-hosting the 35th Korean Folk Arts Festival for Foreigners along with KBS. The Ministry of Culture and Tourism is sponsoring the event. The contest has been a tradition in Korea for 30 years and offers foreigners a chance to show off their talents in Korean performing arts. Each foreign participant has the unique opportunity to build goodwill between his or her home country and Korea. The final contest will be broadcast on TV by KBS during the new year holiday. Each participant who makes the finals will have the chance to perform to a large national audience. Please contact us for more information. We look forward to hearing from you. Application form 1. Date / Place 1) Preliminary contest : - Date : Nov. 30 (Sat.) 10 a.m. 2002 - Place : Children Choir's room located at the new KBS building in Yoido 2) Final contest : - Date : Dec. 14(Sat.) 10 a.m. 2002 - Place : TV- STUDIO, KBS annex 2. Eligibility Any foreigner who resides in Korea (including soldiers but excluding the first prize-winners of the past contests within 3 years) 3. Divisions Korean traditional music, instrumental music, folk dance, vocal solo called 'Chang' Modern vocal music: solo, duet, trios, quartet * Only songs written and composed by Koreans are available 4. Application form download Deadline for application: Nov. 26(Tue.) Where to send applications: Planning and management Dept., The Korea Herald/Naeway Economic Daily 1-12, 3-ga, hoehyeon-dong, Jung-gu, Seoul 100-771 5. Documents required: application, two photos (passport-size) - Most outstanding award - First place award - Encouragement award - Popularity award * Each winner will receive a citation, a trophy and a supplementary prize 7. Inquiries Planning and management Dept., The Korea Herald / Naeway Economic Daily Tel) 02-727-0462~6 Fax) 02-727-0679 E-mail) jean@koreaherald.co.kr Organizer : The Korea Herald / Naeway Economic Daily, KBS Sponsor : Ministry of Culture and Tourism --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 07:39:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] near accord on reunion site for divided families Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net South, North Korea near accord on reunion site for divided families 2002.11.02 MT. GEUMGANG - South and North Korea were close to an agreement yesterday to start building a permanent rendezvous point for families separated by the 1950-53 Korean War within this year, Seoul officials said. The officials said the two sides also discussed the South's proposal to arrange another round of reunions for divided families on Dec. 3-8. During the first full-dressed session and informal contacts on the second day of three-day talks at this North Korean mountain resort, South and North Korean Red Cross officials discussed measures to hold reunions of separated families on a regular basis. In the afternoon, the delegates inspected Jopo village, nestled at the foot of Mt. Geumgang, following up the North's proposal of it as a site for the reunion post. Residents in the area have been withdrawing to clear the way for construction of the facility. "North Korean officials said the reunion station should accommodate as many as 1,000 family members while agreeing on its early construction," a South Korean delegate said. He said the South's chief negotiator Lee Byung-woong, special aid to the president of the Korean National Red Cross (KNRC), suggested that the two Koreas organize a seven-member committee to monitor the organization of the permanent meeting place. "Lee also called on the North to cooperate in allowing divided families to confirm the whereabouts of their long-lost kin and exchange letters," the official said Ri Kum-chol, a central committee member of the North Korean Red Cross, leads a three-member delegation to the talks, which includes officials from construction fields. If the two sides agree on a new round of family reunions early next month, South Korean family members are expected to use cross-border roads along the eastern coast. Seoul and Pyongyang promised to complete the construction of the temporary roads along the eastern coast this month, which can be used for South Korean visitors headed for the scenic North Korean mountain, during economic talks in Seoul in August. The working-level meeting hit a snag, however, when North Korea refused to tackle the thorny issue of South Korean abductees kidnapped by the North after the end of the Korean War. The abduction issue has been echoed by the abductees' families since North Korean leader Kim Jong-il apologized for kidnapping Japanese citizens in the 1970s and 1980s during his summit with Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi in Pyongyang in September. According to the Unification Ministry, 481 of 19,409 prisoners of war (POW) are believed to be alive in North Korea. Of these, 486 South Koreans had been taken to the North against their will since the end of the Korean War. Pyongyang agreed to locate South Korean POWs during the last Red Cross talks but has been recalcitrant in addressing the post-war kidnappings. The South and North Korean negotiators will issue a joint statement today before the Seoul contingent returns home aboard a cruise ship from Jangjeon Port in the North to the South Korean port of Sokcho. By Joint Press Corps and Herald reporter Seo Hyun-jin --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 09:41:31 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Crippling Throws Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Well, it's not really the throw but rather the intent, yes? As was pointed out to me many years ago, you could take any of the "sportsmanlike" throws of Judo and turn them into "deadly" techniques. After all, if you are physically and technically superior enough to throw another human being then it stands to reason you can also dictate where and how that person will land. A simple hip throw from Judo in which the opponent is normally allowed to land on his back becomes a whole different animal when that person is then driven shoulder or head first into the ground. Same goes for any of the shoulder throws in this regard. A simple leg reap becomes a fight ender when the person's head is slammed into the pavement instead of just being swept onto their backside. Same goes for the chokes. The basic rear naked choke in which the elbow is aligned with the chin becomes a different story when the forearm is pressed across the trachea, instead. I've taken flak for this before, but I'll say it again. There are only so many practical ways to throw a human being. Look at a lot of the hand throws and foot sweeps that exist in Judo, but rarely come out during the competitive play. Why is this? Are they not practical? Maybe...maybe not. Contrast this with the fact that most ippons in international competition are scored with the same seven to eight throws. You decide. I know people don't like to hear it, but the most practical ways to throw/sweep a human being can be found in the competitive arenas of Judo, Sambo, and wrestling, and not necessarily in the antiseptic dojo atmosphere where "deadly strikes" and "super secret crippling throws" are given free reign to breed and perpetuate without the validation of fire testing. Take these practical methods that have been proven to work against resisting opponents, and look to see how they can be manipulated to serve the purpose at hand...whether it's scoring a point or cracking a skull. Craig "Keep It Simple" Stovall --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 07:22:10 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Choreographed Demo Ideas? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey mark, it would really help and come natural if you dance. Sounds like a good idea, what I would suggest is to analyze the lyrics, melody, and most important, the beat. Video tape your ideas, and since the main part of the song is bye bye bye, use that maybe having three people lined up who all fall back after a kick like a domino effect, after a kick or something. You're probably wondering yeah and just how in the world would you know this? I used to DJ, and I make custom beats for tournaments competition, forms. Also try turning up the song, closing your eyes and do what ever technique you feel at the time while VIDEO TAPING and watch the play back, you'll be surprised. Jye --- "Lasich, Mark D." wrote: > For two years now I have been wanting to create a > choreographed demo to the > NSync Song Bye Bye Bye. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Wallace, John" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 09:55:51 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Ninjutsu (was: Question about hapkido) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Jye I mean no disrespect to you (in fact, I'm only addressing this to you since you brought it up...anyone else, please feel free to jump in), but what evidence is there that the art practiced as ninjustu ia actually continuous with the techniques used by the ninja clans in feudal Japan? I have no evidence, nor have I heard persuasive arguments against the "authenticity" of ninjutsu, its just my natural skepticism. Personally I love the romanticism of the silent, stealthy assassin infiltrating the corrupt warlords compound - moving unseen past the outer guards, dispatching the inner guards with blowgun and bow, and slitting the throat of the sleeping daimyo; then the rapid escape, facilitated with poisoned shaken and clouds of pepper dust... Just not sure what connection that has with unarmed combat in modern day America, performed by folks in comfy black pajamas, or sweats and t-shirts, or hakamas or whatever else. I'm sure that in many cases there is no legitimate link, just people mixing kung-fu, kendo, and knife throwing with a dash of mystique. That doesn't interest me - I'm more curious about reasonably legitimate claims to that lineage to what I understand to be a very small, insular set of clans that operated 300 - 600 or so years ago. We all know how "young" TKD is, whatever the popular claims of 2000 years of history might say. Sincerely, JW -----Original Message----- From: Jye nigma [mailto:kingjye@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 4:54 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Question about hapkido Hi Ray. I was told by many ninjutsu practitioners that the founder of Aikido studied and was possibly a master of ninjutsu. Is he where hapkido came from? I heard the story of the Korean boy who was adopted by the japanese family of a aikido master who inherited the family art....I'm sure I messed it all up. But anyhow, ninjutsu has certain types of throws that are designed to cripple or kill a person on the receiving end...lol For instance, a certain throw would cause the person to fall on their neck snapping their neck. Anything at all like this in hapkido? Jye --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.404 / Virus Database: 228 - Release Date: 10/15/2002 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest