Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 03:01:47 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #540 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. tomahawk (Charles Richards) 2. Re:Gup (Troy Trudeau) 3. RE: Moonies (Stovall, Craig) 4. List slow or down (Ray Terry) 5. NA Weapons (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 6. Re: Re: lost (and hopefully found!) martial spirit (Kakita Kentei) 7. RE: Low Carb Dieting (McDonald, Jon) 8. RE: Re:Gup (Wallace, John) 9. Fort Wayne seminar (Hapkido Self Defense Center) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 06:12:28 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] tomahawk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Dana & Kirk, As ever thanks to the DD for adding to my knowledge base and/or confirming my perponderance of evidence. I appreciate both of your posts which confirm much of my research. Walk In Beauty, Charles R. Hunnunpa __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 06:31:57 -0800 (PST) From: Troy Trudeau To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:Gup Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The "Gup" or sometimes spelled "Geup" has the same translation as the "Kyu" Rank , as it is known in the Japanese and Okinawan martial arts styles, the translation of both means "Boy" or "Boyhood" as it was not believed when these levels were first coined that you reach "Manhood" until you reach the Black Belt level, these were developed by Jigoro Kano back in the 50's, the first colored belt colors were yellow,green and brown the other colors were brought in afterwords, one of the biggest innovators of the colored belt system was Grand Master Jhoon Rhee, whom also developed the foam padded sparring gear back in the late 60's and early 70's, Troy Trudeau www.wtswa.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 08:32:21 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Moonies Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray wrote, <<>> I've never heard of an ATA connection, but he does use martial arts organizations as recruiting fronts. Here are three of his recruiting organizations, courtesy of cult watcher Steven Hassan: 1. Martial Arts Federation for World Peace - Washington, D.C. 2. Unified Martial Arts - South Pasadena 3. Federation of United Martial Arts (Defunct) - St. Petersburg, FL The first one actually has a website. A search at altavista turned it up. BTW, any Moonies on the list? Craig "Thank God there ain't no Moonies out here in the boonies" Stovall --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:53:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] List slow or down Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net fyi... I'm headed to Hawaii for several days, thus the list will either be slow or down during that time. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:00:45 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] NA Weapons Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Charles, All cultures in North America were stone age upon first contact. I don't agree with the lack of progressive agriculture, it was there, but not in all cultures. But no cultures had metal capabilities. The use of war clubs and "axes" was very widespread and took many forms. Some used knapped flint blades, which were also used for other cutting chores and agriculture. Other cultures used ground shaped stone heads in various configurations from flat and bladelike to round and pointed or spiked. Some were single headed while others were double headed. I have some examples of both in my collection, unfortunately, I don't have any pictures. Other clubs were carved wood and bone. I don't think there was any real influence on war hammers either way from NA to Europe. I believe that the idea of cudgel probably predates all modern cultures since it is found in some form in all cultures on all continents. So the development was probably linear in all cultures. Here with the obvious superiority of metal over other materials for tomahawk and knives, they made excellent trade items for the Europeans. Knapped flint knives were common, but were generally small, at least until after contact. I believe that sharpened bone daggers may have been used over a long period of prehistory. Keep in mind that the current archaeological theory, based on numerous finds, is that the common tool kit included mostly "preforms", that is knapped but unfinished blades that could be finished into various tools within a few minutes by a skilled worker. So they could be made into scraper, knife or projectile point in short order. A lot of early travelers that wrote about life among NA's talk about wrestling, though not enough info is given to indicate how systemized it was. There were a number to NA games that clearly lend themselves to direct training for war, similar to the game in Moo Yae Dobo Tongji, and those found in other tribal cultures around the world. The premier weapons had to be the bow and arrow, which generally dates to 1500 to 1800 years bp (before present). Before that the atlatl was the premier weapon. As anyone knows who shoots a bow, anyone can pick a bow up and learn to shoot on their own, but to be really good requires a teacher. Teachers imply at least some form of systemization. Also, anyone that has ever tried to make their own bow and arrows knows that the manufacture of these weapons requires significant knowledge and skill. Danny Dunn --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:28:44 -0800 (PST) From: Kakita Kentei Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: lost (and hopefully found!) martial spirit To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net --- Denise Lee wrote: > > this post. . . I have saved a copy and may share it, with your > permission. > > I am grateful that you found my thoughts helpful and honored that you think > they might be of use to someone else! Please feel free to share. Thank you. My 2nd gup friend (She passed her test!!) and I talk at length. I'll be sharing this with her. > > > > >. . . if you never want to quit, there's something wrong with your > training experience. If it always goes smoothly then there is no challenge > to grow in your purpose. > > Chord number 1 that gets struck! I've been feeling less than challenged in > some repsects, and seemingly insurmountably challenged in others, with my > martial arts training. > > And this will happen over & over again along your journey. One step, one > breath at a time. FAR, FAR greater minds than mine have made it clear that > we should just surrender ourselves to the process. Whatever it is that we're > doing at the moment is what's important and what deserves our total focus. > (It's a "Zen" thing:) "It is what it is." Trust your instructor. Trust the > process. Trust yourself! Embrace your art. Embrace the practice. If you do > that, make that a habit, you will meet whatever challenges you face. At some > point in your journey, you may find that what you're embracing just plain > doesn't "feel" right anymore. That's when it's time to find another path. I've been hung up on the process, and my own reactions to it. I'm beginning to see things more clearly. > > > > > "Why am I doing this? What is my purpose?" > > This has been some questions I have been asking myself. I have a lot of > answers. First, it's to eventually achieve the intermediary goal of > obtaining my black belt. Second, I want to see if I have what it takes to > get there. Every once in a while I say "I don't know why I'm doing this to > myself." > > I really like the way you state your first reason -- "the intermediary > goal." So many people consider themselves "finished" when they achieve that > black belt step. ("Step" being the important word.) As to your second goal, > you must persist to find out just what "it" is that it takes to get there. > Some of "it" you know intellectually, but most of "it" remains to be > experienced -- & that's much of the joy in the journey. Which brings me to > your third point about "I don't know why I'm doing this to myself." This is > pretty much a universal question, prompted by a bazillion different reasons. > One answer I often give is this: "If it isn't fun, go find another way to > hurt yourself;-)" Those doubts -- of ourselves & of the choices we make -- > exist in most phases of our lives, not just our martial training. And, if > this was easy, everyone would do it. You've probably heard this many times > from your instructor! Yes, and I have even repeated it a few times. > > > GM Kee founded the system I study, and this inspires me. Do you have an > ISBN for texts he's written? > > Sadly, his works are considered proprietary by the USSBDMDK Federation, but > you can purchase them (VERY expensive) from http://www.soobahkdo.com. I can > find no ISBN in Volume One, but the Library of Congress Catalog Number is: > 79-110358. You may find some great information on Master Dan Segarra's > Warrior-Scholar website, which has some useful philosophical information re: > Korean martial arts, although there is a strong emphasis on Soo Bahk Do. > http://www.warrior-scholar.com/ I looked those up. I may buy them. Just for the information. We're Moo Duk Kwan Tae Kwon Do, which is a branch from GM Kee. I only last evening found out the name of my SaBumNim's first teacher. > > Master Dennis McHenry's site is also very informative & provides some great > links: > http://users.ev1.net/~D.McHenry/TangSooDo/index.htm > > If you are mostly interested in the Song of the Sip Sahm Seh (Song of the > Thirteen Influences/Postures), & other such philosophical background to the > martial arts, I would highly recommend a book by Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming: "Tai > Chi Secrets of the Ancient Masters." ISBN: 1-886969-71-X Published by YMAA > Publication Center, Boston, MA. I think I get mine from Amazon or B & N. Great resources. I think I will look into picking them up. > > > . . . at times in the dojang, I feel a sort of emotional void. I guess I > feel a bit selfish, but I need some positive attention once in a while, even > if it's just a "Good one!" or "Nice kata." > > We all appreciate positive reinforcement for our efforts! It's human nature. > Some instructors are more free with this kind of feedback than others. And > sometimes even those who are free with this kind of feedback have YOUR > interests in mind when they may not give you that positive feedback you > seek. The goal is to get it from yourself. To develop your own > self-awareness so that you can know, really know, when what you are doing is > being done well (or not) -- without needing the feedback from anyone else. > To be honest enough with yourself to celebrate your successes, not only > criticize yourself for your mistakes. You make much sense, thank you. > > > Yes, my father has come through the operation extremely well, and is > making strides daily. > > That is wonderful news, indeed!! > > > This is tough, the senior belts in my school keep pointing that a green > belt's tenure is filled with empotional highs and lows, and that this is not > just acceptable, but appropriate. > > So true. There is so much change occurring during this phase. Moving through > the intermediate stage -- from a beginning intermediate to an advanced > intermediate -- takes a whole lot of learning and growth. Change. It's hard > work sometimes. And sometimes it's no work at all, except you have to be > aware enough to notice it:) > > > My biggest fault here is that I push myself too hard and try to keep up > with the others. I'm embarrassed by my physical conditioning so I over > compesate and don't flow. It's like I am not being natural with it, and it > feels "wrong". > > If you focus on the work of others, you are not focusing on your own work. > Trying to be "like" others is fruitless. You must be "like" yourself. But if > you focus on others, you'll only know them. If you focus on yourself, you'll > come to know & understand yourself. If you focus on others' strengths, > you'll never find your own. Look inside. Be honest enough to see your > strengths. You have many. Then use those strengths to minimize &/or overcome > your weaknesses. My first instructor shared some wise words of advice with > me: "Don't MAKE your technique happen. LET it happen." That takes at the > very least: patience, many repetitions, and self-awareness. This is a thing I have been overlooking. > > > . . . perspectives have truly given me the key, which I had all along, but > couldn't see. Thank you! > > You are most welcome. Might I suggest that you speak with your own > instructor re: some reading references that s/he might recommend for you. > Generally at this stage of training, time spent in physical training is the > most beneficial -- to help you not get too focused on intellectualizing the > learning. But, those of us who are "older" students generally benefit > greatly from pursuing the "deeper" meanings of our training. Your instructor > will undoubtedly have some suggestions for you. I shall ask Sabumnim Hillgrove for this. He's really a great teacher. > > Best wishes to you on this shared martial journey. (We are, afterall, in > this together.) And I must add that your instructor is quite fortunate to > have such a thoughtful, determined student as you. Thank you again! > > Denise > > "You will be what you practice." > intentlee@snet.net __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "McDonald, Jon" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:17:11 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Low Carb Dieting Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey Don, Were you giving yourself that one day a week to eat anything you want while you were losing weight, or after you lost the weight and were maintaining it? __________________________________________________ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 06:55:32 -0600 From: Don Moore To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Low Carb Diet Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Fred and Michael, I lost 40 pounds following a low carb diet and maintained my weight for over a year. I would eat anything I wanted 1 day a week and still maintained my weight. While losing weight I found I could add more carbs to one or two meals a week (supper) as long as I finished eating within 1 hour. ( One of the methods found in Dr Atkins book credited to the authors of "The Carbohydrate Addicts Diet". **************************************************************************** This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Unless otherwise stated, opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the author and are not endorsed by the author's employer. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Wallace, John" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re:Gup Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:55:15 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Kano invented the black belt as a way of distinguising between his senior students (yudansha) and the newer students (mudansha) in 1886. Colored ranks were introduced by a student of Kano's, Sensei Mikonisuke Kaiwashi, when he began teaching Judo in Europe in 1935. Jigoro Kano himself died in 1938. Dates courtesy of http://judoinfo.com/obi.htm -John W. I Dan, TKD Fremont, CA -----Original Message----- From: Troy Trudeau [mailto:taesool@wtswa.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 6:32 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:Gup The "Gup" or sometimes spelled "Geup" has the same translation as the "Kyu" Rank , as it is known in the Japanese and Okinawan martial arts styles, the translation of both means "Boy" or "Boyhood" as it was not believed when these levels were first coined that you reach "Manhood" until you reach the Black Belt level, these were developed by Jigoro Kano back in the 50's, the first colored belt colors were yellow,green and brown the other colors were brought in afterwords, one of the biggest innovators of the colored belt system was Grand Master Jhoon Rhee, whom also developed the foam padded sparring gear back in the late 60's and early 70's, Troy Trudeau www.wtswa.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002 --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:49:13 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Fort Wayne seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net We are heading up to Fort Wayne early Saturday morning before sunrise as we will have class Friday evening here at the dojang. Fred, I spoke with Mr. New yesterday who stated that about 1/3 of the pre-registered folks are taekwondo. I know of 2 taekwondo schools here in the Cincinnati area going. I was told that that attendees from Michigan to Kansas will be there. Don't worry about falling, he has a 2 inch matted floor in his dojang. Make sure you say hello, it will be a pleasure to meet you. Jere R. Hilland, USKMAF hapkido 5th dan. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest