Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 03:01:51 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #569 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Today's Topics: 1. 108 (Khalkee@netscape.net) 2. 108 (J.R. West) 3. Re: Will the real ITF stand up (Robert Martin) 4. Lott's book (Meghan Gardner) 5. New TKD Book (Charles Veuleman) 6. FWIW, Informal History of CDK TKD (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 09:59:58 -0500 From: Khalkee@netscape.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] 108 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net It's related to the siginificance of the number 9 in ancient Oriental sciences.  Not to be confused with numerology, numbers whose digits sum to 9 are also significant.  What's the significance?  Varies :-) The "ancients" used 108 to count their prayers, perform their exercises, train their fighting skills, etc. (e.g., 108 Tai Chi, 108 Wooden Dummy). charm straddles the interface between luck, protection, and religion, where many such quasi-sanctified charms can be found. Here's an excerpt from a commentary on "108" in the East . . . The number 108 and its 9-divisible factors are considered highly auspicious in Eastern religions. In Buddhism, the number 108 specifically refers to the 108 defilements. Hindu and Buddhist rosaries have 108 beads; The later Catholic rosary has 54, the Islamic rosary has 99.  It is a custom among Japanese Buddhists to ring a large bell 108 times at the beginning of each year for new year's luck; and among some sects of Buddhism, there are said to be 108 human beings who could have achieved nirvana or buddhahood, but have chosen to reincarnate on Earth to serve suffering humanity. The use of 108 in religious symbology derives from the earlier Dravidian religions of India, where 108 was tied to the lunar calendar, the computation of the lengths of the yugas or cosmic ages, and to worship of deities such as Bhairava/Siva and Kali. Ancient rosaries for the worship of Siva also have 108 beads. The significance of the number 108 stretches back possibly even to ancient Sumer.  It can be found in the astronomy of ancient India (Dravidians, Rig Veda), for example, "Birth and Early Development of Indian Astronomy" by Subhash Kak, Louisiana State University . . . Consider now the cosmic model used by the ancients. The earth is at the center, and the sun and the moon orbit the earth at different distances. If the number 108 was taken to represent symbolically the distance between the earth and the sky, the question arises as to why it was done. The answer is apparent if one considers the actual distances of the sun and the moon. The number 108 is roughly the average distance that the sun is in terms of its own diameter from the earth; likewise, it is also the average distance that the moon is in terms of its own diameter from the earth. It is owing to this marvellous coincidence that the angular size of the sun and the moon, viewed from the earth, is about identical. It is easy to compute this number. The angular measurement of the sun can be obtained quite easily during an eclipse. The angular measurement of the moon can be made on any clear full moon night. A easy check on this measurement would be to make a person hold a pole at a distance that is exactly 108 times its length and confirm that the angular measurement is the same. Nevertheless, the computation of this number would require careful observations. Note that 108 is an average and due to the ellipticity of the orbits of the earth and the moon the distances vary with the seasons. It is likely, therefore, that observations did not lead to the precise number 108, but it was chosen as the true value of the distance since it is equal to 27 × 4, because of the mapping of the sky into 27 naks.atras. __________________________________________________________________ The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "J.R. West" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:34:21 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] 108 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I was always told that the recurrence of the number 108 was due to it being 9 more than 99....J. R. West www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Robert Martin" To: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:27:04 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Will the real ITF stand up Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Miller, I don't really believe anyone is lying. Instead the situation is one of interpration of events. Unfortunately, none of the groups have the inclination to go to court and prove their case. The fact is that the real ITF died with General Choi. All that we can do is watch and see what happens or pick a group and support it. In my case I'm content to follow GM Chuck Sereff and the USTF. Robert Martin > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 06:54:24 -0500 > From: Todd Miller > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Will the real ITF stand up > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > I am wondering where is the REAL ITF located and who is in charge? I > have been reading about this one and that one who claim the same > things. Someone has to be lying. > > Todd Miller --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Meghan Gardner" To: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:54:03 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Lott's book Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I was impressed with Lott's book and so looked into some of the rebuttals. This was one that I found. I appreciated the fact that he countered Lott without getting frothed at the mouth. Whether his counters are accurate is a matter of interpretation of the statistics - a feat beyond me. I would like to see these two authors do a *joint* study of statistics where they both agree with the summations for each sub-heading... and then see what the end result is. http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~lambert/guns/lott/lott.pdf Meghan Gardner Director Guard Up, Inc. Burlington, MA 781.270.4800 www.guardup.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:26:35 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Veuleman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] New TKD Book Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Digest, I recently purchased from AMAZON a new TKD book, title CHUNG DO KWAN Power Of TaeKwonDo. I must say so far I am not that impressed with it. The author is one of Master Son Duk Sung's students. Alot of the material overlaps with Son's first text KOREAN KARATE The Art Of TaeKwonDo, but some of it conflicts (PYONG AN 1). Has anyone else read this book, and if so, what were your thoughts on it? Why would they change the form and call it the same thing (not to say that I haven't seen it done before in the martial arts)? Also, Where is bruce? Charlie V. ===== ------------------------------------- L. Charles Veuleman Natchitoches Karate Institute 204 Rapides Drive Natchitoches, LA 71457 318-356-7727 http://www.bluewavekarate.com ------------------------------------- --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:57:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] FWIW, Informal History of CDK TKD Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net FWIW, the following URL has one version of the "Informal History of Chung Do Kwan Tae Kwon Do". http://www.sos.mtu.edu/husky/tkdhist.htm Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest