Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 03:01:48 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #574 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Will the real ITF stand up (Robert Martin) (Dave Steffen) 2. Re: ITF (Dave Steffen) 3. ITF Basics (Dave Steffen) 4. Condolences (Rudy Timmerman) 5. First Annual Moja Kwan Invitational Tournament (Charles Richards) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Dave Steffen Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 16:39:25 -0700 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Will the real ITF stand up (Robert Martin) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > From: "Robert Martin" > Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:27:04 -0700 > > > I am wondering where is the REAL ITF located and who is in > > charge? I have been reading about this one and that one who > > claim the same things. Someone has to be lying. > > I don't really believe anyone is lying. Instead the situation is > one of interpration of events. I agree. > Unfortunately, none of the groups have the inclination to go to > court and prove their case. That may yet happen, at least concerning recent events in the "old" ITF concerning Masters MacLellan and McCallum. > The fact is that the real ITF died with General Choi. I disagree - it's pretty clear that the ITF he was in charge of when he died (the "Old ITF", as opposed to Master Choi Jung Hwa's "New ITF") is the "ITF" that _he_ thought was legitimate, and that this is the "ITF" that is currently having some issues with the Interim President. Also, Grand Masters Rhee, Hwang, and Park think that this is the "real" ITF, which is pretty convincing. In fact, it's probably unanimous among the Grand Masters that this is the "real" one; GM Sereff left the ITF for his own reasons. Speaking of which - I've only heard fourth-hand what these are. Robert, can you add anything? I tried to check the USTF web-site, but it appears to be down (or is just very, very Linux-unfriendly right now). -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Steffen Wave after wave will flow with the tide Dept. of Physics And bury the world as it does Colorado State University Tide after tide will flow and recede steffend@lamar.colostate.edu Leaving life to go on as it was... - Peart / RUSH "The reason that our people suffer in this way.... is that our ancestors failed to rule wisely". -General Choi, Hong Hi --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Dave Steffen Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 16:53:30 -0700 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: ITF Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > From: Todd Miller > > I am just what are the differances between the North Korean group, > The group in Austria and the USTF? Taking a deep breath... In principle, the "N. Korean" and "Austrian" groups are the same group - the ITF that General Choi was in charge of when he died (as opposed to the "New ITF" that the General's son, Master Choi Jung Hwa, is in charge of - that's an entirely different story). The problem is that at an election in N. Korea 100 days after the General died, Mr. Chang Ung was elected president of the ITF. The Interim President, Master MacLellan (did I spell that right), and a bunch of other people, including Master McCallum, claim that this election was illegal, and are refusing to abide by it - in particular, Master MacLellan has refused to step down. Not suprisingly, things got less plesant and more complicated from there. Was the election illegal? I have no idea. I have been told that the requisite number of representatives were there. I haven't heard any _clear_ arguments as to why it was illegal. I do know that the "Austrian" group tried to put all three remaining Grand Masters under diciplinary suspension. (Legal issues aside, this strikes me as being a particularly silly thing to do. ;-) The USTF, on the other hand, is - or was - one of the ITF's two National Governing Bodies in the United States. GM Sereff has been its president for ever. At some point after the General died, he pulled the USTF out of the ITF. The USTF continues to operate (as far as I know) pretty much as it always has. > From: Ray Terry > > > I am just what are the differances between the North Korean group, The > > group in Austria and the USTF? > > And the Canadian group. I suppose you could call Master Choi Jung Hwa's group that. Ironically, they "broke away" (if you can call it that) a year or two back, after Master Choi was elected President of the ITF. A whole bunch of people - including General Choi and all three of his Grand Masters* - claimed that election was illegal (or just decided to ignore it). This is where the "New" and "Old" ITF's parted ways. * GM Park was promoted to 9th dan afterward, AFAIK. > It seems that at this point the diffs are purely political in nature, > not technical. Yes, all these organizations continue to practice "ITF-style" TKD. It's all political. Alas, I'm now at a rank where I can't really ignore all this stuff any more. ;-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Steffen Wave after wave will flow with the tide Dept. of Physics And bury the world as it does Colorado State University Tide after tide will flow and recede steffend@lamar.colostate.edu Leaving life to go on as it was... - Peart / RUSH "The reason that our people suffer in this way.... is that our ancestors failed to rule wisely". -General Choi, Hong Hi --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Dave Steffen Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 17:20:09 -0700 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] ITF Basics Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > From: Ray Terry > Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 17:51:14 -0800 (PST) > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > > > However, he might do a nice form, but he is doing it early > > > seventies ITF style. The ITF basics have changed A LOT since > > > then. > > > > How can the baiscs change on the forms? > > It probably relates to the sine-wave approach to basic motion > currently employed by the ITF. ??? Yes. The General didn't introduce the sine-wave until the mid-80's (at least, that's when it got to the U.S.A.). Before that, ITF technique looked a whole lot like the Japanese Karate it was originally descended from. After that... whoa! That is, I suppose, the blessing/curse of learning an art while the founder is still around - they keep changing things! Ji, Han Jae's top students tell me that he does the same thing - every month, things are a little different. ;-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Steffen Wave after wave will flow with the tide Dept. of Physics And bury the world as it does Colorado State University Tide after tide will flow and recede steffend@lamar.colostate.edu Leaving life to go on as it was... - Peart / RUSH "The reason that our people suffer in this way.... is that our ancestors failed to rule wisely". -General Choi, Hong Hi --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 17:24:59 -0500 From: "Rudy Timmerman" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Condolences Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My most sincere condolences to the family and students of GM Wolmershauser. As a good martial artist, he will be missed by many. Rudy W. Timmerman National Korean Martial Arts Association --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 20:35:14 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: Dojang Digest Cc: Dan Hydrick , James Henry Subject: [The_Dojang] First Annual Moja Kwan Invitational Tournament Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Master Terry and others, The First Annual Moja Kwan Invitational Tournament has been moved from March 29, 2003 to June 7, 2003. This new date will fall after the Georgia Association AAU Qualifier that is now March 29, 2003, and exactly one month before AAU Nationals in Knoxville, TN. Anyone who is willing to compete by AAU Taekwondo rules (and becomes an AAU member) is welcome. We have already had three inquiries from the International community, and plan to invite Tennessee, North Carolina, and Georgia AAU members to take part in this “get ready for nationals” event, which is another reason we chose to move the date to after regionals and before nationals. I will post a link here when the online registration is ready, and paper registration packages will be ready by the March USKMAF event in Jackson, or just email me to keep you on the mailing list. For those who had already begun to make plans for March 29th we apologize for any inconvenience. Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards Moja Kwan TangSooDo __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest