Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 14:01:02 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #585 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. HanMooDo (Klaas Barends) 2. Lineages, shadows, diciples, whatever (J T) 3. John Chung vs George Chung....sorry (J T) 4. RE: Successors (Stovall, Craig) 5. Handicapped Students (GILBERT MANCILLAS) 6. Been Gone, Telegraph? (Charles Veuleman) 7. Knee Forward Kicking (Khalkee@netscape.net) 8. Side Kicks again (Christopher Spiller) 9. Re: Handicapped Students (Ray Terry) 10. Re: Knee Forward Kicking (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 11:56:57 +0100 From: Klaas Barends To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] HanMooDo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi, Today I stubbled across http://www.hanmoodo.co.kr/ I've never heard of this martial art before, but it does seem to have a lot in common with hapkido and hankido. (it shares the same principles) Any members on the list who can enlighten me on this martial art? -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 05:59:14 -0800 (PST) From: J T To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Lineages, shadows, diciples, whatever Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net During the Gatthering in Chicago this year I had a rare honor and opprotunity to sit and chat with GM Timmerman and GM DeAlba and chat about martial arts. One of the topics that came up was lineages and who to pass the art down to. My question is why must one GM select just one person and designate him/her as the sole inheritor of their art? We have already seen so many examples where this causes nothing but problems. (Example: GM Chueng vs. GM Ting of Yip Man's Wing Chun) As many of us know, students come from a variety of cultural backgrounds, economic statuses and family upbringings. So what makes us, as instructors think that they will interpret all that we teach in the same way? Do we want carbon copies of ourselves? If you ask me that is just plain egotistical. There is nothing wrong with keeping the tradition of martial arts as long as it does not prohibit its progression. The bottom line is that we have to do away with with all this sole inheritor crap and just tell our students to teach how they have interpreted your teachings. Even in the article GM Ji said that many of his students adapted his techniques to meet their own strength and movement. Does this make their HKD wrong? Remember, we own nothing in the martial arts. GM Ji is not the originator of HKD, it is simply his understanding of the movements taught by his teachers. He simply gave those movements a name. (I am using GM Ji as an example since the article was on him, please place any GM's name there that you wish to) Even in the next article with GM Cyrus and the Choson Kwon Bup tells how GM Cyrus is taking the art to a newer level. Does this make his Choson system wrong now that he is no longer teaching it just like his GM? No. If anything his GM should be proud. That is what I hope my students will do some day...take what I teach them and run with it. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 06:10:37 -0800 (PST) From: J T To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] John Chung vs George Chung....sorry Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Ray, thanks for that slap upside the head. I totally confused the two. Sorry __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 09:16:56 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Successors Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray wrote, <<>> Point well taken. The students would probably be better served by a "council of elders", if you will. However, my guess is that pockets of students would eventually align themselves with their favorite elder based upon technical flavor or (more likely) personality traits. Then we'd see a splintering of the whole into separate organizations, each headed by the group's chosen leader. I think it's just part of the human condition. We prefer one leader even if that person is nothing more than a figure head. We can see it across the entire spectrum of organized human behavior...governments, corporations, churches, social groups, unions, cults, etc. Maybe someone here schooled in sociology or anthropology can shed some light on that phenomenon? --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "GILBERT MANCILLAS" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 10:19:27 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Handicapped Students Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I though I have trained in Hapkido my reasons fro relying is not as a martial artist, but as a parent. My son Manuel was born with a severe case of spina bifida. So severe that he will never have the ability to walk. Because of my love and intense interest in the martial arts he too has become interested. But my search for a martial arts school that will teach him has been without fruit. There is definitely a lack of martial arts training for individuals who are physically challenged yet face the same challenges others with normal physical usage face. We all know what martial arts training can do for a youngster who has normal physical abilities. Just think what that same martial arts training can do for a youngster that is wheelchair bound. The confidence that child can gain will go along way to preparing him or her for the challenges they will face as they later in life. Now I'm no martial arts instructor but some of you who read this are. Now consider what a martial arts program for the Handicapped can do for your community, your students, and your school. You can create better understanding on both sides of the wheelchair by including those that are physically challenged in your classes. I don't mean to preach, just plant some ideas. Thank You for your time and Happy Holidays; Gilbert Colorado Springs, Co. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 11:04:26 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Veuleman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Been Gone, Telegraph? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Digest, I just got back from a little prechristmas get together weekend, and saw all the side kick posts. I am glad everybody got all that information out there. To finalize my thoughts, I read where someone posted to me that the foot to knee chamber was to slow and to much telegraphing is given, and that point A to point B is the fastest, and so on. My view on that is like I said at first, that if that is the kick you have been doing for years, it is naturally going to be faster for you. My point A just happens to be right by my standing knee, and plus, as I think Ray said, It gives you more options since so many kicks can be thrown from this chamber. Plus my girlfriend likes the booty twisting. :D YITMA Charlie Veuleman ===== ------------------------------------- L. Charles Veuleman Natchitoches Karate Institute 204 Rapides Drive Natchitoches, LA 71457 318-356-7727 http://www.bluewavekarate.com ------------------------------------- --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 15:40:04 -0500 From: Khalkee@netscape.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Knee Forward Kicking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, In Shaolin training, through intermediate level kicks were done in a way similar to Korean styles (but never with foot beside knee which I thought [maybe mistakenly?] was more of a Japanese thing). In advanced level we began deceptive/speed kicking, all kicks (except for spinning kicks) done with the knee forward as you described. __________________________________________________________________ The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:47:34 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Spiller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Side Kicks again Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Now that I'm done with my grad school finals I thought I'd reply to a couple posts that came up. >>Not to sound like an ignoramous, but I'm not too familiar with ITF techniques. Could you tell me what the distinction between side piercing vs side thrusting kick is? Thanks, Frank Clay<< Well, basically the difference is in two areas: the chamber position and the attacking tool. Side piercing kicks chamber with the kicking foot's footsword at the stationary leg's knee joint (not on it, of course). This allows for a twisting of the attacking tool into the target much like a punch. The side thrusting kick attacks with the ball of the foot, not the foot sword. Think of a front kick on its side and you're pretty close. Now the chamber position begins with lifting the foot off the ground so the knee is parallel to the floor. Then you lift the leg that will kick so the lower leg is parallel to the floor. Then you kick by thrusting straight out (no pivot of the attacking tool). Didn't Dave Steffan do up a post about the physics of a side piercing kick a few years ago? You might want to check the archives for that. It was pretty informative if I remember correctly. >>Robert Block I came into the discussion of side kicks late in the game. someone give a brief synopsis of the two kicks. ( Or did I sense three types?) I understand and have been taught foot to knee chamber, but that is only the second before the strike, when it comes to telepathing the kick when the knee is raised it is very difficult to know what is coming until the pivot and roll over.<< Yes, I did throw in a third kick just to confuse things. The side pushing kick is basically a side piercing kick with less speed and therefore not a lot of penetrating power (which is not to say it won't hurt if you're hit by it :-). It's used to push someone away from you. As for chambering the kick foot to knee but only before the kick is executed I'd agree in the sense that too often people prepare their kicks like they're posing for a picture. It really should be one fluid motion: "Stance-Preparation-Kick-Withdrawal." This would make telgraphing much less likely to occur and would preserve the twist of the side piercing kick. I know it sounds like a lot but I've seen people do it and they have kicks like gun shots. By the way. The pivoting of the base leg should not take place before the kick itself is executed. This makes it easier to utilize the rolling of the hips for added power. I've heard people say not to pivot until the foot is almost at the target itself. Still working on THAT, but I've always been pretty good at not pivoting before hand. Hope this helps. Taekwon, Chris __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Handicapped Students To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 13:54:14 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > think what that same martial arts training can do for a youngster that is > wheelchair bound. The confidence that child can gain will go along way to > preparing him or her for the challenges they will face as they later in > life. Now I'm no martial arts instructor but some of you who read this are. > Now consider what a martial arts program for the Handicapped can do for your > community, your students, and your school. You can create better > understanding on both sides of the wheelchair by including those that are > physically challenged in your classes. I don't mean to preach, just plant > some ideas. Great thoughts from Gilbert. Have any instructors here tried borrowing or renting a wheelchair for a few days/weeks to work out a special program of hand-to-hand techniques for those in a chair. Just curious... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Knee Forward Kicking To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 13:56:23 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > In Shaolin training, through intermediate level kicks were done in a way similar to Korean styles (but never with foot beside knee which I thought [maybe mistakenly?] was more of a Japanese thing). In advanced level we began deceptive/speed kicking, all kicks (except for spinning kicks) done with the knee forward as you described. > Knee forward is the way they are done in Kukki-Taekwondo. Unless they have changed it again. :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest