Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 03:01:52 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #1 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Korea Kido Hae and the World Kido Association (Michael Rowe) 2. re:Korean Martial Artial Arts Staffs (bmac2) 3. Re: Happy New Year (bmac2) 4. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Weapons_stuff_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 5. terms (freddie bishop) 6. Re: Staves and the linguistic debate (Kent Frazier) 7. Re: Re: Korea Kido Hae and the World Kido Association (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Michael Rowe" To: Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 11:02:35 -0600 Organization: Dan Il Press Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Korea Kido Hae and the World Kido Association Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Often many people say that these organizations are NOT the same thing. However Directly from the Korean Kido Hae they say that the World Kido Hae is a subsideary of their organization. This makes it a definate connection. Michael Rowe --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 00:37:58 -0600 From: "bmac2" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] re:Korean Martial Artial Arts Staffs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Korean Martial Staffs AS FAR AS I HAVE BEEN TRAINED (1st dahn Kong Shin Hakido) we have three lengths, short to long. Many diferent tech's for each size Consult YOUR martrial arts instuctor for EACH as they may differ with each style of Korean Martial Arts and beyond Kat, BMAC ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Hapkido Hoshinsul Dojang" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 07:30:01 -0500 >In the past decade I have run into many KMA practitioners who call the bong >a bo-staff. I am not sure why as they are actually saying staff- staff. >Bongsul is the term for the techniques of the staff in the KMA. As far as >making your own staff, we have for years at about $5 (US) each out of nice >hard wood. In Houston, I found a hardwood store in the YP under lumber. They >had one-inch dowels off all type of wood and sold it by the foot. Here in >Cincinnati they can only get walnut (I have only found one store here) and a >5-foot or 6 foot staff runs only about $5. We then sandpaper and oil them - >it is relatively simple. Tung oil appears to work the best. Jere R. Hilland >www.hapkidoselfdefense.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 00:39:14 -0600 From: "bmac2" To: , Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Happy New Year Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net RIGHT BACK AT YA!!!! ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Kevin Janisse" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 20:55:44 -0800 >I wish all of you the best for the coming new year and hope your >relationships, life, health, and your finances are blessed by God for the >entire year and beyond. > >Oh yeah....Keep teaching and training hard too! > >Sincerely, > >Kevin Janisse >NKMAA >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 10:20:51 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Weapons_stuff_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Fred: "...... What other weapons are associated with the KMA's? Can you assume that some of the weapons of Okinawa were also used in Korea? Such as the tonfa or the kama or sai......" Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido has six traditional weapons. Call them "modern" traditional weapons if you like. They are the mini-stick, short stick, cane, sword, staff and knife. They are learned in this order, and after the 200 or so basic MT hand techniques so that the biomechanics of a later weapon builds on those of an earlier weapon and all build on the biomechanics of the MT hand techniques. That said, if you would like to examine older traditional weapons there are the flail, long stick (once again interchanged with the cane on occasion) about five different kinds of sword, glaive, fork, cudgeol, staff and even sheild. Not mentioned are more "civil" rather than "martial" weapons including stones, plates, pipes, sand and even spitting. Sitting somewhere in the fence are such items as rope, belts, knife and truncheon. Get a copy of the Mu Yei To Bo Tong Ji. It should be required reading for anyone who has an interest in doing things in a more "traditional manner". Lastly, let me say that I am sure that anyone who wants to promote commercial interests is going to take whatever skills they have picked-up in their MA careers and market them appropriately. That said I have long since stopped lobbying for instructors to refrain from "borrowing" weapons from Okinawan, Southern Chinese and Japanese traditions and make an arguement at some later date that these weapons are somehow related to some long lost Korean practice. (Hell, just between you and me I still have not figured out why Kuk Sool Won chose to use Southern Preying Mantis in their practice rather than Long Fist, Taizu Chuan, Northern Preying Mantis or Tam Tui which would have been more in keeping with the historical influences of Korean arts.Nobody has ever explained how it was that bodyguards of the "Royal Court" ever came to know and use training developed half a continent away in Southern China.) For my money folks are free to practice whatever weapons they want. My issue is with representing non-korean weapons as Korean just to keep the money coming in. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 09:48:58 -0800 (PST) From: freddie bishop To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] terms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net When I was with Master Chung of Kokomo, Indiana, he would just tell us to get our poles, he didn't use the bong term. I found the term while reading a TKD Times article on the Korean Jang bong. Master Chung was a traditionalist from the word "go" but I think he used English to get his point across, but that was just how Master Chung was, straight forward and bullshitin'! Fred __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 12:45:10 -0800 (PST) From: Kent Frazier To: Dojang-Digest Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Staves and the linguistic debate Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey, welcome back Bruce, haven't seen you post in a while. The confusion I was referring to is due to the fact that the word bong also refers to a slang term for a marijuana water-pipe. I have no objection to using the Korean term, and I don't think there is anything wrong with it, I was just saying that a lot of American practitioners probably use 'bo' instead of 'bong' to avoid snickers from other people when discussing their art. We call the staff a 'bo' in our dojo, but then again, we use primarily Japanese terminology (let's not open up that can of worms again, I think we reached as much of an agreement as we could on the matter last time around.) So no, people should not be ashamed of the Korean word, and 'bong' is a fine term to describe a staff. I was just postulating the reason why many English-speaking practitioners of the Korean arts refer to staves as 'bo' rather than the more proper 'bong.' Also, that part of my posting was primarily meant in jest, so any offense taken because of it is unnecessary. It seems that you inferred a great deal more from what I said than what I actually said. Keep in mind that it can be dangerous to extrapolate more meaning from a statement than exactly what it states. I meant nothing more than what I said. I do not think that Korean arts are better represented using Japanese terminology. I also happen to agree with you that simply using the English terms is a good way to overcome linguistic misunderstandings. In any case, glad you made it back to the list, we all need someone to keep us in check. Happy New Year everyone. Respectfully, Kent Original Message: Confusion? What confusion is that, Kent? These are Korean arts, so why should there be confusion using Korean terminolgy? Taken a step farther, just why should the Korean art be better represented by using Japanese terminology? Are you suggesting that because the Japanese arts are more widely known that their terminology should somehow become a defacto standard? I, for one, have no problem with someone using English equivalents to overcome a language issue (IE: "Jang Bong" = "staff"). THAT would certainly address confusion. I would rather not hear that someone espouses Japanese terminolgy for English-speaking practitioners because it might somehow help understand Korean arts better. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Korea Kido Hae and the World Kido Association To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 14:51:13 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Often many people say that these organizations are NOT the same thing. > However Directly from the Korean Kido Hae they say that the World Kido Hae > is a subsideary of their organization. This makes it a definate connection. Yes, I agree that they are connected, but it is also clear that they are not the same thing. To the best of my knowledge, there are three HKD orgs recognized by the government of S.Korea to grant HKD Dans. Those are the Korea Kido Assoc (Daehan Kidohae), the IHF and the KHF. These orgs are recognized via the Ministry of Culture and Tourism. Orginally it was the Ministry of Education that controlled this area. Now this is not to say that groups like the recently renamed KHA did not offer fine training. Many think that if they receive a Dan cert from the World Kido group that is has the same prestige and goverment backing (if that matters to you) as one from the Korea Kido Assoc. But it does not, they are not the same. Related yes, but not the same. Or so I understand... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. 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