Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 18:32:03 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #3 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Since we are on the topic of Staffs (Warrior Spirit Martial Arts) 2. Re: Korea Kido Hae and the World Kido ? (ramon Navarro) 3. jinx (Charles Richards) 4. Re: Re: Korea Kido Hae and the World Kido ? (Ray Terry) 5. Re: Kidohae Question (Ray Terry) 6. Staffs (Warrior Spirit Martial Arts) 7. Golden Gate Open (Ray Terry) 8. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Warm_Wishes_to_Everyone?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 9. Re:_Warm_Wishes_to_Everyone (Ray Terry) 10. more ITF news (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Warrior Spirit Martial Arts" To: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 22:17:44 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Since we are on the topic of Staffs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Since we are on the topic of Staffs I was wondering if anyone on the digest knows where I can get raw rattan staffs, not the generic supplier brand I'm looking for the one's that can take a beating without splitting or becoming mush, the kind that sparks and smells like sulphur, if you know what I'm talking about you probably have what I'm looking for. Any Information you can provide will be greatly appreciated Travis and Sandra Borneman Warrior Spirit Martial Arts http://www3.telus.net/WarriorSpirit/ warriorspirit@telus.net --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 08:30:48 -0800 (PST) From: ramon Navarro To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Korea Kido Hae and the World Kido ? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi you all and Happy New Year and be blessed. I wonder about the past October in Korea there was a meeting with many Masters and Grand Masters in wich at the end Grand Master Ji, HanJae was elected the president. Can you mailly, Ray, tell us qhat do you know about or anyone else that knows about this subject ? HAP Ramon Navarro Hapkido SabomNim SongMooKwan Hapkido Panama Los Llanos de Curundu, Panama. 7. Re: Re: Korea Kido Hae and the World Kido Association (Ray Terry) -- __--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Korea Kido Hae and the World Kido Association To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 14:51:13 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Often many people say that these organizations are NOT the same thing. However Directly from the Korean Kido Hae they say that the World Kido Hae is a subsideary of their organization. This makes it a definate connection. Yes, I agree that they are connected, but it is also clear that they are not the same thing. To the best of my knowledge, there are three HKD orgs recognized by the government of S.Korea to grant HKD Dans. Those are the Korea Kido Assoc (Daehan Kidohae), the IHF and the KHF. These orgs are recognized via the Ministry of Culture and Tourism. Orginally it was the Ministry of Education that controlled this area. Now this is not to say that groups like the recently renamed KHA did not offer fine training. Many think that if they receive a Dan cert from the World Kido group that is has the same prestige and goverment backing (if that matters to you) as one from the Korea Kido Assoc. But it does not, they are not the same. Related yes, but not the same. Or so I understand... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com -- __--__-- _____________________________________________________________ Get a web-based email for life now ---> http://mail.hapkidokr.org _____________________________________________________________ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you@yourchoice.com w/No Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 08:35:53 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] jinx Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> He trained me from White to RedBelt. Now I'm 2Dan and still can't seem to make it happen. Something always goes wrong at quarter finals: Blistered feet becomes unuseable and twice I lose in a keenly contested match. Anyone with suggestions? I fear my students may this carry on. <> Dear Oludipe, Have faith, I lost so many matches when I started competition, the guys that rode with me started calling me the bus driver :-) After about two years of that I finally took a first place in sparring. I even had my picture made with Kim Du Trin with my trophy. But then I would go to events and completely butcher my form, which would make me mad enough to beat everyone in a karate uniform at sparring, so on with another year of loosing in forms and winning in sparring. Finally I took a first in sparring and 4th in forms as a black belt. What I do now is make sure I'm OVERPREPARED for the type event and rules. With this formula I have also had the honor of coaching about 10 national champions and several dozen regional champions. I wouldn't worry about your jinx carrying on with your students. Just keep training and teaching quality martial arts. Train with jung do in your heart The rest is commentary, Charles Richards Moja Kwan Tang Soo Do __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Korea Kido Hae and the World Kido ? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 08:49:14 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I wonder about the past October in Korea there was a meeting with many > Masters and Grand Masters in wich at the end Grand Master Ji, HanJae was > elected the president. Can you mailly, Ray, tell us qhat do you know about > or anyone else that knows about this subject ? Another HKD org, a Worldwide HKD org, is being formed in S. Korea with Gm Ji at its head. Not sure exactly how long it will take before things are completely pulled together. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Kidohae Question To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 09:13:38 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I was reading the English version of the Korea Kido Association and I > noticed that Grandmaster Yeong Keun Lee is listed as their president. > > What is the current position of Grandmaster Seo? I was reading the ad in > the January issue of TKD Times and it has him listed as their > chairman/president. I believe that Gm Seo is the Chairman while Gm Lee is the President. Plus, I believe that Gm Seo is down in Busan while Gm Lee is at the Kidohae's headquarters in Seoul. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Warrior Spirit Martial Arts" To: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 07:18:10 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Staffs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Since we are on the topic of Staffs I was wondering if anyone on the digest knows where I can get raw rattan staffs, not the generic supplier brand I'm looking for the one's that can take a beating without splitting or becoming mush, the kind that sparks and smells like sulphur, if you know what I'm talking about you probably have what I'm looking for. Any Information you can provide will be greatly appreciated Travis and Sandra Borneman Warrior Spirit Martial Arts http://www3.telus.net/WarriorSpirit/ warriorspirit@telus.net --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 11:49:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Golden Gate Open Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Received in the mail... Golden Gate Open 2003 Taekwondo Tournament Saturday January 25, 2003 Sonoma State University 1801 East Cotati Ave, Rohnert Park, CA 94928 Admission $7 for adults, $5 for children, 5 yrs and under in free http://www.ubba.org Hosted by Jea S. Kim --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 14:20:50 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Warm_Wishes_to_Everyone?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Charles: "...... How have you been, and how was your holidays?....." Remember that old joke that goes ".....other than THAT, Mrs Lincoln; how did you like the theatre?"...? That pretty much sums up things in the recent 6 months. The difference has been that I have had the benefit of knowing that the individual cited in the complaint about me to the Office of the Inspector General of VA was a Korean who could not read, write or speak English. What that suggests is somebody used the DOJANG DIGEST to strike back in a personal way against me. I also have had occasion to read the recent interview with GM Ji in the TKD TIMES. And, between these two events I have very neatly had my many questions about why the Hapkido arts are in the state they are answered. Apples never fall very far from the tree, and while I have often mused loudly about why certain Korean nationals could not work together I have had these wonderings resolved. I know people on the Net have often taken TKD TIMES to task on various occasions. However, the next time someone wants to know why "...can't we all just get along..(?)" I will take the time to cite Ji's Interview, right up there with Gen Chois' and GM Lee Joo Bang. Thanks for the welcome back. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 12:47:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:_Warm_Wishes_to_Everyone Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > wants to know why "...can't we all just get along..(?)" I will take the > time to cite Ji's Interview, right up there with Gen Chois' and GM Lee Joo > Bang. Bruce, You recently missed a rather long discussion on this topic while you were unsubed. It appears that the interview with Gm Ji that was published in the recent issue of TKDT was not even close to being right. The pictures included were possibly the only part of the article that was accurate... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 18:23:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] more ITF news Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Minutes of Information meeting held at Junior Worlds 20 December 2002 MINUTES OF THE ITF INFORMATION MEETING HELD DURING THE 6th JUNIOR WORLD CHAMPTIONSHIP IN PUERTO RICO DECEMBER 8th, 2002 During the 6th Junior World Championship in Ponce, Puerto Rico, we had several requests for information about recent rumors and events that involved the governance and the future of ITF. Since there was nearly 30 countries present at the championship, ITF president and Senior members decided to hold an information meeting of the black belts, including delegation chiefs, coaches, umpires and other adult black belts, at the Sport Stadium of the University of Puerto Rico in Ponce from 1h30 p.m. to 3h30 on December 8th, 2002. As President of the Panamerican Continental Taekwon-Do Federation (ITF) and Chairman of the ITF Tournament Committee, Master Tran Trieu Quan opened the meeting by greeting those present and explaining to them why a meeting had been called. The following is a summary of what he said: Dear ITF members : Many lies and half truths have been disseminated by North Koreans organization through fax, letters, e-mail, web sites and so on since the death of General Choi. My goal today is to present to you facts and testimonies from individuals who were present at various recent important events to allow you find out about the TRUTH and to know exactly what Mr. Chang Ung and his group have done to deceive you. It is most important that you be correctly informed. It is in your interest and that of ITF. Then, Master Tran invited Mr. Clint Norman, who is President of the Canadian Taekwon-Do Federation International (CTFI), to give his account of the situation that transpired at the 100th day General Chois memorial held in North Korea, which he attended. The following is a summary of what Mr. Norman said at the meeting in Puerto Rico : Dear ITF Members, First of all, I want you to know that I am in my third term as President of the Canadian Taekwon-Do Federation International and that I have nothing to gain from what I am going to say because I am not a member of the ITF Board of Directors. Second, I would like to make it clear that the only purpose of my trip to Korea was attend General Choi Hong His 100th day memorial. I had no previous knowledge of any Special Congress and secondly had no mandate to officially express any the views on behalf of the CTFI membership. While in Korea my translator and one of the North Korean Masters approached me before the memorial and asked me to sign a request for a Special meeting of Congress. I refused stating my only business was to attend General Chois Memorial. All the other countries were also approached. They were quite persistent; I did not change my decision. On the day of General Chois memorial, we were transported to the sight of General Chois grave. After a short period of time we were taken to the Taekwon-Do Palace where we were shown a video of General Chois funeral. A very large sign was hung on the wall, which stated General Choi Hong Hi 100th day Memorial. After the video of General Choi funeral we were taken to the next room for some refreshments. As I was walking back to the bus to return to the hotel, I was requested to return to the main conference room for a Special meeting of Congress. I was very surprised to see that the General Chois memorial sign had been replaced with a new sign which said, Special Meeting of Congress, how could the North Koreans know before hand that there would be meeting. Grand Master Rhee Ki Ha conducted the meeting. All of the people present were given headsets for translation, as it was all spoken in Korean. Master Leong Wai Meng spoke on behalf of the Consultative Council, mentioning that this meeting did not follow the ITF constitution. During the translation when Mr. Chang Ung, walked into the room my translation stopped during that crucial moment. I thought that GM Rhee was introducing him as we all stood up and welcomed him by clapping. I had no idea he was proposing him as the new President of ITF. There was no vote held, as proper procedure was not observed in such an important decision. In my view, the people that attended General Chois memorial came for that reason, and did not officially represent their countries. I am one of the official representatives for the CTFI and understand my responsibilities to our membership. This is why I did not voice an opinion on behalf of the Canadian Federation without consulting the CTFI executive first. It was also brought to my attention that North Korea paid all the other Countries flights. For the record, Korea did not pay my flight. After Mr. Norman had presented his account of what had actually happened in Pyongyang, Master Tran mentioned that he had been invited twice in writing by Mr. Chang Ung to attend a so-called Board of Directors meeting in Vienna last November. Mr. Chang even went as far as offering to pay for his travel expenses. Master Tran reported that he had refused to attend the meeting in question because he did not recognize Mr. Chang Ungs legal status as President and considered his meeting as illegal. Instead, he chose to go to Italy to discuss the cooperation between the European Federation and Panam and to initiate seminars in Italy. Master Rivera, however, had attended the mid-November meeting in Vienna and, consequently, Master Tran invited him to present his account of what had happened at the meeting. The following is a summary of what Master Rivera said about the mid-November meeting in Vienna : Dear ITF members : At the beginning of the meeting in Vienna on November 16, those present who were in agreement with the decision made in Pyongyang about having Mr. Chang Ung as President of ITF were asked to raise their hand, I abstained from voting. So Grand Master Rhee Ki Ha said : You disgust me. You should leave the room. You say you love General Choi but you do not respect his wishes. So after I stood up, I responded to Grand Master Rhee Ki Ha and I told him that I was there for another purpose and I asked Mr. Chang Ung if I could stay at the meeting. He said Yes. Then, I sat down. Mr. Chang Ung introduced himself. He said that he owns many businesses, restaurants and hotels, and that he gave them up because the President [I understood that he meant the President of the D.P.R. of Korea] asked him to replace General Choi to lead ITF. Later, Mr. Jong Jae Hun, Chairman of the Korean TKD Committee, proposed to hold the next Senior World Championship in Pyongyang and that the Korean Association cover the expenses for the competitors who would participate in the tournament. Mr. Chang Ung welcomed the proposal. I took a strong stand against it because the ITF Congress in Rimini, Italy had already decided to have it in Warsaw and that such a decision could not be changed without the Congress consent. They said : Well see. After I left Vienna, I had the opportunity to read the minutes of their meeting. Then, I learned that they had decided any way to have the World Championship in Pyongyang at about the same time as the World Championship in Warsaw. After Master Riveras account, Master Tran made the following comments : Mr. Chang Ungs declaration confirms the firm intent of the North Korean communist government to control ITF at its highest level. It is quite clear that they are motivated by political ambition, not by carrying out General Chois wishes. The so-called Special Congress vioalates the ITF constitution and the ITF Congress. Once more, the decision to move the next Championship from Warsaw to Pyongyang shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that Mr. Chang Ung and his followers have no respect for the constitution and the ITF Congress. By doing so, they also refuse to submit themselves to the election process that is to take place in Warsaw next June. Some letters written by members of Mr. Chang Ungs group have led people to believe that Mr. Russell MacLellan had step down as President of ITF to allow Mr. Chang Ung to preside over the affairs of ITF. To set the record straight, Master Tran invited Mr. MacLellan to speak. The following is a summary of what Mr. MacLellan said at the information meeting in Puerto Rico : Dear ITF Members : I do not know why General Choi asked me to be Senior Vice President in January, 2002. I do know that General Choi knew the ITF constitution and that if anything happened to him and he was unable to act, I would succeed him as President. General Choi always believed in duly elected officers of the ITF. He himself stood for election every six years. He also must have known in January 2002 that he was not well, because many of us knew it in February 2002. We must follow the constitution. If we do not with respect to choosing a President, how can any member of the ITF feel safe that he or she can depend on constitutional support if the need arises. I do not object to Mr. Chang Ung being president of the ITF but I do insist that he, or anyone else, be elected president democratically. In mid November, 2002, I went to Vienna to meet with Mr. Chang Ung. He had called a so-called Board of Directors' meeting for the ITF. The meeting was illegal and I did not attend. Nevertheless, I met twice with Mr. Chang Ung with the hope that we would co-operate in leading the ITF until the elections in June in Warsaw. In honour of the memory of General Choi and the concern of Mrs. Choi, I hoped something could be done. I told Mr. Chang Ung that I was President by the constitution and that nothing could change that. I also told him that I could step back and let him administer the ITF pending the congress in Warsaw, but that I had to be satisfied with certain pre-conditions. During my two meetings with Mr. Chang Ung, I was not told that, during his illegal Board of Directors meeting, the people present, at his urging, had relieved Mr. Tom MacCallum of the position of Secretary General and that they had moved the World Championship in June from Poland to North Korea. The latter could not be done even by a legal Board of Directors' meeting ( which this was not) because it was a decision of the Congress. Mr. Chang Ung has now made it impossible for himself to be elected president in Warsaw because he is heading another group which will be having their World Championship in North Korea. He cannot now be democratically elected president, so any effort to reconcile him with the ITF would be a waste of time. We will move on in the ITF without Mr. Chang Ung and North Korea and any other members who wish to join him. We, in the ITF, will continue with making our organization in the ITF completely democratic and free from political interference. None of us are General Choi and our present constitution was passed in 1988. To address the facts that General Choi is no longer with us, a new constitution will be presented to the members for their consideration before being presented to the Congress members in Warsaw for their acceptance. Prior to the congress in Warsaw, we will have at least one official international seminar in each continent, if the members want it, and promotions will continue on a regular basis. Each of you must decide with whom you wish to be associated the legal ITF or Mr. Chang Ung. From this point forward, it must be one or the other. At the end of his speech, Mr. MacLellan announced that four new members had been nominated to serve on the Consultative Council to replace those who had defected ITF. He went on to announce that the members of the new temporary ITF Consultative Council were: Master Tran Trieu Quan, 8th degree, Canada Master Benny Rivera, 8th degree, Puerto Rico Master Pablo Trajtenberg, 8th degree, Argentina Master Willem Bos, 7th degree, Italy Master Paul Weiler, 7th degree, Germany Master Earl Weiss, 7th degree, USA The Council will work on preparing the next Congress and developing a new constitution that will be submitted for adoption at the next Congress in Warsaw, Poland. The North Koreans have tried to discredit Master Tom MacCallum, Secretary General of ITF. Accordingly, Master MacCallum was giving the opportunity to respond to these accusations. The following is a summary of what he said at the information meeting in Puerto Rico : Dear ITF members: We are legally registered in Austria and we are working through our lawyer but the fact is that it takes time. The North Koreans are taking advantage of that. It was perfectly obvious some time ago that the present situation would arise. While in Pyongyang, an unconstitutional and illegal meeting was held. How can the tenets of TKD and the constitution be so abused? In Canada at a meeting called by the President, Russell MacLellan, various people met to discuss the future. The President of the ITF, the Secretary General, the Chairman of the Consultative Council, and many others among the senior ITF masters expressed a concern about the ITF funds. I was authorised to find a way to secure the money. When I consulted with the bank manager it was found that any account opened in the name of the ITF could be accessed by any of the authorised people of the ITF (North Korean treasurer). I decided to open the account in the name of Master MacCallum. I withdrew $US60,000.00 and put it in another account. As Secretary General, I took a computer and printer to my home so that I could print out certificates which the treasurer refused to print. There was no intent to keep these items. This was notified to the ITF President, the ITF lawyer, and various other ITF officials. Following a meeting between the treasurer and the Secretary General, in the presence of their lawyers, it was agreed that the items be returned and the North Koreans would return the stamps of the ITF and would not interfere with the work of the ITF. The money, computer and printer were returned on the Monday morning by the Secretary General but the North Koreans did not return the stamps. The police had been called in twice by the Secretary General when he was assaulted by the North Koreans. They did not keep their part of the bargain and prevented the secretary general from doing the ITF business. Once again, we ask you to send all mail, certificate applications and payments to the Secretary General at address Brunner Strasse 190/2/16, 1210 Vienna, AUSTRIA, Fax:+43 1 2941752 or E-mail t.mac@chello.at. We guarantee the service which you are entitled to without interference and it has been approved by our President. Several people expressed their belief in Master MacCallums integrity and loyalty to ITF. It was proposed that the accusations were made to distract us from the mistakes that Mr. Chang Ung and his followers have made in Pyongyang and Vienna. Master Rivera thanked everyone for their presentation and invited questions from those who were present at the meeting. The question period lasted about 30 minutes. In closing, the need to work together positively and constructively for the future instead of wasting time with reacting to lies and deceptions was strongly highlighted. It was emphasized that the true ITF organization is the one that respects the philosophy of Taekwon-Do, that is the one that behaves in a way that is consistent with FREEDOM, JUSTICE and PEACE. Mr. Chang Ung as a North Korean communist official and his followers are not in a good position to give us any lesson about these human values. It is time for us all to apply the last tenet of Taekwon-Do, INDOMITABLE SPIRIT, to preserve our values and our organization. At the end of the meeting, several individuals expressed their satisfaction with the information presented. Anyone who have comments or questions is invited to contact either the ITF Headquarter if it has to do with administration or the Consultative Council if it has to do with other matters. The person to contact at the Headquarter is Master Tom MacCallum, Secretary General (t.mac@chello.at). The person to contact at the Consultative Council is master Benny Rivera (termas1@hotmail.com). --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest