Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 15:00:05 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #6 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Kwang Sik Myung (Beungood@aol.com) 2. Sport TKD Calendar (Ray Terry) 3. Re: more ITF news (Dave Steffen) 4. Tae Kwon Do Won (Laurie S.) 5. Re: Re: more ITF news (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:09:37 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Kwang Sik Myung Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 1/7/03 7:00:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > The website as well as the newsletter have been sporadic and of poor > quality owing to inadequate oversight. From what I understand GM Myung has > been having some pretty nasty health problems and What type of health problems is he having? --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang), policedo@martialartsresource.net (Policedo) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 06:39:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Sport TKD Calendar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The_Dojang's calendar of Sport Taekwondo Events Jan 7, 2003 http://MartialArtsResource.com http://the-dojang.net Dates and locations subject to change. 2003 Australian Olympic Youth Festival Jan 8-12 Sydney, Australia Spainish Juniors Jan 11 Fuengirola, Spain NC AAU Winter Tourny Jan 18 Fayetteville, N. Carolina AAU Junior Olympic Quals Jan 18 Waldorf, Maryland Absolute Madrid Jan 18 Navalcarnero, Spain Master Choi Cup Down Under Jan 19 Melbourne, Australia 1st International Tabasco Open Jan 24-25 Tabasco, Mexico Indiana Open Jan 24-25 Indianapolis, Indiana Golden Gate Open Jan 25 Rohnert Park, California AAU Spar Wars Jan 25 Marietta, Georgia AAU Winter Classic Jan 25 Kerman, California 1st Incas Open Jan 31-Feb 2 Lima, Peru AAU Arizona Quals Feb 1 Yuma, Arizona Red Scorpion Invitational Feb 1 Cypress, California 11th American Eagle Classic Feb 1 Aurora, Colorado US tryouts for ITF World Champs Feb 1-2 South Windsor, Connecticut ITF French Open Feb 1-2 Thonon-les-Bains, France TKD Festival Feb 8 Eagle Rock, California ITF Maestas Team Challenge Feb 8 Arvada, Colorado Absolute Spain Feb 8 Barcelona, Spain US Open Feb 19-23 Las Vegas, Nevada Sonoma State Open Feb 22 Sonoma, California Int Flor Pokal Open Feb 22-23 Elmshorn, Germany 14th European Juniors Feb 28-Mar 2 Athens, Greece Arnold World MA Games Feb 28-Mar 2 Columbus, Ohio 5th Scottish Open Feb Glasgow, Scotland AAU Michigan Quals March 1 Mt. Pleasant, Michigan ITF German Open March 1-2 Dortmund, Germany AAU NC Quals March 8 Fayetteville, N.Carolina California Seniors March 15 Dominguez, California Indy Cup March 15 Indianapolis, Indiana St. Patrick's Day Forms Classic March 15 Middletown, Ohio 1st Paris Open March 15-16 Paris, France ITF Finland Open March 15-16 Tampere, Findland ITF Intl FITE Open March 22 Madrid, Spain ITF Nova Scotia Open March 22 Halifax, Nova Scotia 1st Technical Paris Open March 22-23 Paris, France ITF Viking Cup March 22-23 Skvode, Sweden Zagreb Open March 22-23 Zabreb, Croatia Northern Calif Jr. Olympic TKD March 29 San Jose, California AAU Georgia Qualifier March 29 Smryna, Georgia AAU South Texas Quals March 29 San Antonio, Texas Dutch Open March 29-30 Eindhoven, Netherlands 2nd Pan Am Junior March Rio de Janeiro, Brazil South Carolina State Champs March Rock Hill, S. Carolina PA Senior and Junior Champs April 4-5 ?, Pennsylvannia AAU Calif State Champs April 5 San Francisco, California Central Scottish TKD Cup April 6 Grangemouth, Scotland ITF European Champs April 10-13 Rijeka, Croatia Canadian TKD Champs April 11-13 Mont-Tremblant, Quebec AAU New England Quals April 12 Orleans, Vermont Ahn Taekwondo Classic April 26 West Chester, Ohio German Open April 26-27 Bonn, Germany 4th TKD Masters Cup April 26-27 Geleen, Netherlands AAU New Jersey State Champs April 27 Rockaway, New Jersey ITF North American Champs April Ottawa, Canada AAU Ohio Champs April Columbus, Ohio So Calif Jr. Olympic TKD May 3-4 Westwood, UCLA, California AAU Nevada Quals May 10 ?, Nevada Dr. Un Yong Kim TKD Champs May 11-18 Colorado Springs, Colorado 7th Intl Luxembourg Open May 18 Steinfort, Luxembourg 29th US National TKD Champs May 21-25 New Orleans, Louisana Danish Int Poomsae Champs May 24 Kolding, Denmark ITF PROTAE Puerto Rico Open May 25 Arecibo & Lares, Puerto Rico 1st Moja Kwan Invitational June 7 Roswell, Georgia ITF North American Champs June 7 Ottawa, Canada ITF World Champs June 9-15 Pyongyang, North Korea 13th World ITF Seniors June 12-15 Warsaw, Poland ITF Chi Cup Open June 14 Punto Fijo, Venezuela ITF NAG German Open June 21-22 Wetzlar, Germany 2nd Asia Junior Champs June 27-29 HoChiMinh City, Vietnam Canadian Juniors June 27-30 Winnipeg, Manitoba 12th South Pacific Games June 28-July 12 Suva, Fiji USTU Junior Nationals June 29-July 5 Orlando, Florida European Technical Champs June Bastia, France AAU Nationals July 2-5 Knoxville, Tennessee South Pacific Games July 7-10 Suva, Fiji AAU Junior Olympic Games July 27-Aug 1 Detroit, Michigan Battle of Indianapolis Aug 8-9 Indianapolis, Indiana 14th Pan American Games Aug 13-16 Santo Domingo, Dominican Rep 22nd World University Games Aug 22-26 Taegu, Korea USTU National Team Trials Aug 24-25 Colorado Springs, Colorado 3rd World Military Games Aug-Sept Madrid, Spain President Cup TKD Sept 20 Anaheim, California 9th Women's World TKD Champs Sept 24-28 Garmisch, Germany 16th World TKD Champs Sept 24-28 Garmisch, Germany ITF World Seniors Sept 25-28 Las Vegas, Nevada Swedish Open Oct 4-5 Malmo, Sweden Nigeria 8th All Africa Games Oct 11-15 Abuja, Nigeria 2nd PATU Juniors Oct 15-18 Rio de Janeiro, Brazil ITF Open Champs Oct 25-26 Auckland, New Zealand Erie Cup Champs Nov 2 Erie, Pennsylvannia ITF Italian Open Nov Riccone, Italy World Quals for Athens Dec 2-5 Paris, France 22nd SouthEast Asian Games Dec 7-10 HoChiMinh City, Vietnam Olympic Games TKD Test Event Dec-Feb Athens, Greece 8th African Champs or early 2004 Accra, Ghana 11th Pan Arab Games TBD Algiers, Algeria 2004 European Champs for Teams Feb Grenoble, France Pan American Quals Feb Miami, Florida Olympic Test Event March 12-14 Athens, Greece 13th Women's European Senior TKD May 4-9 Lillehammer, Norway 15th European Senior TKD Champs May 4-9 Lillehammer, Norway 8th World University Champs June 1-3 Patra, Greece 2004 Olympic Games Aug 26-29 Athens, Greece Canadian Juniors TBD Dartmouth, Nova Sciotia 2005 4th East Asian Games TBD Macao, China ITF Senior World Champs TBD Uzbekistan 23rd Universiade July 16-26 Izmir, Turkey 2006 15th Asian Games Dec 11-14 Doha, Qatar Please submit updates and corrections. Ray Terry California Taekwondo and Hapkido http://MartialArtsResource.com The_Dojang, the Internet's discussion forum for Korean Martial Arts http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Dave Steffen Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:35:13 -0700 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: more ITF news Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > From: "Dana Vaillancourt" > Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 17:38:08 +0000 > Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: more ITF news > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > I continue to be amazed by what is going on in the ITF(s). When > Gen. Choi and his son first had their disagreement, I was sad to > see an organization come between a father and son. But this > convoluted mess of three ITFs, people breaking off everywhere, > etc. is fairly disgusting to me. I don't know how "disgusted" I am, but it's certainly upsetting and dissapointing. I suppose a certain amount of this was inevitable; the death of the General was bound to lead to some political upheavals. However, the current situation is getting ridiculous. As you read these open letters from each organization, keep in mind that there are always three sides to every story: yours, mine, and the truth. It's very hard for those who are just reading what's on the internet to know what the truth is (or, even, which side a given story is being told from). That being the case, it's useful to look a little closer at what each side is _doing_. Axiom: "When action and speech disagree, believe action." For example, I find it interesting (and amusing) that the "Vienna ITF" (i.e. Masters MacLellan, McCallum, et. al.) put Grand Masters Rhee, Hwang, and Park on "diciplinary suspension". (For those who aren't ITFers: those are _all_ of the ITF Grand Masters, except for GM Seriff, who left the ITF in October.) How does one dicipline a Grand Master? ;-) This points out an interesting conflict between "Organization" and "Art". In the martial arts, if a Grand Master says "do", you do - period, end of story. In an organization (a democratic one, that is), the President says "do", and... everyone votes on it. ;-) I suspect at least part of what's going on right now is friction between these two aspects of the ITF as a "Martial Art Organization". Personally, I trust Grand Master Hwang; he's never been anything but completely straight forward and honest with us. He's in the "Mr. Chang Ung" camp, which I suppose could be called the "North Korean" group. > Especially at a time, supposedly, when a merger of the ITF and WTF > could be possible. Yeah - interesting that it's the "North Korean" group that's pusing that. > I hate to say this, but it seems that the intent behind forming the > WTF as a unified organization separate from different Kwan > personalities may have been a wise move for organizational > longevity. I find it hard to believe the ITF can weather this > schism. The difference, IMHO, is that the WTF does not represent or promote a specific martial art; it represents and promotes a specific form of martial art competition. The ITF very definitely represents and promotes a very specific martial art. There's a huge difference. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Steffen, IV Dan ITF Wave after wave will flow with the tide Dept. of Physics And bury the world as it does Colorado State University Tide after tide will flow and recede steffend@lamar.colostate.edu Leaving life to go on as it was... - Peart / RUSH "The reason that our people suffer in this way.... is that our ancestors failed to rule wisely". -General Choi, Hong Hi --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Laurie S." To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 14:24:36 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Tae Kwon Do Won Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hiya all. I have a question for the Digest members (a couple actually). Anyways, I've been hunting for a new dojang (I found out quickly that my dojang is a "McDojang"). I did find one and I learned a lot about it. They are a member of the Tae Kwon Do Won ( http://www.ustw.org/ ). They say that they do Tae Kwon Do Moo Duk Kwan. Which is true. I asked one of the black belts. They do TSD forms after black belt like Bassai, Nihanchi (sp?), ect. But they do WTF forms before black belt. The master said the reason for this is, that his master (I forget his name off hand) was one of Hwang Kee's original students before he made the "switch" (At the time when TSD and TKD went their own ways) to TKD. So he uses the WTF forms under BB, then does the Moo Duk Kwan forms after BB. Is this narmal in some TKD dojangs? Is anyone here a memeber of the Tae Kwon Do Won? Thanks in advance Laurie _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: more ITF news To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:05:47 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > I hate to say this, but it seems that the intent behind forming the > > WTF as a unified organization separate from different Kwan > > personalities may have been a wise move for organizational > > longevity. I find it hard to believe the ITF can weather this > > schism. > > The difference, IMHO, is that the WTF does not represent or promote > a specific martial art; it represents and promotes a specific form > of martial art competition. The ITF very definitely represents and > promotes a very specific martial art. There's a huge difference. I guess this is correct. The Kukkiwon is the org that promotes a specific martial art, Kukki-Taekwondo. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest