Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 03:01:53 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #20 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Flexibility Form (S. H. WEE) 2. Re: Adaptability and counters in the martial arts (SyksRep006@cs.com) 3. Cross-Training & Realism (FirstPe315@aol.com) 4. Re: Korean Taichi (Klaas Barends) 5. martial artists against violence? (harmonywushu@juno.com) 6. Korean t'ae geuk and sunmudo (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 7. Korean Tai Chi (Randall Sexton) 8. Weight Loss vs Athletic Improvement (Khalkee@netscape.net) 9. Tae Geuk (Khalkee@netscape.net) 10. RE:Korean "Tai Chi" (Jonathan Payne) 11. RE: Korean "Tai Chi" (Jason E. Thomas (Y!)) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "S. H. WEE" To: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:39:27 +0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Flexibility Form Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This could be one of the Shaolin's basic foundation form, "Donzigong". It is a yoga-like form used to improve your flexibility. However, unless you are very flexible, it is not much use for those above 16-years old. Try the Wushu guys, some of them still teach this to the children's class. S. H. Wee shinhoe@pc.jaring.my > Message: 10 > From: "Stovall, Craig" > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:43:47 -0600 > Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Flexibility Form > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > James wrote, > > << network (I think it was the Discovery Channel) about martial > arts. As part > of their discussion, they mentioned chinese weapons forms, the "death > touch", and a flexibility form, as well as several other things. > I want to > find some info about this flexibility form. They had a woman > demonstrating > at least part of the form and mentioned that it took several years to > master.>>> > > I vaguely remember seeing a similar segment from a documentary on the > Discovery Channel. If I recall correctly, she was a student of > Pan Quingfu. > You may know him as the guy from Mark Salzman's "Iron and Silk". So, I > would do a search for Pan Quingfu, and if that doesn't work I'd check into > Wushu since I believe that's his background. This form that > you're looking > for may be a high level form within Wushu. Hope this helps. Good luck. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: SyksRep006@cs.com Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 23:47:14 EST Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Adaptability and counters in the martial arts To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net adam you make a very valid point on the all martial artists should be able to block or counter anything that they might encounter in the street. just knowing that info could help in your tournament fighting in the defence area BTW: there is an open martial arts tournament in Oklahoma city the 25th of this month. all styles are welcome to compete the number for tickets and info is 918-602-2444 --__--__-- Message: 3 From: FirstPe315@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 01:20:09 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Cross-Training & Realism Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 1/13/2003 2:16:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > The > low-hanging fruit (so to speak) is to prepare your self defense scenarios > to > deal with a larger, stronger attacker using bum-rush and brute force > techniques (IMHO). JW - I may not be a graybeard (yet) but I would disagree with that statement. Your statement was very humble so I'll try to be the same. My instructor, a man of great experience and ability teaches his students (and I have found this true in my training and my training of others) that you train to deal with the top 1% of martial-artists. (No jokes about the .99 and up please.....you get my drift). The reason being is simple. If you train yourself to deal with the best and most skilled opponents, then everybody who falls under this shouldn't be much of a problem. If you technically perfect the "little things" then an individual "bum-rushing" you or the "weekend warrior" or "undisciplined fighter" or "black-belt mill individual" should be proxy be easy to deal with. If you ONLY train for "typical" situations, then the elite warrior (who may not be as evolved as you would like to think) will defeat you and you loose. And in this one case, loosing may be not a good thing. IMHO, that is why we train the specifics with advanced meaning and why we learn why our toes pointed at 35o instead of 45o changes the angle of our throw and our power etc........yadayadayada. I think you know where I'm going. Typical scenarios should definitely be practiced, perhaps in some peoples opinion more than anything else, but I would hazard to say that you won't find a truly skilled warrior who doesn't practice things, drills, scenarios and the such that, to the "typical" practitioner, would look like a waste of time. The true warrior knows different. J --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:08:53 +0100 From: Klaas Barends To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Korean Taichi Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Quit a few Chinese moved to Korea at one point in history. Besides delicious chachangmyon (please post the recipe :-) ) they also introduced Chinese martial arts. Like taichi, bagua etc. I guess Koreans always tend to 'Koreanify' anything they learn from abroad. So you're never sure wether or not something is Korean or 'foreign'. If what you saw was taichi or a Korean martial art, I do not know (I never saw the episode of globetrekker) -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:18:02 GMT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: harmonywushu@juno.com Subject: [The_Dojang] martial artists against violence? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey gang. I just started up a group with Yahoo, dedicated to martial artists who want to take a leadership role in violence prevention. The idea is for it to be a place to discuss ideas, events etc. you can sub#scribe to it by sending a message to martialartistsagainstviolence-subscribe@yahoo.com. Thanks Peter ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:08:02 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean t'ae geuk and sunmudo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sally, as Ray stated, in Korea taiji is practices as t'ae geuk. But there are MANY soft arts in Korea that are similar to taiji. One of the most popular of these arts is sunmudo, which means Zen martial art. I learned taiji in college and have been practicing it and teaching it ever since. I have also attended taiji classes in China and the Korean sister arts I practiced in Korea are notably different. Specifically, I noted the addition of taekkyon style kicking and harder punching than taiji. Several of the photos on my web page at http://www.hapkidoselfdefense.com/photos_2.htm are of the sunmudo temple. Monk Jin Mook is the head of the sunmudo temple. Taiji class photos from China can be found at http://www.hapkidoselfdefense.com/photos_3.htm. I would say that sunmudo is related to Buldomusul (Buddhist martial arts). There are many other temples and dojang in Korea that practice soft martial arts, but sunmudo is one of the few that has recently made its way to the US and spread throughout Korea. They even have a website at www.sunmudo.net. Master Han, president of the World Hapkido Games Federation in Seoul teaches t'ae geuk and he used to have mpg files on his website but I have not visited it for a while. Why do we not have a lot of it around? I teach taiji in the mornings at the dojang and at the YMCA. I can tell you from experience that young people (under 30) in the US are not interested, I would further guess that is because it does not provide instant results like such arts as taekwondo. I am 43 and one of the youngest in my taiji classes. The basic motion is completely different than most martial arts around today. I have hapkido students who travel over an hour away to practice hapkido in the evenings and they pass dozens of taekwondo and karate schools to get to the dojang as we are not involved in competition and they come to learn hapkido for self defense purposes, but if I taught taiji in the evenings, the rent would NOT get paid. The way it was explained to me in China is that they look at the martial arts as 3 different types: health arts, such as taiji and t'ae geuk; sport arts that are aggressive in nature and are practices through competition; and self defense arts that are defensive in nature. Sport arts are the most common, self defense arts are next and health arts are the least popular. AS Ray pointed out there are many styles (or families) of taiji. For example, in taijichuan, the fist is held loosely, open enough so that a pencil can be placed through the opening. I did not see the program you mentioned but I will keep an eye out on the PBS listings. Jere R. Hilland www.hapkidoselfdefense.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Randall Sexton" To: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 05:41:06 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean Tai Chi Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net There is a Korean Tai Chi school in Austin. I saw the instructor once and he looked pretty smooth. Here's the link: http://home.austin.rr.com/cobalis/index.html Randall Sexton www.LaughingHara.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:44:59 -0500 From: Khalkee@netscape.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Weight Loss vs Athletic Improvement Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A suggestion to those who approach competition with thoughts of improving ability by losing weight. A focus shift: if the intention is to improve athletic ability (fighting ability) then the focus should be on improving all attributes which support improvement of that ability, not losing weight. The rational path to improving kicking is, for example, not making the leg lighter but making all of the supporting and involved muscles stronger. The logic is obvious ... the requirement is analysis of what holds us back from better performance, and applying appropriate remedies in the way of strength, technical attributes, etc. Evasion, for example, requires strong, coordinated, fast leg action. Hey, it also requires a strong torso so that the body doesn't flop around when you move so fast!:-) So, my humble suggestion is ... step back and reevaluate so as to determine what really needs to be done to improve/succeed. Losing weight does not increase skill. Refining attributes, incl. strength, supports increased skill. Need to be faster? Train what it takes to develop speed (strength underlies it). Need better evasion? Train mobility. Weight loss might happen along the way!;-) Alternatively, weight may stabilize with the stronger, more capable you. __________________________________________________________________ The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:59:23 -0500 From: Khalkee@netscape.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Tae Geuk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yah, Chen style is one Tai Chi Chuan system that never got spun into cotton candy by the New Age movement :-) Chen Family Tai Chi Chuan maintains its martial orientation. The others do as well (Yang, Wu, etc.), all depends on the instructor. I've worked Tai Chi with both Chinese and Korean teachers ... no diff. Tai Chi = Tae Geuk. People often misinterpret Tai Chi Chuan because they haven't had enuf exposure to it as a fighting system. There are slow exercises, fast exercises, solo exercises and paired (fighting) exercises. These include striking, kicking, joint locking, throwing, and weapons. Hey, a punch IsA punch, a kick IsA kick, and a cut IsA cut. __________________________________________________________________ The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Jonathan Payne" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE:[The_Dojang] Korean "Tai Chi" Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:54:49 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Grandmaster Yi Won Ik of Austin TX teaches Tukong Moosul. The Korean "Tai Chi" he teaches is called Ip Sun. He also teaches Sorim Kwon Bup. Yours in KMA, Jon Payne _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Jason E. Thomas \(Y!\)" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Korean "Tai Chi" Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 19:30:40 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Tu Kong is very prevalent here in Austin. Does anyone know anything about this style? Do they use forms if so which? Are there schools elsewhere? I've never seen it before... Regards, Jason > -----Original Message----- > From: Jonathan Payne [mailto:payne1032@hotmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 2:55 PM > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: RE:[The_Dojang] Korean "Tai Chi" > > Grandmaster Yi Won Ik of Austin TX teaches Tukong Moosul. The Korean "Tai > Chi" he teaches is called Ip Sun. He also teaches Sorim Kwon Bup. > > Yours in KMA, > Jon Payne > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest