Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:25:03 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #23 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Learning_Basics?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 2. training for the elite...and such. (tntcombatives@attbi.com) 3. Re: Basic principles (Klaas Barends) 4. TKD & Weapons training. (Dewitt, Garrett) 5. Re: carbonecho (Robert Martin) 6. Re: Re: Basic principles (Ray Terry) 7. re: dinosaur training (Jay Minnix) 8. RE>kuk sool weapons (MW) 9. Living the Martial Way (Dr. Daryl Covington) 10. Dinosaur tossing? (Rudy Timmerman) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 22:26:21 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Learning_Basics?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Adam: "....So what drills or concepts does everyone do to practice or incorporate into their training regimen? Teachers, how do you prevent your classes with your advanced students from being a beginner rote session and encourage students to use the tools that work best for their body type, their innate abilities, or dictated by particular situations? How do you encourage your students and practice partners to be more dynamic and fluid? I realize this is a complicated question, but am curious as to everyone's thoughts and methods for addressing this..." Your question seems to speak to the core of what the relationship between a student and the learning process may be. Why limit what you are asking to Martial Arts? Think about the mechanic who has performed a particular protocol on various auto-s, say, changing oil, or better yet, changing a head gasket. After fifty or sixty or seventy times the whole procedure becomes a kind of ballet. I don't think anyone asks a mechanic "what did you do in class to become so "together" about the way you change that gasket". Nor can you lay all of the pressure on the teacher to make the class interesting to the students. Having been on both sides of the desks in college classes I know that a teacher can likely make or break a student, but a student can also be his own worst enemy in the same class. Unless a student has identified a true purpose for why they are there the class will mean nothing to the student and there is really nothing the teacher can do about that. How many MA students actually know what it is that they want to be fundamentally different about themselves for having trained in a martial art? By the same token, even the worst teacher won't slow a student who has truely identified their purpose for pursuing a particular course of study. You are asking about drills and methods but I will tell you that the best person a MA student can meet is someone who is as hungry to learn as they are. It may not seem like much to ask for until you find yourself routinely paired with partners who mindlessly move through the motions waiting for osmosis to provide what they can't seem to find in purpose. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 2 From: tntcombatives@attbi.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:33:31 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] training for the elite...and such. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings All, I will jump in here with a few things. Training for the top 1% is a great ideal, and will keep you striving for better methods & techniques. Otherwise, you should just go take a basic self defense course somewhere and be done with it. Most of us know that there is more to training. There are some instances where the advanced complicated technique is the answer to the advanced complicated problem. There are also times when keeping is simple is the best option. Take for example a basic outward wrist lock. HKD/Aikido/JJ folks will flow with the technique as you apply it, and end up rolling out, reversing it, or doing a sometimes overly grandious fall (great for photos though!). Real world application to the everyday criminal who would do you harm can be a bit different. Things like wrists break, elbows twist, and we wont even talk about a breakfall here. I have seen suspects come close to ripping their arms off due to a freakishly painful lock(to them)that they dont know how to respond to. I teach police combatives. I have seen officers that can do some fairly intricate techniques, but lack the ability to move out of the way of an attack because nobody taught them basic footwork & avoidance. Many times, it is the simple things that will be the most effective. A few of you mention the 1%er. The 1% you should be concerned about is not the top 1% of all martial artists, but the 1% of the population who are bona- fide criminals. The difference is the average street criminal is better at finding victims than you are at recognizing criminals. The best trained martial artist can be easily victimized if they do not recognize the situation and have to play a mental game of catch up...so all that time spent training for the top MAist goes out the window even though the physical part of the confrontation has not even begun. The good news is that a very small segment of the population is focused on doing you harm. It is good because they share many of the same characteristics so they can be easily recognized...shrinking your reactionary gap. Several authors have better descriptions than I can make for dirtbag recognition: Peyton Quinn, Marc MacYoung, and our own Alain Burrese for example. Closing food for thought. I have, through full contact scenario training situations & real world out-of-dojang experiences, defeated highly trained police, blackbelts, and well rounded martial artists. I did not do anything fancy, just very aggressive smash and crash type attacks. I have also had my a$$ handed to me by highly trained police, blackbelts, and martial artists who used some excellent advanced techniques. In my experience, the basic stuff always seems to work a bit easier and better...on the mat, or on the street. -- Mark Gajdostik TNT-Police Combatives 503-789-1356 --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:13:37 +0100 From: Klaas Barends To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Basic principles Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Training principles is correct, no problem there. But that alone will > not > prepare you for all attackers and any type of attack. Maybe not even > most attackers and most types of attack. In that case, there is something wrong with the basic principles of your art. That's probably said a little to harsh. There seems to be a little confusion between 'basics' and 'principles'. A punch might be a basic technique, but has little to with basic principles. Principles have to do with overall body movement, flow of ki, etc. From these principles you learn how to execute a punch in the right manner in any given situation. When I hear someone say 'that traditional kicks probably will never be used in real life situation', I know this person never really trained his kicks. I was thaught the following; choose your favorite kick, for the period of at least a year do this kick a thousand times a day every day. See what your kick looks like after your training! It will also give you a lot of insight into the application of other kicks. There are two learning curves. The first one seems easy and you learn a lot of stuff in a short time, but after a while you won't make any progress. The second one is hard, and in the beginning you don't seem to learn a thing. After a long time however you discover there is a lot more you can learn. -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Dewitt, Garrett" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:02:33 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] TKD & Weapons training. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Fred wrote: How can a Tae Kwon Do guy learn and incorporate weapons into his own Dojang. Hello Fred. When I hear or read about someone training in TSD or TKD and they ask such questions, I am quick to give them an initial source to check. Check out the NKMAA website or contact Grandmaster Rudy Timmerman. If you really want to learn martial arts weapons in a "non-political" and extremely knowledgeable environment, this is the place. Best wishes Fred. Master Garrett DeWitt www.btkd.net --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:00:17 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Martin To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: carbonecho Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Carbonecho ran out of money last year. It got caught in the dot com crash. Robert Martin > Message: 1 > From: Tkdsid@aol.com > Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:33:15 EST > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] carbonecho > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Does anyone know what happened to carbonecho.com? > Does anyone know where to > get an accre4dited Ph.D in martial arts? > > S. Rubinfeld --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Basic principles To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:05:20 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > In that case, there is something wrong with the basic principles of > your art. > > That's probably said a little to harsh. > There seems to be a little confusion between 'basics' and 'principles'. Ok, I'll bite. Share with us what principles I can teach my students that will allow them to defeat all of their attackers. Or we can make it simplier and use the example of most of their attackers. Remember that we have never limited this attack situation. It could be against multiple armed attackers. It could be against a single attacker, but outside after dark on a wintery and icy day. Or against multiple attackers in a dark back parking lot of a bar with a surface covered with loose pea gravel, and you've had one too many. My point is that even teaching excellent concepts and principles, and even basics, as the attackee you are not selecting the time/day/situation of the attack. The attacker(s) select that, and sometimes we will all end up having a 'bad day'. If any instructor had a fool proof teaching method for always defending against all/most attackers, the world would beat a path to their door and all/most of the attacks would cease to occur. In the above I am limiting my reply to an unarmed response against armed or unarmed attackers. But I'd rather 'just shoot the bastards'. And I still reserve the right to be wrong... :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:11:13 -0800 (PST) From: Jay Minnix To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] re: dinosaur training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This is a pretty good approach for building functional strength. Will it increase your max bench press? Probably not as quickly as a bench-focused program. However, if you want to be able to move heavy or oddly shaped objects, and want strength that has a good deal of carry-over into daily activities, then it is a good way to go. For most martial artists, it would be a way to improve overall functional strength and explosiveness. The focus on odd shapes, fat bars, heavy weights, etc. will directly help dynamic strength, grip strength, and mat work. Those who already train for these things may not see as much improvement, but the book may still offer more variety that can be used in these workouts. Plus, it's really a lot of fun. Many of these "traditional" stength training approaches are becoming popular again, like kettlebell training, dynamic lifts (like the olympic lifts), strongman training, etc. Nothing new under the sun, really. So if you're more interested in being able to grab and toss around heavy stuff than in having ripped six-pack abs, then you should at least consider this approach. Disclaimer: I have no financial or other interest in this approach, I've just read the book and used some of the techniques. Jay Minnix ===== Jay Minnix jiminnix@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: 16 Jan 03 09:57:07 -0600 From: MW To: the_dojang Subject: [The_Dojang] RE>kuk sool weapons Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I can only speak for 1st to 2nd dahn levels as there are many more after that: too gum (throwing knife) , juhn gum (straight sword and form) , dahn bong (short staff and form) , jewel bong (nunchaka) , bong dae ryuhn (staff sparring) and every once in a while my instructor will throw me a cookie and show a few po bak (rope). Any or all of these would work well combined with TKD although I really don't know where you could learn just the weapons before black belt. But I'm sure somebody in the DD could hook you up. michael whalen KSWnut --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:52:47 -0800 (PST) From: "Dr. Daryl Covington" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Living the Martial Way Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yes Sir, I have read Living the Martial Way, by Forrest Morgan. I was part of the review borad for his Black Belt tesing in JuJitsu back a couple years ago. He is a practioner of AiKiyama Ryu JuJitsu, under Mark Barlow, second generation Soke. The system was originated with Mr. Marshall. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:54:22 -0800 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Dinosaur tossing? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray writes: > No, I'm not talking about throwing around big ole monsters like > Grandmasters West and Timmerman... :) We only do Tibetan gophers, and Ph.D.s are available at a modest fee:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest