Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:53:03 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #24 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. True Warriors??? (Stovall, Craig) 2. real Hapkido (michael tomlinson) 3. Principles over Technique (FirstPe315@aol.com) 4. Re: Re: carbonecho (Jose) 5. Ph. D in martial arts (Rudy Timmerman) 6. Re: RE>kuk sool weapons (Braeswood Martial Arts) 7. Weapon Training (Rudy Timmerman) 8. RE: Re: Basic principles (Wallace, John) 9. Re: Re: Basic principles (Ray Terry) 10. Re: "Living the Martial Way" by Forest Morgan (DrgnSlyr5@aol.com) 11. Re: The Unfortunate Demise of CarbonEcho.com (Kent Frazier) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:29:42 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] True Warriors??? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Darin wrote, <<>> Well, I have to respectfully disagree. I believe that there is a capacity in all of us to be "warriors". In that sense, we are all "born to be warriors". I think the survival mentality you mention is a perversion of the warrior archetype. Throughout history, warriors have been nothing more than average everyday people who have been called upon to do extraordinary things in times of need. A single-minded obsession with "survival" has nothing to do with it, IMHO. A good illustration is the participation of the United States in the Second World War. The vast majority of men that were sent by this nation to fight and die in foreign lands did not come from some elite class of trained warriors, or people that were born with "warrior-like" qualities that can only be found in a minor subset of the population. They were school teachers, factory workers, professionals, students, etc. In other words, everyday average people like you and me. Their status as warriors was not dictated by their state of mind, but rather by the weight of their actions. The call was made for them to put their bodies between their homeland and the horrors of war, and they stepped up to the plate. This has happened repeatedly throughout human history, and will probably continue until our species has ended it's run. What's more, is that when peace was made these warriors went back to doing what they did before. Raising families, working jobs, building careers, going to school, etc. Just being average folk. But then again, that's where warriors come from...just average folk. Being a warrior is not about how you think, or even about how you fight. Being a warrior is about having something that's worth fighting for, and then carrying through with action when that "something" is threatened. Throughout history that "something" has most often been the greater good of the tribe/community/nation. In other words, the common denominator in all warriors is that they are willing to fight for something that they perceive as being greater than themselves, not a single minded obsession with personal security. I don't think for one minute that "thinking about survival everytime they enter a room" makes someone a warrior. It might make them an immature, non-socialized, paranoid nutjob who needs to get a life, but not a warrior. Nor do I believe that this type of thinking is common (or even a requisite) among true warriors (of which we all have the potential). Warriors (those average folk) are focused on living, not surviving. The difference is subtle in the wording, but profound in the meaning. Just my two cents. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 18:29:52 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] real Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ask to see your instructors Hapkido certification,, if he will show you his certification with no problem, then check out which organization he was certified under, 1) who did he study with 2) who did he get certified under 3) what organization is he under if he has a problem showing you his certifications or dan rank and gives you an attitude about it than IMHO he is trying to hide something, like maybe he really doesn't have any "real" Hapkido training and maybe just bought a video,, nothing wrong with video's but don't try to say you are something you are not,, Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:32:35 -0500 From: FirstPe315@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Principles over Technique Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well of course. I hope I didn't give the impression that I may only teach my students angular movement and great kuzushi (breaking balance to the non-japanese artists in here) and say...good luck! OF COURSE, you have to learn techniques, that's a no-brainer... Simply put, the principles are what train you instinctively even more than individual techniques. AND, learning these is what makes an individuals training elite. It is irrelevant if you are in the dojang 1 day a week or 6, your expectation of yourself should be for this. And Patrick, my whole point is that time, athleticism and strength are not "necessarily" the conditions that have to be in place for you to train "for the top 1%", I think you missed my whole point. My idea is that this is exactly the opposite. It's a mindset and an expectation, it doesn't even have to be reality. Jeff In a message dated 1/16/2003 6:01:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Training principles is correct, no problem there. But that alone will not > prepare you for all attackers and any type of attack. > Maybe not even > most attackers and most types of attack. --__--__-- Message: 4 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Jose Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:31:43 -0600 Organization: kiyap.com News Gateway Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Re: carbonecho Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Robert Martin wrote: > *Carbonecho ran out of money last year. It got caught > in the dot com crash. > > Robert Martin > * That is too bad. Does anyone have any contact names for whoever ran Carbonecho? I've got plenty of space and bandwidth and would love to host their videos. -- Jose ------------------------------------------------------------------------ www.kiyap.com Online Community for Martial Artists View this thread: http://www.kiyap.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1292 --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:51:34 -0800 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Ph. D in martial arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A member writes: > Does anyone know what happened to carbonecho.com? Does anyone know > where to > get an accre4dited Ph.D in martial arts? I believe there is someone in Florida:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Braeswood Martial Arts" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE>kuk sool weapons Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:06:15 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Any or all of these would work well combined with TKD although I really don't > know where you could learn just the weapons before black belt. But I'm sure > somebody in the DD could hook you up. > > michael whalen KSWnut In Kong Shin Bup weapons training starts about 1/2 way up the color belt system. As Master DeWitt has already stated but I feel we can never say it too much, contact any member of NKMAA for politics free training and an open mind about all martial arts and/or contact Grand Master Timmerman directly as he is always willing to help other martial artists. (www.nkmaa.ca) (www.nkmaa.com) Kat Kelly --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:07:40 -0800 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Weapon Training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Fred writes: > What weapons are taught to Kuk Sool Won students I can give you a basic idea of what weapon training is done in Kong Shin Bup, because it and Kuk Sool have similar roots. I'll list them in no particular order off the top of my head, bearing in mind that many of these weapons are only taught to higher ranks (and there are more than I have listed here): Dan Bong, Joong Bong, Jang Bong, Juhl Bong, Jook Do, Na Moo Gum, Dahn Do, Dan Gum, Ssan Dan Gum, Joong Gum, Jang Gum, Yuk Gum, Ssang Joong Gum, Chang, Hwal Do, Dang Pah (or San Che Chang), Poh Bahk, Ji Pahng Ee, Bu Chae, Too Suk, Kung Sa, and some of these weapons are done with Kisa Bup. As far as cross training is concerned, I can only offer my personal view. As long as the underlying principles do not confuse your training, I can see nothing wrong with it. However, if the underlying principles interfere with one another, the practitioner often ends up doing neither well. I have watched a very good Japanese school (run by a good friend of mine) lose its identity, because the instructor integrated a cool looking art he and his students experienced in some seminars. Today, this school no longer performs their original art very well, and they also are not great at their newfound art because they do not understand the underlying principles of the other art. That all important aspect of training simply was never discussed in the seminars they attended (and that happens a lot, because seminars usually do just the cool things). There are many things to consider, before venturing into cross training. #1 Perhaps your own art has the training you seek at a higher level; #2 Perhaps your instructor has not shown a particular thing to you, because you need more practice in other areas to get ready for it; #3, your instructor does not know the techniques you seek, so you might look for someone in your art who does know (hopefully with his blessing) etc. etc. Some martial artists later start their own art, and their students won't even be afforded the luxury of making a choice (because now their own instructor never learned the higher techniques the art has to offer -- see #3). I have also seen how good marketing skills elevated some practitioners into the highest positions in martial arts after following a similar path. Now these same persons frown when their own members do the same thing after they themselves let the Jack out of the box. Such training should not be confused with developing a new art. Training like that is simple Ho Shin Sool, and it is free to use whatever suits you (or bring in the money:) Before I get into another topic, I merely state these things to have you carefully think before you do something that may not be of the greatest benefit to you. In the end, if the art you now study does not give you what you seek, by all means get into something that works for you before you quit training. We all lose if a good practitioner quits because his Instructor is no longer able to motivate him. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Wallace, John" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Basic principles Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:30:51 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net All this talk about basics has got me wondering - Whatever happened to b, aka William Upton-Knittle? The last time I recall reading one of his screeds was when he was advocating tieing your belt to your ankles to better understand the basics of stances... -JW --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003 --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Basic principles To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:30:36 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > All this talk about basics has got me wondering - > Whatever happened to b, aka William Upton-Knittle? The last time I recall > reading one of his screeds was when he was advocating tieing your belt to > your ankles to better understand the basics of stances... Not sure. He was a member of the lists for a long time. Then there was a period where his mailbox would fill up and email would be bouncing back. So he'd be unsubed automatically due to the bounces. Then he'd sub back on and shortly thereafter the same thing would occur. This went on for a few months. Finally I think he must have given up. Must have had an account with tight constraints on mailbox size. Bill? You out there? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: DrgnSlyr5@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:28:26 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: "Living the Martial Way" by Forest Morgan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net It's been quite a while since I read this book, but I would recommend it. I remember noticing that some portions would be an excellent aid for a beginner in choosing one's primary art, while other portions would only be understood by those who have been in the martial way for a much longer period of time. Sharon --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:30:04 -0800 (PST) From: Kent Frazier To: Digest Dojang Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The Unfortunate Demise of CarbonEcho.com Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I hadn't realized it had gone down, haven't been there in quite a while. It was a good site, and its a shame it couldn't make ends meet. For those who still want to check it out, the Internet archive, located at http://www.archive.org , allows you to look at the various incarnations of a website, even if it no longer exists. I use it sometimes when I discover a site I liked has gone down. Its also interesting to look at the older versions of some more famous sites. Just thought you guys might be interested. Kent --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest