Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 03:01:52 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #31 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Incorporating something new = new art ? ( J T ) (Jason E. Thomas (Y!)) 2. terms (freddie bishop) 3. Re: Black Belt Magazine article (Ray Terry) 4. ITF dan fees ?? (Ray Terry) 5. Re: Incorporating something new = new art ? ( Ray Terry ) (rg10475@aol.com) 6. ( RE ) How far back would you like to go ? (JT) (rg10475@aol.com) 7. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Historical_Roots?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 8. Won Ki Kwan (Ali Alnasser) 9. Won Ki Kwan (Ali Alnasser) 10. Rotating side kick in Ju-che ? (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Jason E. Thomas \(Y!\)" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Incorporating something new = new art ? ( J T ) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 08:23:49 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The Martial Arts are derived from man's first need to defend himself or attack someone else. Literally the first time a cave man struck another cave man or defended himself when attacked by an animal. For Martial Artists to debate which modern country an particular art comes from is like two flea's fighting over who owns the dog they both live on. And how many of us were there to know where the Hwarang got their skills from? Given all the written documentation lying about. Regards, Jason > -----Original Message----- > From: rg10475@aol.com [mailto:rg10475@aol.com] > Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 12:26 PM > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Incorporating something new = new art ? ( J T ) > > Hi to all my M.A.'s bro's & sis's. > I've been a member of D.D. for about a year or so now . I' ve always read > everything > put out , never enter into any debate . Til now , when people talk about > Korean > Martial Arts . Say things like, TKD comes from Japanesse Shotokan, & HKD > from > Aikijuitsu, but fail to say that these arts also come from somewhere else > ( > Okinawa, > China ) its a bit upsetting . They say Kenjuitsu is pure Japanesse, but > forget to say > that the art of the sword & sword making came from KOREA. Yes this is > some > what > upsetting. And yes other then China, Koreans implemented the sword and > its > tech. > of making it before Japan. Also lets not forget that the HWA RANG came > before the > Samuria & Ninja . And Japan implemented much of their skills from them . > So > the > next time you talk about Korea & Japan please make sure you read your > history first > HWA > RANG!!! > > Your > bro. in the arts Noble one > > RG10475@AOL.COM > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 06:58:08 -0800 (PST) From: freddie bishop To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] terms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have noticed that not everybody uses the same terms for such basic thing as stances, and body parts Fred __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Black Belt Magazine article To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 07:32:00 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Congratulations to list member Sharon Tkach for her article in the Feb. 2003 > issue of Black Belt magazine. If you have not seen it, check it out on the > stands now. It's a Hapkido article aimed at women. Just saw it last night. Great job Sharon!!! Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 08:34:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] ITF dan fees ?? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just checking this for continued accuracy... Can anyone confirm if this is still the case? ITF Dan Fee Schedule ____________________________________ 1st Dan $180 2nd Dan $220 3rd Dan $260 4th Dan $300 5th Dan $340 6th Dan $380 7th Dan $420 8th Dan no fee 9th Dan no fee Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: rg10475@aol.com Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 13:22:21 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Incorporating something new = new art ? ( Ray Terry ) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well first of all I would like to say that I did'nt meain to insult anybodys intellegence. All I wanted to get across was the fact that, if Korea took something from Japan, like techs. from Shotokan, which I belive to be indispuetitalbe. Japan has also done the same from other coutries ( China, Okinawa, & yes Korea ). As for citing histori- cal references the list would be to long. So here are just a few, Samguk Sagi,Sam- guk Yusa, Hwarang Sagi, & Xinluo Guoji ( Sillagukji; History of Silla ). Also there is, The Bubishi, The M. A's of Ancient Korea, The Secrets of the Samuria, I could keep going but I am sure you know more then me. I AM OUT HWA RANG SIR Noble One --__--__-- Message: 6 From: rg10475@aol.com Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 13:44:10 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] ( RE ) How far back would you like to go ? (JT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net How are you doing sir; To answer your ques. I belive the cave man was in a gimaja- sae. O.K. no sarcasim, just a little joke. Maybe thats some of the problem, anyway my belive is that there are no pure arts out there.Once a master teaches his student his art, that student will teach his student his interpetion of that art, so there really is no pure arts out there. And just because some TKD is teaching weapons in their curriculem dose'nt mean they are not teaching TKD. I'M OUT HWA RANG SIR Noble One --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 13:17:53 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Historical_Roots?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jeremy: ".....I don't believe the problem we are having is not knowing our history, I think the problem is how far back to we want to dwelve into history to prove a point. You want to go back to the beginning. Fine...I don't believe Boddirahma(I never know if I spelled that right) intended his Hindu breathing exercises to be developed into a fighting systems. Better yet, when the first cave man picked up a rock to smash the other cave man did he use a front stance for the execution or was it more of a walking stance....." IMVHO I don't think it is a matter of degree. If history is misrepresented it does not matter to me if it goes back a year or several hundred years. Do you remember the statement made on this Net some months back about practitioners in Korea having to join the KMAIA? Ray checked into things and guess what? Now, what do we do with that. Had noone checked that statement would have stood as FACT. It was misrepresentation whether it was said last Summer or a number of Summers ago. Closer to your point, if somebody comes along and says that he practices the same sword or MT hand techniques as the HwaRang warriors I suggest that he better damn well be able to back that up with something more than oral tradition! If not we wind up with such MA legends as "the Shaolin Temple". (BTW: Just so you know I am not leaning on the Orientals lets remember that for about 6 hundred years there has been a round table hanging on a wall in the UK that is ascribed to Arthur and his knights. Yes, THAT "Arthur".) When all is said and done we would like our heros to be clean-cut, John Wayne-types. Every culture likes to have its heros and ideals and be known for them. Towards this end there is an awful lot of revision, and "convenient memories". Most of this has no malicious intent. People just like to be remembered or regarded in the most favorable light. Fine. However, I have come to believe that if something is what it is, it is in the best interests of the culture to take it for what it is and not try to dress it into something that it is not. From such efforts come the Bodhidarma-s of history. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Ali Alnasser" To: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:50:49 +0900 (KST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Won Ki Kwan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sorry, I forgot to give the URL... www.wonkikwan.com[TABLE NOT SHOWN] [TABLE NOT SHOWN][TABLE NOT SHOWN][IMAGE] --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Ali Alnasser" To: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:49:55 +0900 (KST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Won Ki Kwan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I found my first HKD instructors website and was wondering if the hyung's performed in the video are of KSW orgin. I guess things look a lot different in the eyes of a child.[TABLE NOT SHOWN] [TABLE NOT SHOWN][TABLE NOT SHOWN][IMAGE] --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 14:56:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Rotating side kick in Ju-che ? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In the form (tul in ITF terms) Ju-che, what is the application of the 2 kicks(?) where the extended sike-kick leg is rotated in a half circle? Bad description, I know, but ITFers will probably know of what I speak. I suspect it is meant as a demo of stability, but just thought I'd inquire. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest