Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:13:03 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #47 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Intro. (Lanie) 2. Groin Pull, Ouch! (Lee Fisk) 3. Dan testing (Charles Richards) 4. RE: Anti-Americanism in Korea (Morgan James) 5. RE>testing jitters (MW) 6. Re: SinMooSex (Klaas Barends) 7. Re: Re: SinMooSex-OT question point blank (Lanie) 8. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Discrimination_Stuff?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 9. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_More_Research_Stuff_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 10. Warm up Pants (bob smith) 11. Re: Re: SinMooSex-OT question point blank (Ray Terry) 12. Long Fist and Korean MAs (Khalkee@netscape.net) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 21:38:53 -0800 (PST) From: Lanie Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Intro. To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello John, Thank you for the welcome. Are first names the norm on this list, as far as etiquette goes? I shall look forward to being that spectator. Sounds like lots to learn here. Oh, Master Martin is not "Master", rather Mister, being a IV Dan at this time. Thanks to you who sent your welcome. Lanie --- "Wallace, John" wrote: > Lanie! Glad to see you made it to this list as > well. I think you'll find > it as valuable as Master Martin's, plus you'll > get to be a spectator to the > occasional Hapkido War(TM)...and you thought > the ITF had complex politics :) > > John W. > I Dan, TKD > Fremont, CA > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Lee Fisk" To: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 05:54:37 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Groin Pull, Ouch! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Who says there are no new experiences after 50. Last night I managed to pull a muscle in the groin during a work out. Having never done this before I experienced some new levels of pain. Anyone have recommendations for helping with the recovery. So far I'm using ice and Ibuprofen. -Lee Fisk (Tucson, AZ) --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 05:27:37 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Dan testing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> "Perfection" is saved for 4th Dan, (right Mac?) They just want you to put the best part of yourself forward. Now that's not all that hard, is it? ;) I know it's a stressful time, but in order to stay sane just remember they aren't looking for a performance you can't provide. They want to see YOU, Ellen. Just you. A human being working hard for what she desires. You give them that and the bricks will fall off before you know it. <> Oh yeah, Greg missed my 4th Dan test :-) This 4th Dan is just someone who has committed his life to the path and sharing some lessons learned with any who will step on the path :-) The way KJN Shin put it to me (para-phrasing) Perfection would be 10th Dan and is not attainable in mortal form and so 9th is the highest rank in TangSooDo. Now as one who has earned the right to "Executive greybearded Blackbelt" I just can't get a mental picture of you kicking low and slow. Maybe by the time you make 4th Dan, neh? I enjoyed you post on testing. My 1st Dan test was also one of the most stressfull events of my life, I was fine the week before and confident that my instructor had over prepared me.....until that morning when I got up. First I made the mistake of bringing my girlfriend (she sat through it all including the written test). I couldn't eat that morning, but half-way through the test I was starving. I was so nervous, when we stepped out and did the first low defense for line drills my rear heel was twitching like crazy and I was already sweating bullets. You are quite correct my instructors wanted to see me pass and everybody on the test did very well, at various times we all had some nervous moments, but the panel somehow remained stern but compassionate. Pil Sung Ellen! Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Morgan James To: 'Dojang Digest' Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:18:47 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Anti-Americanism in Korea Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I can really relate to this letter by Mr. Hurt. While in Korea as an Infantry Scout from 1993 - 94, I experienced several of these feelings among Koreans as well. But like Michael stated, not very often. It usually occurred when the young Korean man was with some of his buddys. I guess so he could mouth off and look "big" to his buds. But alone, the Koreans were not like this. One incident that really got the Koreans PO'd about us GIs was when this Private killed a Korean prostitute in a most profound way. If some of you recall this incident back in '93 or '94 then you will recall that the murder involved the use of a bottle, an umbrella, and washing detergent(I think). You can imagine what the bottle and umbrella were used for. He tortured the poor girl before killing her. My stepbrother who was an MP and stationed in Yong-San at the same time I was there was one of the MPs who brought the kid into the MP station. When word got out of what happened, all of us GIs were warned to NOT be out alone or even in small groups especially at night. The Koreans were on the warpath and wanted any GI they could get their hands on for revenge! There are actually pictures of the girl's body on the Internet somewhere. I saw them about a year or so ago. What makes this incident hit a little closer to home for me is that the Private who did the murder is from WV!! So, naturally it was on the local news back here at home at the time and it just one more thing to make West Virginias look even worse in the eyes of the public. The US military turned the kid over to the Korean government and know he is spending a hellacious rest of his life in a Korean jail!! Needless to say, he's probably getting his butt kicked on a regular basis if he's not dead by now. One time I had 3 Korean guys buy me several shots of Soju at a corner stand on the street in Itaewon as I was enjoying a delicious "rat-on-a-stick". They kept looking at each other in a suspicious manner as I took each shot. It was getting late and I just knew these guys were setting me up for something. After my last shot I quickly paid the gentlemen running the stand and got out of there. I actually went into the King's Club since it was close because I knew it would be mostly Americans in there. Yeah, I know, I shouldn't have been out by myself. But, sometimes you gotta live dangerously and at that particular time there were no immediate "threats" to GIs. I have a question about that "#1 line" that Michael talked about. Does anyone know if that is the train that takes you north to Moon-San? If so, I never heard it called "# 1 Line" before. I used to ride this train from Moon-san, since I was stationed in Pan Mun Jom, to Seoul quite frequently day and night. I never observed any negative actions or comments from anyone. Just curious. Also, has anyone ever heard of a Master Moon who had a TKD dojang in Moon-san? James Morgan GTKDA www.gtkda.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: 29 Jan 03 08:41:01 -0600 From: MW To: the_dojang Subject: [The_Dojang] RE>testing jitters Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ellen, Here's what I did to calm my nerves before my test: The week before I stayed up late every night, drank lots of beer w/ tequila shooters, and ordered my wings xtra hot & xtra garlic. Wait a minute, that was the week after. All joking aside, I think you already have the BB attitude when you said "I'm ready to try the best I can" after all, you wouldn't be testing if your instructor didn't think you were ready. I never say good luck as luck has got nothing to do with it. So how about "Have a great test and enjoy that BB !" michael whalen kswnut --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:29:57 +0100 From: Klaas Barends To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: SinMooSex Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > James these are Doju Nim Ji's 9 rules, and the healthy sex is not for > kids, > it is a way of living for adults,, most of the philosopy is geared > towards > adults when it comes to this kind of thing in Sin Moo Hapkido. You can also put it this way: it's unhealthy for kids to have sex. So for them leading a good sex life is a life without sex. If leading a healthy sex life is important, why do all those shaolin monks stay single???? :-) -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:12:01 -0800 (PST) From: Lanie Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: SinMooSex-OT question point blank To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello, I'm new here, but am going to take a risk and ask a question. Being that this can be a sensitive subject and where many assumptions and presuppositions can be made, this might be OT and/or sound rediculous. Anyway, by the term "healthy sex", does this mean morally? Does this refer to adult heterosexual couples or does this differentiate homosexual couples? I agree that children shouldn't be active sexually, so it would not be healthy for them. Some teachings teach, however, that unhealthy sex is also that between unmarried people, since if just living together, the couple might more easily split up, leaving untold/unseen scarring in souls--understandably so. What is the definition of this very good rule, of the term "healthy sex"? I would understand if this is just too point blank a question to ask on this list. I'm not into shock-value. I'm 46; a heterosexual, married with 3 kids; and am wondering of the meaning of this rule. So, I'm just asking for information. Thank you kindly, Lanie --- Klaas Barends wrote: > > James these are Doju Nim Ji's 9 rules, and > the healthy sex is not for > > kids, > > it is a way of living for adults,, most of > the philosopy is geared > > towards > > adults when it comes to this kind of thing in > Sin Moo Hapkido. > > You can also put it this way: it's unhealthy > for kids to have sex. > So for them leading a good sex life is a life > without sex. > > If leading a healthy sex life is important, why > do all those shaolin > monks stay single???? :-) > > -- > kind regards, > > Klaas Barends > http://www.hapkido.nl/ > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:02:45 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Discrimination_Stuff?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Michael: Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences in Korea. Even more, thanks for framing it as fairly as possible. In reading your post it seemed like you worked very hard to make sure we knew what happened as well as the surrounding circumstances. The US has held a presence in a great many countries around the world and even if we have had the best of intentions in doing so, perhaps we might reassess our motives for being in these locations, or at least our deportment while we are there. As I write this I remember quite recently the deportment of of a female US Air Force pilot who took exception to having to modify her dress while off-station in Saude Arabia. Raised quite a problem as she was quite sure she was within her rights to dress as she pleased. Technically she might have been right (I don't know-- I wasn't there) but good sense and good manners might have suggested that she defer to the wishes of her hosts. Raised on a diet of money and hutspa we Americans are often poor guests in other countries even if we bring good intentions with us and regardless of how badly we think everyone else in the world needs to adopt both our way of doing things and our reasons for doing them. The fact that the Korean people have a history of keeping to themselves and might, therefore, over- react to having their solitude violated is certainly a factor. I would add however, that no people appreciate having their culture abraided by foreigners.(Consider how often we here in America voice sentiments to foreigners like "yer in the country, learn the language".) Though not in Korea, I have been witness to how Americans both businessmen and servicemen have conducted themselves in foreign countries---especially impoverished foreign countries--- where foreign nationals must endure fights, insults and other insensitive behaviors if only to get ahold of much-needed US bucks. I am VERY sure that Americans at home would not tolerate the same behaviors visited on our businesses or people. This is a MA Net and for that reason I hope that your thoughts have given people pause to consider how cavalier we can become with something as a martial art or martial sport given into our keeping. Certainly this is only a small portion of Korean culture, but still one given into our care. Perhaps this will cause us to reconsider the free and easy way with which we mix and match various aspects of these arts. Then again, maybe not. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:26:28 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_More_Research_Stuff_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Folks: I'm about half way through Turnbulls' JAPANESE INVASION and heartily recommend it for anyone who is interested in the Japanese invasion of Korea (1592-1598). True he does seem to given a bit more insight into the Japanese vs the Korean side of the struggle, but not by all that much. For those of you who are wondering what this has to do with Korean Martial arts there are a number of important influences that were brought to bear on Korean Military Science during this experience. 1.) We have talked a lot about the role of the MU YEI TOBO TONG JI in defining Korean Martial Arts. Personally I think every person who practices KMA should have a copy and read it cover to cover. However, as the book itself states, the writings of General Qi, Ji-huang (1528-1588) were a very important influence and heavily "borrowed from". His JIN XIAO SHIN SHU ( MANUAL OF NEW TACTICS)was adopted by the Koreans (PM Yu, Song-nyong) at the encouragement of the Ming to assist in the reorganization of their military. I know we sometimes get pre-occupied with the Japanese influences on KMA because they have been so relatively recent. However, Korean arts are a balance of many influences and these Chinese influences need to be recognized and considered as we continue our training. 2.) Warrior Monks at first sight must seem like an oxy-moron. However, in a culture under attack, where the army has failed to protect the citizenry, help is solicited from just about any quarter and people not formerly considered worthy of martial consideration such as women, slaves, farmers and merchants are suddenly pressed into service. Monks were intelligent and able-bodied and had considerable resources to bring to the conflict. They also had maintained various fighting abilities which I am continuing to research just to see what respect we owe to these warriors in the context of modern MA. 3.) The Japanese influence may at first seem obvious, and then, not so obvious. Certainly they were a hardened fighting force to be faced, but they also had many additional advantages including different views of battlefield engineering, support systems, communication and tactics. I know most of us want to jump right in and ask things like "yeah fine, but how did they use a sword, or spear or bare hands". I think its important to remember that the way circumstances shape MA is much more important that the way MA shape circumstances. In Hapkido we call adapting to what our partner brings us, The Water Principle. There is much to be learned fro how the Korean culture adapted to what the Japanese presented them with and could go a long way towards explaining how our current KMA have come to be as they are. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "bob smith" To: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:51:49 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Warm up Pants Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I ordered some Otomix TKD pants for about $28 bucks and I love them. There are a vary light cotton/spandex type material. Not tight and weird but close fitting and extremly comfortable. Bigger at the top and gets narrow toward the leg bottom. The Smith TKD FamilyGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: SinMooSex-OT question point blank To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:56:50 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > What is the definition of this very good rule, of > the term "healthy sex"? Without going into too much detail, it is far less complex than some would make it. It is more along the lines that sex for hetro adults is good. Too much sex, i.e. too frequent, can be bad. As one ages, the sex should become less frequent as it saps life energy, esp from the man. Not too complex. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:01:37 -0500 From: Khalkee@netscape.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Long Fist and Korean MAs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Long Fist (Chang Chuan) is one of the four very influential Chinese boxing influences on Korean MA development. When I left D.C. for Minnesota I had 7 years of Long Fist (and other CMA) training. Couldn't find anything like it in the Twin Cities, and that's why I went to TKD. In part, it was most similar to what I was accustomed to ... particularly the kicking methods. Most recently the Korean Grandmaster that I trained with for 4 years told me that TKD is Long Fist ... he never said anything about the Japanese "influence". He was also a master of Norhtern Mantis Kung Fu (Ship Pal Gi?). __________________________________________________________________ The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest