Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 03:01:50 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #58 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. back issues (DrgnSlyr5@aol.com) 2. Celebrating Lunar New Year (Ray Terry) 3. early techniques (michael tomlinson) 4. Foreign Students Flock (Ray Terry) 5. Warrior Monks & Knights (Khalkee@netscape.net) 6. Teaching Joint manipulation (Rudy Timmerman) 7. Re: my son (Lanie) 8. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:Mixing_and_Matching?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 9. Muscling technique (DrgnSlyr5@aol.com) 10. WTF Taekwondo Competiton MPEG's (chris.finnegan@invetech.com.au) 11. Re: Belt ranking system -- follow-up (Denise Lee) 12. Re: Belt ranking system -- follow-up (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: DrgnSlyr5@aol.com Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 02:31:12 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] back issues Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Once again I am in search of magazine back issues. If anyone has any of the following issues that you're willing to part with, please contact me offline. Thanks. Sharon ~~~~~~~~~ Black Belt - Jan/92, March/99, Sept/99, Jan/01, Nov/01 Karate/Kung Fu Illustrated - June/78, Dec/94, April/95, Aug/95, Oct/96 Martial Arts/Combat Sports - June/01 Taekwondo (special edition of MA/Combat Sports) - 11/01 --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 05:58:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Celebrating Lunar New Year Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Celebrating Lunar New Year Holiday For most Koreans, the New Year truly comes around with the Lunar New Year, though most parts of the world are done with their celebrations. According to the lunar calendar, Seollal, or the first day of the lunar New Year fell on February 1. During the three-day holiday spanning from Friday to Sunday, a total of 31 million Koreans made homebound journeys to catch up on the past year with their parents, siblings and other relatives. But before the much-awaited reunion comes the hard part: food preparation. The process usually requires several days so that a wide array of dishes can be presented at traditional rites called charye, where people don the traditional Korean costume or hanbok and pay homage to their deceased relatives. Another custom highlighting the day is saebae, a form of greeting by bowing to elders to wish them good luck. That's an event children are most keen on aside from the traditional fun and games, as they're rewarded with money or saebaedon for every bow. Also on the day, no meal is complete without a bowl of teokguk, rice-cake soup with meat and vegetables. But above all, if you ask Koreans about the true meaning of seollal, many would agree the idea is to wish each other happiness and prosperity in the New Year and for many more to come. (Arirang TV) --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 13:42:56 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] early techniques Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Actually a lot of the early techniques you learn in Hapkido are there to defend against a judoka. The straight across wrist grab series that we are all so familiar with are to use against a judoka. Most judoka are taught to grab a lower wrist or sleeve and the opposing arms elbow area, these techniques "when done correctly" work against that mode of grabbing... try this,,, do your early techniques with someone grabbing the same side wrist and also the opposing arms elbow area,, can you still make the techniques work?? You should be able to.. that is why the "stepping" patterns are so important to the techniques,, your power to go against your opponent starts from your stepping and overall body positioning... if you have that right, things like triangle step first and x step to the outside, then you will be successful,,IMHO I don't buy that there are a whole series of techniques thrown in at the beginning that are not important,, yes they do look unrealistic when you see people practicing them from a static standing mode with each group grabbing the other but if you apply the judoka concept then everything makes much more sense to your students.. and things get much more lively in your classes.. My two cents Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 06:01:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Foreign Students Flock Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Foreign Students Flock to Boarding Houses by Lee Kyeong-eun (diva@chosun.com) The half-kilometer strip from Yonsei University's Korean Language Institute to Bongwon Temple is crowded with foreign scholars and students. Aside from some 300 students living in the dorm, over 600 foreigners are scattered in some 500 boarding houses around the school. Choi Min-seok of the International Exchange Program says over the last two to three years, foreign students enrolled at the language institute grew to some 1000, and many chose to live in boarding houses. Many foreigners wish to get the taste of unique boarding house culture. Russian student Ilena Bulgakova says she wanted to live like a Korean student. Enrolled in the beginner Korean language class, Bulgakova starts the day with breakfast with fellow boarders. "My Korean improved through talking with Korean students," she says. French student Marc Duval, who came to Korea in March 2002, lives in a boarding house within walking-distance from the school. Five of the ten boarders are foreigners and speak at least three different languages. Including two meals a day, the room and board costs about W450,000 per month, which is a considerable amount to many students. But Duval is willing to pay the money since he gets special experience from living in such a multicultural environment. Stores in the neighborhood have prepared various exotic staples to cater for foreign customers who might want a special kind of bread, jam, butter or cheese. English translations of product guides are also available. Lee Kil-sun, the owner of Geumran Mart, says some 50 to 60 foreigners come to the shop everyday, which makes her feel like being in the middle of Itaewon, the famous tourist district that attracts foreign crowds. Japanese restaurant Ebisu has a menu in Japanese; owner Jeong Jeong-hwa chose the location when she learned over 200 Japanese students live around Bongwon Temple. Kwon Yeong-ja, who has been running a boarding house in the neighborhood for eight years, currently hosts students from seven countries around the world, including Morocco, Brazil, Germany and Austria. When preparing breakfast for some 20 boarders, Kwon says she carefully manipulate the spiciness for foreign students who are not used to hot Korean food. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 11:02:32 -0500 From: Khalkee@netscape.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Warrior Monks & Knights Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, That was a cool "segue" into mention of knights. I was thinking of mentioning the traditions of knighthood, but I don't know enuf about those traditions. I do know that some were very religious and involved deeply religious and spiritual/esoteric stuff, grail stuff, etc. __________________________________________________________________ The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:57:21 -0800 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Teaching Joint manipulation Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce writes: > However, a good teacher will make sure that > a student learns the mundane, less dramatic material before moving on > to > the more sophisticated things. The problem I have seen is when a > teacher is > afraid that a student will not committ long enough to learn the basics. As I read the posts from Charles and Bruce as well as some others, I can't help but feel that there is an attitude of division that I just can't agree to. Charles may not have solid credentials (yet:) in Hap Ki Do, but he DOES understand the principles of technique. IMHO, he does that better than some Instructors I have seen who never trained in anything else but Hap Ki Do. Soo, perhaps we should not be too hard on looking for proper credentials, but instead we might focus on how the Instructor may improve your knowledge. As Bruce said, training in basic motion is a major factor in becoming a better martial artist (of any kind); however, I have personally witnessed a highly ranked (??) Grand Master try to learn an under black belt technique at a seminar, and he did not have a clue as to the underlying principle the particular technique was trying to teach him. It is beyond me how can a man like that can teach this technique in turn to his pupils. IMHO, teaching martial arts principles is where it is at. Instead of learning hundred or even thousands of techniques is ludicrous, it is much better to fully comprehend how a "set" of techniques work than working the set of techniques. When you see an artist like Master West at work, you soon get to see that he can work a technique without even thinking about it. Without fully understanding the WAY the technique works, he (and no one else) could ever make the thing work from EVERY conceivable angle of attack. When I teach joint locks, I make sure that I fully explain what makes the technique work, and I do this according to a carefully laid out plan. I begin with teaching a student about some of the basic tools he has available to him (and that differs with each student), then I teach him to improve his body to best make use of the tools HE has available to him. Then I "wake up" his senses such as hearing, feeling, smelling, and the host of other tools you have that need improving. Later yet, I work on having the student learn how to do this "on the move", and later yet, I put all of the pieces of this puzzle together. Repetition is a key word in Dojang training, and it takes a skilled teacher to disguise repetition to the point where his students are not bored to death and still repeat the lessons they so desperately need to fine tune the tools God gave him. It takes a long time before a particular move becomes so ingrained that it is useful for you in a real fight, and then it is just part of the puzzle that makes you a better fighter. In the end, one had better understand real good that fighting can put a tremendous hurt on you, and you MUST continue on despite anything that makes you wish you were home sucking back a beer. Anything less, and you could wind up very dead. Like a boxer trains on the speed bag, the heavy bag, shadow boxing, road work, skipping etc. etc. All of these workouts have nothing to do with the real fight he is training for. He simply is working on fine tuning his body to do the best he can with the upcoming fight he is training for. IMHO, anyone who trains martial art techniques with the idea of using the technique in a fight is a lost puppy looking for a bone. The Dojang work you do simply makes you a better man than you were before you began training. Woe on the martial artists who thinks this Dojang training can make him beat a street fighter who trains in the real thing on a daily basis. When you begin to understand some of the above, you also begin to see that it is not the credentials of a teacher that teaches Hap Ki Do, it is the man himself you should look at. If he is capable, you will be better off than working with a man who has surrounded himself with so much wallpaper or Mcorganization certificates. Most Hap Ki Do people have also trained in other arts, and this makes them understand better. I think the shoe can also be on the other foot, and I believe that a man like Charles is a better man just for hanging out with JR and others. Only if you just care about Hap Ki Do as a cultural movement do we need to worry about all of the traditions of that particular art. IMHO, simple joint manipulation is taught by many arts, and it is the MAN who makes it work OR NOT. Sorry folks, I just could not put this in a shorter form:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 11:27:42 -0800 (PST) From: Lanie Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] my son To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Bishop, Just want to share my thoughts.... It is interesting how at first, when we're trying to develop at the beginnings of a martial art how wearing the uniform adds to the discipline, and how the appropriate clothing has to do with the appropriate state of mind. But after the state of mind has been converted or conformed, the need for the outer wear diminishes. So, hopefully you and your son's mother might look forward to the internal settling of his art within him, and the dobok will be a decoration and statement of where he's at and what he'll have accomplished. And may he stay on the road to his goals! Lanie 3rd gup Taekwondo/USTF --- freddie bishop wrote: > Today, my son received his first dobok. His > mother > had not seen him practice for two weeks, and > when we > tried the dobok on him, he naturally wanted to > show > his stuff. Mom was impressed with how much he > has > improved. > > Fred > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign > up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang ===== "So when the front is prepared, the rear is lacking, and when the rear is prepared the front is lacking. Preparedness on the left means lack on the right, preparedness on the right means lack on the left. Preparedness everywhere means lack everywhere." -Sun Tzu in "The Art of War" __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:35:14 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:Mixing_and_Matching?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Charles: "...... I must disagree with Bruce TSD and it's Shotokan base were not > taught as sport. I try to teach my students sound martial science with > TSD as a base and philosophy..." I suppose we could go round and round about this. I would say that I have Funakoshi and his son to support my side of it and you could use, perhaps GM Kee (??) to support your side. I don't know that we would go anywhere with it. Just as a side note, though, do you study the more Shotokan-style hyung, or have you backed-up to the more Okinawan traditions and use their biomechanics as you execute techniques? Not a real issue-- I was just wondering from the standpoint of training as it relates to intended combat effectiveness in TSD. The actual reason I am responding to your post is the very important issue you raised and I think is one that we keep side-stepping around on this Net. Please don't hear any criticism in this because what I actually want to point out is that you raised the existence of a VERY important situation all too common in KMA. "...I started training in Hapkido > to enhance my ho shin sul skills, and I can honestly say I have done > that for myself and my students. With my new 4 day a week dojang I > have had little time to continue my regular classes in HKD, but I do > make at least one and often two of GM West's seminars and at least one > or more of Master Allison's seminars here in Georgia....." OK, so here is my thought. What exactly can a person in your position say about the nature of what they teach, or how does such a person represent themselves to their students. I know this might put you a bit on the spot but I was struck by the candor and sincerity of your statement and we have had more than a few people talk about mixing and matching various curriculum and different materials from disparate arts. In your case you practice TSD and also expand your experience by attending Master Wests' and Master Timmermans' activities. How then do you characterize what you teach to your students? In my own case I have had opportunities to seek help from Mac while in Jackson, and worked with Kevin who practices Kong Shin Bup. I have had opportunities to train with some fine Kuk Sul Do folks and of course I always have my Kumdo. I still represent my Hapkido as Yon Mu Kwan though I can see where many things which formerly had little value for me now have taken on new meaning with experience in parallel arts. For instance, the "sword work" of GM Myung in Hapkido which is distinctly "kendo-ish" is done in a distinctly Kum Bup fashion with the intent of using the sword not as a sport item but as a weapon. When a Hapkido student asks me about the sword we train in, I tell them it is Hwa Rang Kum-Bup, but I would like to think that I have built on what my Korean teachers have given to me from their culture and through study have made it more authentic. We have talked quite a bit on this Net about what happens when folks start trying to expand their art or improve on it and most often it seems that these folks feel the need to go OUTSIDE of Korean traditions to do this. I think your post caught me because I see you doing what I work to do and that is labor within the context of Korean arts to improve on what you have been given. Now, again, let me ask, how do you then characterize what you do and teach to your students and your community in general? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 9 From: DrgnSlyr5@aol.com Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 14:59:38 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Muscling technique Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net << Seems that those without a basic understanding of HKD frequently attempt to 'muscle' HKD techniques, making them HKD-ish. >> This happens even in HKD schools. Big guys are so used to powering through opposition that they often don't really understand the technique. An instructor must make sure the student is applying proper principles such as push/pull. This takes constant vigilance and close observation. Sometimes the best lesson is to demonstrate on the student so they can feel how little power is being used to effect the desired result. Sharon --__--__-- Message: 10 From: chris.finnegan@invetech.com.au To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:27:19 +1100 Subject: [The_Dojang] WTF Taekwondo Competiton MPEG's Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello everyone, Firstly thanks for a very interesting mailing list. Does anyone have/know of locations of WTF Taekwondo Tournament MPEG's. I enjoy the competition side of things and would like to watch other peoples styles, Thank you Chris Finnegan --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Denise Lee" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Belt ranking system -- follow-up Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:00:49 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Intesting info about the swimming connection. That portion was new news. > Thanks. > Ray Terry Sorry to have perhaps bored you with the rest of it. Such an explanation of rank meaning is not something I've ever encountered in my KMA experiences. I thought that perhaps some others might not have encountered such information either. Denise --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Belt ranking system -- follow-up To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 19:26:35 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Intesting info about the swimming connection. That portion was new news. > > Thanks. > > Sorry to have perhaps bored you with the rest of it. Such an explanation > of rank meaning is not something I've ever encountered in my KMA > experiences. I thought that perhaps some others might not have > encountered such information either. ??? No no, it was a very good write up. More complete than the abbreviated form (from Steve Gombosi) that appears in the KMA FAQ. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustutkd1@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest