Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 19:28:02 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #60 - 16 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. WTF School In Iowa (Stanley A. Wright) 2. Co-existence of digest and non-digestified (Ray Terry) 3. Re: Belt ranking system -- (Kirk Lawson) 4. Re: Belt ranking system -- (Kirk Lawson) 5. Reply to Bruce (FirstPe315@aol.com) 6. Re: students w/low self esteem (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 7. Korean Independence at PSU (FirstPe315@aol.com) 8. Bobs Problems (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 9. Kumdo in Fort Lee, NJ (Jason Chin) 10. Low self-esteem? (Patrick L) 11. Re: Moja Kwan and other Korean Martial Arts (Jye nigma) 12. Overland Route to Mt. Geumgang Opens (Ray Terry) 13. Re: Moja Kwan and other Korean Martial Arts (Ray Terry) 14. Re: Teaching Joint Manipulation (Kevin Janisse) 15. Re: Low self-esteem? (Braeswood Martial Arts) 16. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Just_a_thought......?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 12:23:37 -0800 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: "Stanley A. Wright" Subject: [The_Dojang] WTF School In Iowa Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Does anyone know of a WTF School in the West Des Moines, Iowa area. Stanley A. Wright Master, Golden Dragon TaeKwon Do Fairbanks, Alaska --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:38:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Co-existence of digest and non-digestified Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A request... On the list, this list, we have two ways a person may be subscribed. They may choose to receive each post to the list as an individual email message or they may choose to receive the posts grouped together in a digest format (i.e. digestfied). A subscriber may change how they are subscribed by going to http://the-dojang.net, logging-in, and following the directions provided. One problem with this 'freedom' is that when those that are subscribed to the list in its non-digestfied form (an individual email per post) reply to a message they may quote the entire message to which they are replying. This can be a problem for those on the digest as they see the same long message over and over again. So the request is... please quote only the portions of interest or enough so that others may easily follow the thread. In other words, please trim your post. The other problem is when those on the digest form of the list simply reply to an issue of the digest. The subject of that message then becomes something like "Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #59 - 9 msgs". Not a very useful subject line for those receiving individual emails and wishing to follow a specific thread. Subject lines like "Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #59 - 9 msgs" also don't make the Table of Contents at the head of every digest issue very useful. So the request is... please update your email's subject line to be something useful -and- remember to trim your post. Any questions? Feel free to contact me offline. Thanks. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 15:38:00 -0500 From: Kirk Lawson Organization: Heapy Engineering To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ("THE$DOJA@SMTP {the_dojang@martialartsresource.net}") Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Belt ranking system -- Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > From: "Denise Lee" > To: > Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Belt ranking system -- > Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:53:06 -0500 > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Mr. Lawson noted-- > > > Steve also made a similar (almost word for word) entry for > the RMA FAQ > > (rec.martial-arts usenet newsgroup) where he is a regular poster. > I've > > never seen him on this list and I don't recall him > mentioning any KMA > > training or even interest. > > Cunningham-sensei's interest in KMA is only for sharing info and > learning from each other. He's wealth of information re: the history, > technical and philosophical aspects of judo, at the least. My posting > was the content of a personal communication with him, which he gave me > permission to post here. (I hadn't considered the KMA FAQ as I'd > remembered the swimming connection -- with him as the source -- so I > asked a mutual friend and received the reply from Cunningham-sensei.) > > Thanks for the reminder about the KMA FAQ and the info re: the newbie > guide, though:) > > Denise Miscomunication. That'd be "Steve Gombosi" I was referring to not "Steve Cunningham." :-) Peace favor your sword --- "In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or knowledge of their use." -Achille Marozzo, 1536 --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 15:36:00 -0500 From: Kirk Lawson Organization: Heapy Engineering To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ("THE$DOJA@SMTP {the_dojang@martialartsresource.net}") Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Belt ranking system -- Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > From: Ray Terry > Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Belt ranking system -- > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:43:36 -0800 (PST) > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Feel free if you wish... :) My life is complicated enough as it is, thankyouverymuch. ;-) > I was/am a contributor to the RMA FAQ and provide a link to it as > well as a copy (the downloadable copy a bit out of date, tho) via > martialartsresource.com. Cool. I must have just missed the link then. > Permission was requested and received to include Steve's > write-up. No problems. > Plus you will note that his name and email addr are clearly provided. Yeah, I saw his e-mail address, etc. Like I said, it looked like a cut-n-paste from the RMA version. Still, you mention the reference link so, it's all cool. Even then, as I mentioned, the RMA FAQ licence allows this sort of thing (iirc). I just found the nearly identical text (for that section) interesting and thought that a courtesy attribution should be given. Since it is, then I've got no beef. Peace favor your sword --- "In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or knowledge of their use." -Achille Marozzo, 1536 --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 16:01:04 -0500 From: FirstPe315@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Reply to Bruce Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I agree completely Bruce. I have felt the "inner turmoil" at times but always stick to my guns because that's how I was taught and ultimately, that's really how the wheat and chaff are separated anyway. Nice comments. Jeff In a message dated 2/4/2003 6:01:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > I think it is worth mentioning that this is also one place > where a lot of > Hapkido teachers fall down on the job. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 16:01:54 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: students w/low self esteem Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "Does anyone have suggestions of dealing with adults of middle age who have low self esteem." one thing i've been reading about lately is how what we choose to think about tends to guide us. illona sent me something on money: if we think about being poor and our bad money situation constantly, then that's what we'll have. if we focus on what our dreams are, realistically, and how to achieve them, we'll have a better chance of getting there. not only do we need to "think" positive (although i wish that was the answer ;))....but we have to ACT positive and proactively. sounds like your guy's put some thought into what he WANTS. now he needs to brainstorm about how he can GET there. a big hurdle, though, is choosing not getting help with that brainstorming. some folks are too afraid to ask for help in getting ideas. i guess we all want the proprietary rights to our own success :). "look what i did!". however, i dont think i've ever seen a single "successful person" say "i did it alone". (and please, people, i dont want to get into a debate about what makes "success"...it's entirely subjective. i'll state my opinions, you state yours, but i'm not going to fight over who's right :)). it seems to me that success is a series of events or steps undertaken by an individual, with the support of a network of others. whether or not those others are intimates (spouses, paramours, family members) or anonymous (an obscure message on the sign of a bus, an email, a website, a paragraph in a book read long ago) is not important. its what we do with the ideas and information they provided. and then, bob, there's the folks who you could provide a whole house, with door and key and they'd never unlock it and go in. so, what i'm saying, is if i choose to try and assist someone with low self esteem, i'll listen to where they are, where they want to be, help them as well as i know how to pinpoint goals and take steps to achieve them, and know when i could do no more. good luck, melinda --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 16:04:31 -0500 From: FirstPe315@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean Independence at PSU Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks for the updat Mr. Terry. I'll try to attend. Jeff In a message dated 2/4/2003 6:01:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > I am forwarding an information about a panel discussion on Feb. 8, 2003 at > Portland State University. I hope those near Portland, > Oregon attend. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 16:34:56 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Bobs Problems Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bob, I saw you already had a range of replies, but thought I would give you a little different take from my prospective. With the symptoms you discribe, its no wonder this guy's life is in disarray. I note that he seems to hold the same common opinion that so many people hold, "its always someone else's fault." I agree with John that I would probably not spend the effort to acknowledge his epistle to you. I have found that a lot of people, particularly adults, that feel they are the victim of uncontrolable events have long refused to believe that they are responsible for other people's reactions to them. In other words, they will not acknowledge that other peoples reactions to them are a direct result of their own actions. The self victimization results from failure to acknowledge responsibility, which in turn allows the person to let themselves off the hook and continue acting as he/she does. I have dealt with this in young people effectively. However, the possiblilty of breaking this type of cycle in middle aged adult is much slimmer. Personally, I frequently focus mini lectures during or at the end of class on "Ability-Responsibility", "Choices and Results", "Focus on Improvement", "Setting and Achieving Goals". However, the person will have to accept you as a mentor, someone worthy of emulation, before he will listen to you. If you reach this stage, he may listen, and may give you the opportunity for one on one discussions. At any time, he may just decide you are another one of those people that just doesn't like him for no reason. Now, I believe that God can and might choose to miraculously straighten this guys life out, but I believe that He is far more likely to work through others he places near the person. But as always, Gods help is contingent upon the individual deciding to take the help. It always boils down to that "choice thing" in the end. Hope this may provide some help. Danny Dunn <<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Jason Chin" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 17:46:42 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Kumdo in Fort Lee, NJ Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello: I'll be moving to Fort Lee, NJ in a few months and would like to begin taking kumdo classes. Can anybody recommend a good school there? Access by public transportation is an important factor, as I don't drive. I've thus far found two schools - HongMooKwan and Kom Bop Sang Moo Kwan; I intend to stop by each school to check out a class... Any leads to other schools would be appreciated. Thank you! _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Patrick L" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 16:41:26 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Low self-esteem? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Bob, I read your post with quite a bit of concern - Your 46 year old's problems seem long standing and rather complex. In my humble opinion, unless you are a professional in the area of mental health, his problems are beyond YOU helping him, and you should focus on getting him help. Wishing for the Best, Patrick >For instance I have a 46 year old man who trained in everything, did >everything, knows how to do everything, and yet has not gotten anywhere in >life not even to black belt. His home-life, work-life and most assuredly >his personal life by his own admittance are in disarray. His second day of >class he brought with him a four page letter with his suggestions on how to run a martial arts school, his many personal difficulties both physically and emotionally, his difficulties with past instructors, and how nobody liked him because at a white belt level he could spar with the black belts and win. (My first instinct is to wash him out with a quick test to see how much he is willing to help himself and fast, yet I do claim to want to help since he asked for help. (I think I will add some questions to my new student enrollment form and interviews) (What did I get my self into? Here I go, patience Bob, patience and self control.) Bob< _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 16:53:30 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Moja Kwan and other Korean Martial Arts To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Where can I find information about Tang Soo Do. I was told that it was like the martial side of TKD. So with that I wondered if they were related somehow? Jye __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:38:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Overland Route to Mt. Geumgang Opens Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Overland Route to Mt. Geumgang Opens For the first time since the Korean War in 1950-1953, a group of South Korean civilians, mostly Hyundai officials, on Wednesday (Feb. 5) toured Mt. Geumgang in North Korea via the land route on the east coast through the heavily fortified demilitarized zone (DMZ). --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Moja Kwan and other Korean Martial Arts To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:47:30 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Where can I find information about Tang Soo Do. I was > told that it was like the martial side of TKD. So with > that I wondered if they were related somehow? Check the 'Soo Bahk Do' entry in the recently mentioned KMA FAQ. Soo Bahk Do and Tang Soo Do are different names for the same Korean art. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Kevin Janisse" To: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 18:41:13 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Teaching Joint Manipulation Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Timmerman, Well said. I can recall numerous times spending many hours with you going over a few techniques specific to certain principle you were prompting (ouch) me to learn. In the end I was not full of Techniques but I did have the understanding of the principle which could be used in numerous other techniques. Once one has the understanding of a handful of principles he/she can start to easily identify the intent of a technique and eventually, successfully apply and teach it. In other words as Master Timmerman said "Practice, Practice, Practice" Sincerely, Kevin Janisse --__--__-- Message: 15 From: "Braeswood Martial Arts" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Low self-esteem? Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:58:55 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Bob, I must agree with Patrick. If the usual self-esteem solutions of positive influence and redirection of perspective have not solved this problem, perhaps your student may need a mental health professional to help him as well as your positive influence. Sometimes martial arts and mental professionals work well together to help those in need. >From your post it seems perhaps he has some control issues as well, which may disrupt the positive atmosphere of your classes. With your student having past issues with other martial art instructors (I am assuming these are still troubling him) your work is certainly cut out for you. As many well educated and successful masters have recently told me do not sacrifice many students for the sake of one. I feel for you and your situation and am thinking happy thoughts and wish you good luck. Sincerely, Kat --__--__-- Message: 16 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 21:02:31 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Just_a_thought......?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Charles: ".....Bruce, because of the strainer that my knowledge of these forms came through, I would have to say that what we do is more Japanese Shotokan motion than Okinawan (Te) motion......" I notice that you are really sensitive to the issue of developing sound body movement and fluidity. Have you ever considered using the Okinawan versions of the various Korean hyung towards this end? I believe that not only would it increase fluidity, but that the Okinawan approach uses greater range of motion, and also provides perhaps a wider range of application or interpretation. I also find that broader range of motion does wonders for opening the hips and shoulders of students (and old farts like me). For my part I tend to examine more of the Chinese because I am of a mind that the Okinawan and the Korean cultures, each in their way, were more of a conduit for Chinese culture coming off the continent than being imported on to the continent. Of course, thats just my take on things. There are tons of materials on Okinawan traditions if you are interested. Authentic traditional Chinese material is a little harder to get ahold of, however I remember an article published in a MA magazine not so very long ago about a Chinese gentleman who makes a business of republishing old Chinese MA manuals and notebooks he stumbles upon. That might be a good source for one. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustutkd1@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest