Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 03:01:47 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #71 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. long time lurker (Burdick, Dakin R) 2. GM Won Kuk Lee (Dewitt, Garrett) 3. OT-- FW: Photo from the space station, amazing!]] (Lanie) 4. RE: Lee Won-kuk and Chon-ji patterns (Dave Steffen) 5. Re: "Martial Sport" (Michael Rowe) 6. V-neck tops (Wallace, John) 7. Prayers and postive thoughts wished (Michael Rowe) 8. Re: Re: "Martial Sport" (Ray Terry) 9. Re: V-neck tops (Ray Terry) 10. RE: Prayers and postive thoughts wished (Wallace, John) 11. Request input from DD members (tntcombatives@attbi.com) 12. Victims gain voice (Ray Terry) 13. Origins of Korean martial arts (Rudy Timmerman) 14. TKD Won Nationals (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:56:57 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] long time lurker Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net John wrote: >When did you get your own internet access, Dakin? Must have been in 1990! How does one find out these things? I posted that first history of TKD on the web in 1990 (and it is still available on Ryan Shroyer's site!): http://ryanshroyer.tripod.com/dakin_burdick.html I'm fairly certain I was reading the usenet groups for a few years before that. Take care, Dakin dakinburdick@indiana.edu --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Dewitt, Garrett" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:25:55 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] GM Won Kuk Lee Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Ray Terry wrote: Not sure if he (Won Kuk Lee)had anything to do with those forms. I think he taught the original TangSooDo-TaeSooDo-Taekwondo forms. Master Terry is absolutely correct. Mr. Won Kuk Lee had nothing to do with the Chang Hon Hyungs. I am not sure where this idea came from. I have heard many others stating that "the Chun Gi Hyungs are the original Chung Do Kwan Hyungs." This is not correct at all. I trained under GM IL K. Kim and GM Chung Lee, both trained under Mr. Won Kuk Lee, and GM Hae Man Park. When I inquired about the Chang Hon Hyungs, which GM IL Kim and GM C. Lee taught, I was told, "these are taught because at one time they were the forms taught through the K.T.A. These Hyungs have not been taught for several years by Masters certified through the KCDKF under GM Ihm Kyu - Pres KCDKF / Vice-Pres Kukkiwon. Thank You. Master Garrett DeWitt Korea Chung Do Kwan --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:20:09 -0800 (PST) From: Lanie To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com Subject: [The_Dojang] OT-- FW: Photo from the space station, amazing!]] Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > To: ux@central.sun.com > > cool image of the earth.... > > > > > > > > Check the link below...This is really a > sight to behold. > > > > > > > > The image is a panoramic view of the > world from the new space station. > > > It > > > is > > > > a night photo with the lights clearly > indicating the populated areas. > > > > > > > > You can scroll East-West and North-South. > Click on photo and use icon > >in > > > > lower right to change from world view to > continental view > > > > > > > > Note that Canada's population is almost > exclusively along the U.S. > > > border. > > > > > > > > Moving east to Europe, there is a high > population concentration along > > > the > > > > Mediterranean Coast. It's easy to spot > London, Paris, Stockholm and > > > Vienna. > > > > Check out the development of Israel > compared to that of the Arab > > > countries. > > > > > > > > Note the Nile River and the rest of the > "Dark Continent." After the > > > Nile, > > > > the lights don't come on again until > Johannesburg. Look at the > > > Australian > > > > Outback and the Trans-Siberian Rail > Route. > > > > > > > > Moving east, the most striking > observation is the difference between > > > North > > > > and South Korea. Note the density of > Japan. > > > > > > > > What a piece of photography. The picture > was taken from the Space > > > Station > > > > November 2000 on a perfect night with no > obscuring atmospheric > > > > conditions." > > > > > > > > > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail > protection with MSN 8. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > ===== "Always remember--a Black Belt is just a white belt who didn't quit" -KJ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Dave Steffen Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:24:29 -0700 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Lee Won-kuk and Chon-ji patterns Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > From: "Franz, Kevin J (Kevin)" > Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:28:42 -0600 > > Regarding Mr. Stovall's question: > > >So, was Lee Won-kuk the sole author/originator of the Blue Cottage > >forms (Chon-ji patterns)? I'm just wondering if he himself > >created these forms when he founded his Kwan, or did they > >originate over time through collaboration with his top students > >and training partners? Or do we know for sure? [...] > Grandmaster Han also worked very closely with General Choi and the > ITF for many years, and was a featured member of the early demo > teams. > > Within the UTF we perform the Chon-ji patterns (WITHOUT the > "sign-wave," but that's another topic!). We were taught that the > patterns were indeed a product of individual students. And further, > we were taught that the pattern Hwa-Rang was the creation of > Grandmaster Han. > > Three points to note: > > 1. I always assumed that General Choi commissioned Grandmaster Han to > create his pattern for the ITF (and the others too??) That's my understanding... > 2. We were never taught who created any of the other patterns. It > was just a side note when students reached the Hwa-Rang pattern > that "this is the pattern that Grandmaster Han created." There > were no similar side notes for any of the other patterns. I'm pretty sure that other patterns, particularly some of the black belt patterns, were also created by the General's students, usually in collaboration with him. I recall that many of the black belt forms were created when the General and several of his people were in Vietnam acting as military advisors. > From: "Stovall, Craig" > Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:51:33 -0600 > Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Lee Won-kuk > > OK, now I'm more confused than usual. I saw where Jhoon Rhee was > listed as a Chung Do Kwan graduate, and I'm almost 100% positive > that he was teaching the Chon-ji patterns when he first came here. > The reason I say this is because he had the old book series though > Ohara in which he showed the Chon-ji patterns as well as some > "applications", and also the fact that one of my TKD lineages comes > from Rhee from WAY back in the day (before he started wearing silk > pants, and rubbing elbows with Congress) and we did the Chon-ji > forms there (as well as Bassai, and Chulgi, and a few others that > are not usually shown as part of the "Chon-ji set"). I heard that 'way back when Gen. Choi was first getting the ITF together and introducing his forms, he came to the U.S. and convinced Jhoon Rhee (who IIRC had already been teaching here for several years) to join up with the organization and teach his patterns. It wasn't stated explicitly, but I got the impression that Master Rhee didn't stick with the ITF for all that long, but kept the patterns for quite some time. OTOH, I don't remember who I heard this from, so I can't vouch for the authenticity. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Steffen Wave after wave will flow with the tide Dept. of Physics And bury the world as it does Colorado State University Tide after tide will flow and recede steffend@lamar.colostate.edu Leaving life to go on as it was... - Peart / RUSH "The reason that our people suffer in this way.... is that our ancestors failed to rule wisely". -General Choi, Hong Hi --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Michael Rowe" To: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:23:44 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: "Martial Sport" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray asked: <> I heard it first in 1982 in reference to Judo, wrestling (Freestyle, Greco-Roman), Sambo, and Kendo. These were now considered martial sport because of the preoccupation with competition verses other aspects of the form. Michael Rowe www.danilpress.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Wallace, John" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:21:51 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] V-neck tops Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To those who are familiar with these things - how do you use the little button on the left hip with the elastic loop on the right hip? Personally, I yank off the elastic and ignore the button, but its something I've wondered about... --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.454 / Virus Database: 253 - Release Date: 2/10/2003 --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Michael Rowe" To: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:30:41 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Prayers and postive thoughts wished Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I used to not be one to do such things but when worries come close to home I guess I'm not above asking for being kept in others prayers and having positive thoughts sent our way. My wife is expecting real soon (within a month now) and being diabetic there has always been a risk. However, last week we were informed that there is a 99% chance of a C-section and an increase to a 90% chance of a stillbirth. Well this new has to say the least freaked her out. So I have been calming her down (mind set being a wonderful factor in health that it is and all that). I know many of us have had disagreements in the past but I count most people here among the best people I've know (and often not even met) So if you could include my wife and baby in your prayers or just send us postive thoughts (I know some of you don't believe in that but I'll take whatever I can get now. Thanks, and God Bless! Michael Rowe --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: "Martial Sport" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:20:29 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I heard it first in 1982 in reference to Judo, wrestling (Freestyle, > Greco-Roman), Sambo, and Kendo. These were now considered martial sport > because of the preoccupation with competition verses other aspects of the > form. Great. Do you remember where or recall the source? Thanks! Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] V-neck tops To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:22:47 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > To those who are familiar with these things - how do you use the little > button on the left hip with the elastic loop on the right hip? Personally, > I yank off the elastic and ignore the button, but its something I've > wondered about... I think the little elastic band goes across your belly and hooks over the button on ta'other side. I have no need to 'adjust' its length, but those in better shape may... :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Wallace, John" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Prayers and postive thoughts wished Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:17:43 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Mr Rowe: I certainly wish you the best of luck, and will keep your family in my prayers. Is the 90% chance of stillbirth in case you opt to avoid the C-section and go au-naturel, or is that the chance even with a C-section? My daughter was in a breech position; the doctor recommended a C-section for my wife since the baby is our first. She came through it fine,and even has happy memories of the day (my wife - the baby's keeping her own counsel at the moment) John W -----Original Message----- From: Michael Rowe [mailto:mp_rowe@cox.net] My wife is expecting real soon (within a month now) and being diabetic there has always been a risk. However, last week we were informed that there is a 99% chance of a C-section and an increase to a 90% chance of a stillbirth. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.454 / Virus Database: 253 - Release Date: 2/10/2003 --__--__-- Message: 11 From: tntcombatives@attbi.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 01:52:53 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Request input from DD members Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings All, A while back, I asked for input on creating a community/parks & rec program. A belated thank you to all those who gave me their excellent advise and knowledge. I now have a new issue. At the start of the year I started teaching again. 3 classes a week. I am teaching as a volunteer for the city, and do not get paid for my services. The students pay only a $15/month admin fee to the city, none of that goes to me. The money gained will go for equipment like bags, mats, belts etc., to benefit the students. I do make a bit of cash on uniforms & sparring gear. Students don't have to buy from me, and I have told them various places (online & local) to buy stuff, but I offer a 10% discount, so they come to me for what they need. I teach what I know, which is a blend of TKD (trad & sport), Aikido, Jujitsu, Okinawan Karate, and no-nonsence combatives. Here comes the strange part. There is a local TKD school here in town. They teach out of a elks type lodge hall. I have no idea what they charge or how many students they have. I know of the school, because I work in the city and pay attention to martial arts type things. Most people around do not know that the school exists. The only advertisements I have seen are posted on the post office bulletin board. I know the husband/wife team that run the school from way back in the day, as we trained under the same GM. They since broke away from the GM, and are independant. I do not teach the same style they do. Today, I was called into the city manager's office. The instructors of the unknown school are upset and complaining that the city is trying to put them out of business by subsidizing my program. (which would mean that the city is somehow giving out cash for the program) They have been complaining to the city staff, city manager, and mayor. They have demanded that the city stop me (or anyone else) from teaching or running a martial arts program in the city. Next Tuesday, they are taking their complaints to the city council meeting, and I have been asked by the city to defend my position. I am not worried about it, as I make no money off tuition, and the money I do make is after class on my own time...and there are no issues of policy violation or favoritism being that I am a police officer in the city. If they wanted to do the program, they should have expressed interest. I did this on my own time, as a resident and community supporter. I even have 3 pro-bono students as they can not afford to pay. The question for the DD is have any of you run into this before? As commercial school owners or volunteer community school instructors? For the life of me, I cant see why they feel that they should have a monopoly. Any input? -- Mark Gajdostik TNT-Police Combatives TNT-Martial Arts 503-789-1356 --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:49:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Victims gain voice Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Victims gain voice in Japan 2003.02.13 A Japanese female lawmaker yesterday promised to push ahead with a bill that would require Tokyo to apologize for the sexual enslavement it enforced during the war and compensate its victims. Tomiko Okazaki, a member of Japan's Upper House, attended the weekly rally of Korean "comfort women" in front of the Japanese Embassy in Seoul. "I know we still have a long and rocky way to go. I will try harder to push (the Diet) to legislate the bill," said Okazaki, a member of Japan's Democratic Party. Okazaki met seven elderly Korean women, who were forced to provide Japanese troops with sex before and during World War II. The women, all in their 70s or 80s, have been holding the weekly rally for more than 11 years. "Seeing you all sitting out in such cold weather, I sincerely hope you will be able to end your rallies as soon as possible," Okazaki said. In an interview with the press, she said out of 225 Upper House members, 86 lawmakers have already signed the bill, which was first proposed in 2001 and again submitted to the parliament last month. "The bill calls for the Japanese government to offer an official apology, compensate the victims with its own money and establish a committee led by the Japanese prime minister to handle the issue," Okazaki said. Historians estimate that about 200,000 women, mostly Asian, were forced to work in Japan's frontline military brothels between the 1930s and 1940s. But Tokyo has refused to officially apologize, while instead offering surviving comfort women financial compensation through the private Asian Women's Fund. Many victims, however, have turned down the compensation, dismissing it as "indirect." "It is not compensation from the government itself. It should spend its own money," Okazaki said. The Japanese legislator returned home yesterday after a three-day stay here, during which she delivered a letter to President-elect Roh Moo-hyun. "I requested Roh to take the issue seriously. As Roh often emphasizes a 'future-oriented' relationship, I pointed out that the future can only begin after clearing up the past," she said. Korea has about 205 registered former comfort women, of whom 76 have already passed away. According to Okazaki, during her meeting with Korean lawmakers who are members of the National Assembly standing committee on female affairs, she asked them to put more pressure on Japan to adopt the proposed law. "About 110 Korean lawmakers expressed their support for the bill. But in the Philippines and Taiwan, both parliaments adopted a resolution to back the legislation," she added. Okazaki said she began to pay attention to the plight of the comfort women in 1990, after listening to a lecture from a Korean professor from Ewha Womans University. "Even before that time, I had joined in feminist activities. But the lecture prompted me to jump into the movement for comfort women," she said. jihoho@koreaherald.co.kr By Kim Ji-ho Staff reporter --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:21:48 -0800 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Origins of Korean martial arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jye writes: > It's so hard to think of Korea as having it's own > fighting system because of the influence of china and Japan. Hello Jye: I wonder what causes you, or anyone else for that matter, to have a hard time thinking of Koreans having their own martial arts. IMHO, original combat techniques are found wherever there was a need to defend one's property or life. Fighting techniques are not something that was brought to Korea from China or any other place. IMHO, unless it killed you, a good technique observed by ANY person (or group) in need of combat skills was sure to be "picked up" by other practitioners wherever they happened to see it. This is as true now as it was in ancient history. Since we cannot substantiate much of martial art history as we hear it today, it might serve us to use common sense instead. Just like the atomic bomb made the rounds from one country to another, superior fighting techniques found their way into every bag of tricks folks used to defend themselves. Not for one minute would I believe that Chinese or Japanese fighters would NOT use a good Korean fighting technique simply because it was not from their own respective country. When your very life depends on having the best skill (or weapon), you won't care who invented or first used it (or what country it is supposed to have come from). If this was not so, we would not have to worry about North- Koreans having a nuclear device (and means to deliver it). Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 14 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:52:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] TKD Won Nationals Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net 2003 Tae Kwon Do Won Nationals Poomse and gyroogi Friday & Saturday April 18-19, 2003 Weigh-in on Friday, tourny on Saturday University of San Francisco War Memorial Gymnasium 2335 Golden Gate Ave San Francisco, CA For more info contact 707.556.8181, FAX 707.552.6298, email tkdstudio@yahoo.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustutkd1@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest