Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:24:02 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #85 - 18 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. old method of carrying uniform (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 2. Re: Stretching (Art VanVranken) 3. Hap Ki do is complete (Rudy Timmerman) 4. Monopoly (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 5. Old age and training (Rudy Timmerman) 6. Re: TG Dewey's Question About Pelligrini (Ray Terry) 7. Chicago (Rudy Timmerman) 8. Re: Supporting each Other (Troy Trudeau) 9. RE: Folding Method (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 10. Re: Old age and training (chuck@rimshapkido.org) 11. HKD as an add on? (Kirk Koskella) 12. Hapkido = Spin kick (Patrick L) 13. Craig's take on it all (michael tomlinson) 14. Welcome (Ray Terry) 15. Re: Old age and training (Jye nigma) 16. Stretching Article (Jye nigma) 17. Re: Stretching it (Jye nigma) 18. Re: 46 year-old & high kicks (Jye nigma) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:49:25 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] old method of carrying uniform Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sort of... But there is a formal method. Jere R. Hilland www.hapkidoselfdefense.com <> --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Art VanVranken" To: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:52:29 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Stretching Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good views on the over 40/ 50 Bruce. I also started at a late age in TKD. At 54, I find things dont heal real fast. Just gotta go with the flow I guess. I just started reading the paper back book " Martial Arts After 40. The book sold on Amazon .com for $12.95. I need to stay active, cant lead a sedentary life stlye. I try training 4-5 days a week, sometimes 6 if I can squeeze it in. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:57:46 -0800 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hap Ki do is complete Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Alain writes: > Often I hear the comment, "Oh, we do Hapkido too," from someone who > trains in TKD or some other art. The problem is not with people who > have > trained in more than one art, but in that many places teach a few > joint locks > and hoshinsul techniques from a Hapkido curriculum, and then claim > they "do" > or "teach" Hapkido too. It seems that these people do not realize the > fact that Hapkido is a > complete martial art, and not something you just "add" onto another > style. Hello Alain: Well said! I might add that many who teach such "add on" techniques need to understand that the principles of the techniques may vastly differ from the "other" art they teach. As I said once before, you can roller skate or ice skate, but I would hate to try my roller skates on ice. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:58:42 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Monopoly Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In the late 70's Chuck Norris opened a dojang/dojo/whatever, about 1/2 block away from Master Kang's dojang (my teacher then). Now you must realize how few schools Houston had back then. The chain of Black Belt Academy's that taught American karate were opening everywhere and closing just as fast, and the traditional schools were few and far between. Master Kang just shook his head and said that it was very rude of them to do that as you just don't open a school near another. It is just not polite. Chuck taught there once, then two of his students took over and the place closed in 6 months. Jere R. Hilland www.hapkidoselfdefense.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:00:57 -0800 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Old age and training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Chuck writes: > Wait until you reach 55. > > Chuck (a 25 year old trapped in an old man's body) Hello Chuck: I'd have to wait a hell of a long time to get back around to 55 again, I have practiced for almost that long:) I completely understand the trapped mind, and I think this is the common sense Bruce spoke of. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] TG Dewey's Question About Pelligrini To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:26:51 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > 1. In the mid to late 80's he was a high-ranking TKD guy. In the mid to > late 90's, he "resurfaced" as a high-ranking Hapkido guy. I believe list member Master James Allison was on the testing board of one of Mr. P's lower HKD Dan tests, 2nd perhaps. If Master Allison catches this, perhaps he can fill us in on the details... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:04:37 -0800 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Chicago Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jeremy writes: > Please keep me inform on your trip to Chicago this > summer. I would love to attend your seminar. If you > are available to do a seminar on that Saturday as > well, perhaps we can make some arrangements to have > you come in and do another one. Hi Jeremy: I will be in Houston on Saturday, but I plan to be back in Chicago for the Sunday seminar. I lost your email address, so please give me a shout. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:04:09 -0800 (PST) From: Troy Trudeau To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Supporting each Other Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Bruce, GM Timmerman is right, if you havent trained with some of the "Older Guys" yet, You need to, Sometimes we need to put away our differences and just go and train,learn, and take in as much as we can, GM Seo is by far one of the best around , I have trained with him and have been also trained by his sons, they are very good at what they do, they are very attentative to each seminar participant , I have been training for some 32 years now and have seen and experienced alot of material from Kuk Sool to Han Mu Do and the likes, It's all good, we must always empty our cups and constantly refill them over and over again, I always have a good time at seminars, anytime you get an oppertunity to train with GM's such as In Sun Seo, Rudy Timmerman, JR West, Ji Han Jae, we all need to go, it is unfortunate , but we all don't live forever and if you havent trained with theses individuals , you need to, remember we have to continue their legacys and pass it on, as our students too , will pass it on, I am very fortunate to have such a fantastic GM as Rudy Timmerman, He has helped me in so many ways I can't imagine, Maybe one day I will be as knowledgable as the before mentioned GM's, Sincerely, Troy Trudeau www.wtswa.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:22:04 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Folding Method Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, I learned to fold the pants in half, place on spread jacket. Fold in arms, then fold (top to bottom) 1/4 in to center on both sides, then fold in in half. Then fold in half across and tie with belt close to the open end. It is flat and you can tuck your arm through the looped end to carry, or carry by the belt. Folkding is an after class ritual. Danny Dunn <<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 10 From: chuck@rimshapkido.org To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:40:49 -0500 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Old age and training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On 18 Feb 2003 at 16:00, Rudy Timmerman wrote: >Hello Chuck: I'd have to wait a hell of a long time to get back >around to 55 again, I have practiced for almost that long:) >I completely understand the trapped mind, and I think this is the >common sense Bruce spoke of. >Sincerely, Rudy Glad to make your aquaintance Rudy. I'm fairly new to the list and am glad to know that there is a good representation of the age groups here. Looking forward to some good discussions. Chuck --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Kirk Koskella" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:42:59 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] HKD as an add on? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In reading this commentary regarding Hapkido Schools as add on's I would have to agree that there are some schools which mingle some techniques and even imitate Hapkido techniques in an attempt to "satisfy" the student who may see deficiencies in their own art form, or just be curious as to certain techniques viewed elsewhere. My name is Kirk Koskella. I have acted as the Executive Vie President of grand Master Bong Soo Han's International Hapkido Federation since 1996. I am a Taekwondo and Haidong Gumdo practitioner as well. I have been a close friend and confidant of GM Han since meeting 1974 and trained in taekwondo when there were no Hapkido schoolks near me. I travelled to Korea with Master Han and have been fortunate to see many Taekwondo Masters take seriously the adaptation of formal Hapkido to their curriculums. In my schools we do practivce a formal seperate curriculum which has been created by GM Han and demonstrate the differences between kicking, blocking and striking techniques weekly. Generall we teach with an emphasis on Taekwondo Monday and Tuesday classes, Hapkido Wednesday and Thursday with the student earning the right to practice Gumdo on Friday and Saturdays. Properly structured, these artforms complement each other, remain seperate and adds a cross-training benefit which helps the individual practitioner. All Black Belt candidates are sent to Santa Monica for pre-testing and formal testing by GM Han. Regular seminars in all art forms assist in compliance with the appropriate requirements being met... and on many occassions exceeding expectations. GM Han and I have had many discussions through the years and I have been successful in maintaining the position that the serious martial artist can accomplish a solid formal education in Hapkido as well as their original discipline. The novice, or hobbyist seeking solid training adds so much more from the regime which I comment upon here. How otherwise would we be able to speak gratefully to authors such as Joe Hymes - "Zen in the Martial Arts" who have taken the time to train to proficiency under so many well known masters of the martial arts? The desire to train has led many to seek a mastery of more than one discipline. I would like to see more Instructors seem to share their polished skills with those who would hope to claim a knowledge of the individual arts. Hapkido Masters have a proud tradition which has been deemed second class - in terms of what has been brought to prominence. I, for one, can see that "Hapkido" is just coming into it's own... and may well be the martial art of the 21st Century. Hopefully??? I appreciate your commentary. Master Kirk I. Koskella www.song-moo-kwan.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Patrick L" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 14:44:31 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido = Spin kick Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Sims and others, I began practicing Hapkido in approx. 1972 with my GM, Chong S. Kim. We were doing spin kicks up the wazzoo. What WE DON'T DO is a spinning outside (crescent) kick - too easy. That is not to say that the origins of all Hapkido kicking are easy to identify. I am assured the TaeKyon kicking was all neck or lower, at the same time, I am told that the double front, side, RH and spin kicks are all Taekyon too? Oh well, more of the conundrum. Anyone who has really studied kicking (usually a Hapkidoist), knows that low kicks (espicially squatting kicks) present their own problems. Kicks done while in a comfortable stance are the easiest, therefore they do not adequately challenge a serious kicking enthusiast. Don't fall into the trap of trying to define which kick is the best. Find an instructor that knows kicking - then kick until you can't walk - then kick some more. BTW - If any of you are out visiting the Los Angeles area, please contact me - visitors are always welcome. Getting in the Way, Patrick _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 23:53:37 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Craig's take on it all Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Damn bubba you are one observant and very knowledgeable individual. I agree with everything Craig said on the subject. One more thing, I am talking from experience. I was there when JP recieved his 1st dan hapkido black belt in Orange City Florida at Chester Holubecki's Isshin Ryu Karate School from Mike Wollmershauser and even that belt was more of an honorary rank and not based at the time on any testing,, and I have seen him on the mat, I'll leave it at that without starting a new flame war... other than that if you want my opinion,, reread Craig's take on the subject,, it was exactly the way things are,,, hey Craig are you sure your not really a closet Hapkidoist masquerading as a Judoka? Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus --__--__-- Message: 14 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:30:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Welcome Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > My name is Kirk Koskella. I have acted as the Executive Vie President of > grand Master Bong Soo Han's International Hapkido Federation since 1996. I > am a Taekwondo and Haidong Gumdo practitioner as well. Welcome to the list. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:41:08 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Old age and training To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sang H Kim has written a book for martial artist over 40. Jye --- Rudy Timmerman wrote: > Chuck writes: > > Wait until you reach 55. > > > > Chuck (a 25 year old trapped in an old man's body) > > Hello Chuck: I'd have to wait a hell of a long time > to get back around > to 55 again, I have practiced for almost that long:) > I completely understand the trapped mind, and I > think this is the > common sense Bruce spoke of. > Sincerely, Rudy > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 16 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:54:28 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Stretching Article Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Stretching--When Is It Too Much Of A Good Thing? By David Mazor Massachusetts State Director (Special thanks to Dr. Stephen M. Pribut) We have been taught since our earliest days in Taekwondo that stretching is the key to increased range of motion, easier movement, and injury prevention. In recent years, many of the traditional stretches that were ballistic in nature (meaning you bounced when you did them) have been shown to be dangerous and have now been discarded. In addition, other potentially injurious stretches such as the Hurdler’s Stretch (which places undo pressure on the knees) have been modified to bring the desired results of stretching without the potential of causing the body harm. But, can something as beneficial to Taekwondo training as proper stretching technique still be harmful in certain situations? Dr. Stephen M. Pribut, a Washington, DC Podiatrist, who practices podiatric medicine and surgery with special interests in Sports Medicine and Biomechanics, points out that even something as beneficial to an athlete as stretching can be overdone. “Surveys of runners have shown that there seem to be two types of runners who have reported more injuries than others. Those who do not stretch very much and those who spend an inordinate amount of time stretching both seem to have significantly more injuries. This is not necessarily a causal relationship. The fact that a survey has shown that an individual who spends much longer than his peers stretching responds to a survey question reporting many injuries might also imply that he is stretching in response to his injuries. But then again, too much of a good thing might not be good. Because your flexibility and muscle elasticity can diminish from time off due to injury, martial artists are often eager to return to their stretching routine. However, Dr. Pribut warns not to begin stretching while injured as this can turn a minor injury into a chronic injury. “The reason you should not start stretching with an acutely sore body part is that your stretching will probably contribute to continuing to tear the muscle or tendon fibers during your stretching of it,” notes Dr. Pribut. As martial artists, we often feel that we can never train too hard, and like all athletes we want to come back from our injuries as quickly as possible. Dr. Pribut offers a great reminder that even something as beneficial as stretching can be harmful if overdone, or if done before our body has recovered from injury. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 17 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:01:52 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Stretching it To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net How many people on this list use herbal liniments for ailments? If you don't dit da jow is a great liniment to put on a bruised area. I use heat treatment on bruises, and they heal faster. Jye --- Rudy Timmerman wrote: Bruises on top of bruises DO look ugly. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 18 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:11:10 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] 46 year-old & high kicks To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Increase your Flexibility The following article is based on the video: Flexibility, Reflexes, Coordination by Sang H. Kim. The above article is copyrighted by the author. All rights reserved. Special thanks to Turtle Press for the use of this article. Stretch every time you exercise. The only way to improve your flexibility is through consistent stretching exercises. Every muscle is subject to the myotatic reflex (stretch reflex) which opposes changes in muscle length, especially sudden or extreme changes. When a muscle lengthens beyond a certain point, the myotatic reflex causes it to tighten and attempt to shorten. This is the tension you feel during stretching exercises. The myotatic reflex is desirable because it prevents, in many cases, muscle strains and tears. Without it your muscles would be allowed to overextend and tear easily. But it is also undesirable in cases where it prevents you from fully using your body. Through stretching, deconditioning of the myotatic reflex takes place. Little by little, you teach your muscles a new limit of safe extension. This is why stretching must be slow and consistent. If you overstretch and injure the muscle, you have to go back to a lower level of flexibility and start over. Set your stretching goals over a period of weeks or months, not days, for best results. There are three types of stretching: static, dynamic and ballistic. Ballistic stretching means bobbing, bouncing or using some type of moving pressure to stretch the target muscles. Ballistic stretching is not recommended because it activates the myotatic reflex and causes the muscles to tense, rather than relax. Ballistic stretching has a high risk of injury. Dynamic stretching means moving the muscle through its full range of movement. Dynamic stretching leads to greater flexibility in movement but should be done with caution so it does not become ballistic stretching. To maintain a correct dynamic stretch, focus on smooth, even movements that do not shock the muscle. Examples of dynamic stretches are knee raises, leg raises, arm circles, and trunk circles. Static stretching is a controlled stretch. A specific muscle or muscle group is extended to the point of feeling slight pain and held in t hat position for ten to sixty seconds. During static stretching, concentrate on relaxing the target muscles and breathing deeply. Begin your flexibility workout with several minutes of gross motor activity to increase your blood flow. Increased blood flow improves the suppleness of the muscles. Then move to joint loosening exercises followed by dynamic stretches to the get the muscles moving freely. If you are working only on flexibility, do static stretches next. If you are training, interspersing periods of static stretching throughout the workout works best because the range of motion increases as the body warms up. Do some light static stretches at the end of every workout to relax and refresh your muscles. CAUTIONS Do not overstretch. A mild sensation of burning or pulling should be felt in the target muscles. It should be uncomfortable but not unbearable. Avoid bouncing during a stretch. Bouncing causes the muscles to tighten and heightens the risk of injury. Follow instructions for exercises carefully. There is right and wrong way to stretch every muscle. Good flexibility exercises are designed to provide a maximum stretch with a minimum risk of injury. Do gravity assisted stretches with caution and only after fully warming up. Gravity assisted stretches are exercises like splits that use the force of gravity to increase the pressure on the stretch. You should never feel pain in your joints during stretching exercises. If you do, stop immediately and discontinue that exercise. When doing flexibility exercises that require bending at the waist, always bend from the hip, not the lower back. The lower back is extremely vulnerable to injuries. Always increase strength and flexibility together. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustutkd1@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest