Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 03:01:48 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #98 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Togetherness (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 2. Two weeks till Jackson (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 3. 2003 California State Tae Kwon Do Junior Olympics (Ray Terry) 4. Re: A Gathering (Chosondo@aol.com) 5. Organizations (Rudy Timmerman) 6. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Seminar_Support_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 7. Seminars and cooperation (Rudy Timmerman) 8. Support (Rudy Timmerman) 9. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_And_lets_share_the_wealth..._?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 10. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Scaling_Down?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:01:38 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Togetherness Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<<... The GMs of Korean parentage all stick together, but we don't.>>> I do not recall who wrote that. But I am going to have to disagree strongly. With 29 years (this spring) of practicing the Korean martial arts, I will state from experience that the above statement is not true. Jere R. Hilland www.hapkidoselfdefense.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:02:55 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Two weeks till Jackson Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I would like to share part of my monthly newsletter with everyone as we get ready for this 3 day hapkido seminar: 1. Try not to work out with someone from your own dojang. You can always work out with them. Partner up with someone you don't know. 2. Try to store as much to muscle memory as you can. Continue to practice the technique at hand as much as possible to let it sink in. 3. Say hello or 'howdy' to everyone. As of this writing, I am scheduled to teach cane techniques, so say hello! 4. Beware of buffet's, they can be habit forming! 5. Have fun! Jere R. Hilland www.hapkidoselfdefense.com <<>> --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:38:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] 2003 California State Tae Kwon Do Junior Olympics Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net 2003 California State Tae Kwon Do Junior Olympics Northern Region Saturday March 29, 2003 San Jose Civic Auditorium 408 Almaden Blvd San Jose, CA USTU Referee Certification Seminar Friday March 28, 2003 1:00 PM - 9:00 PM San Jose Hilton Hotel Coach's Seminar San Jose Hilton Hotel 300 Almaden Blvd San Jose, CA For more info contact Choi's Institute of Taekwondo, 3248-B South White Road, San Jose, CA 408.238.1666 FAX 408.238.2344 Southern Region Saturday May 10, 2003 Bren Events Center, UC Irvine 100 Bren Events Center Irvine, CA USTU Referee Certification Seminar Friday, May 9, 2003 1:00 PM - 9:00 PM Hilton Hotel, Irvine Coach's Seminar Hilton Hotel, Irvine Friday, May 9, 2003 6:00 PM - 8:00 PM For more info contact CSTA Headquarters, 26012 Marguerite Pkwy #A Mission Viejo, CA 949.348.2977 FAX 949.348.2837 --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Chosondo@aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:41:47 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: A Gathering Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 2/23/2003 6:28:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > As far as the organization you envisioned was concerned, I supported > you on that as well. Again, I saved every post on that and, looking > back over them, I see that several of the folks you mentioned tried to > be of assistance; however, you put that on hold due to a personal issue > you had to take care of. Hello Rudy: Thank you for your thoughtful response to my. However, I had to put the event on hold simply because of very poor response. Maybe you can pull this off. I will make myself available for any assisstance you might need. Thank you. Best regards, Ian A. Cyrus --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:43:41 -0800 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Organizations Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dr. Covington writes: > Isn't this the purpose behind Kwan Jang RudyTimmerman's National > Korean Martial Arts Association? WHy not unite behind something > already here? The purpose of my organizing NKMAA back in the early seventies was a direct result of the split between some other organizations I was affiliated with, and my goal was to provide an opportunity for Korean martial artists in our area to train and work together without politics. I had already been part of working with the late Master Robert Dalgleish on forming the Canadian Black Belt Alliance, so I had a bit of experience in this area. NKMAA, at that time, was just a simple organization dedicated to get rid of politics and simply create an opportunity to train with others who had been affected by the split of my Instructors' orgs. It was not until I was subjected to another round of bad politics that I revived the old NKMAA. At the same time, I found that many others were in similar situations, and so NKMAA has become an organization that comforts those who have been treated less than stellar by their former Masters. I do not encourage people to leave their organization, nor do I grant rank to just anyone who applies. I recognize the certification of some organizations at face value (JRs certification would be one of those), and all others will need to prove their skills to me. As far as recognizing new organizations, I do not. I simply am not qualified to even consider it. As far as rank. I also try to be traditional in my approach to rank, and I stick to the once prevalent rules of time and experience. I was granted an eight Dahn by my late Master at the time he appointed me as leader of KSB. Since he was very much alive at that time, I did not even think of assuming that role, because I felt that this was rightfully his to the end. I will never be a 9th Dahn, because the only person who was in my view able to do so has gone to the big dojang above. I do not profess to know it all, I make mistakes, but I DO try to be honest and forthright. I do not hunt out people or recruit them to join NKMAA, and there are several folks on this list (Bruce is one) who can vouch for the fact that I never asked them to join NKMAA even though I was glad to assist with what little I know about martial arts. If asked about NKMAA, I will tell them what we are all about. If not, I won't mention it. I do not try to be the King of the Castle as suggested by Ian, and I DO support others (like JR) who work hard to do a good job. One last thing. I do not ask anyone on this list to use the list as a promotion tool. Each person who makes a comment about me or about NKMAA does so without any pressure from me. In fact, it embarrasses me most of the time. I see the DD as a great tool for Korean martial artists to spout off about the things they like or dislike. I have agreed and disagreed with just about everyone on the list, but it is all done with one thing in mind -- to promote, educate, and share my experiences of more than 50 years of training. I am glad Ray gives us that opportunity. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:04:24 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Seminar_Support_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Rudy: "....I am working on hosting a yearly event in the Michigan/Ohio area at this very moment, because that area is accessible to people from Canada, Michigan, Ohio, PA, and Illinois. Perhaps we might even see some Indiana folks there:) As it stands, I will rely on my own members first, and I'll hold the welcome mat out for all others who are interested. In time, lots of time, it might even become popular. Having hosted more than thirty annual tournaments, I know from experience that such events don't just happen. To make a seminar in this region a success, it will take a generous amount of word-of-mouth advertising, and that will only come if I deserve it....." As I mentioned in my earlier post, I do not believe we need another organization. I think we have enough. I am not a member of either your organization or JR's if it comes to that. That doesn't stop me from wanting to support both your efforts. In a fantasy I imagine being able to go to a "gathering" once a quarter--- with Jackson in March and August and your event worked in alternately. I can only imagine that the KMA community (especially the Hapkido Arts) could benefit from that sort of regular community. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 20:23:39 -0800 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Seminars and cooperation Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jeremy writes: > I believe 4 or 5 instructors to perform would be a great start. > If this even is successful then we could add on or > change out instructors as needed. For the first time > out I would like to have representatives from HKD, > KSW, HRD, TKD (WTF and ITF), Chosondo and Kumdo > (Haidong and KKA). Hello Jeremy: I'd like to give you a word of caution about your ambitions. Just get your calculator out, and you'll soon see why. Four or five Masters travel expenses to Chicago and back. If the event is two or three days, add in lodging and meals. If these folks are professionals, add in 4 or 5 times three days wages. Now add your venue, insurance etc. etc. As you can see, the idea is great, but is is one where a shirt can be lost in a heartbeat. I can see a start of one or two Masters and some of their best students. I can see it happen in something less grand than the O'Hare Hilton. I can see it happen with a few Masters who live nearby, and can only see it happen if the Masters you choose are not seeking personal glory at the expense of other presenters. Not an easy task my friend, but it CAN be done with some good organizational skills. One last thing to think about. If, as the promoter, you are not the highest rank in the venture, how will you deal with the strong personalities of the Masters you invite? I have seen too many great ideas go up in smoke, because the invited guests had their own personal agendas in mind. Without the authority of rank, the poor promoter was simply ignored. This in turn caused a rift among the presenters, and the whole thing turned into a mess. I give you the problems at the last gathering as a small example. In closing, I am not trying to be the snag in the line, I am merely concerned for you. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 20:30:25 -0800 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Support Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Mc Henry writes: > Bruce, isn't that already what Master JR West is doing in Jackson MS? Hello Dennis: I believe the intention is NOT to interfere with JRs events, As I said earlier, the event I am now planning would look for a time that is not conflicting with the Jackson seminars. I would hate to miss those myself:) I think the idea is to offer something closer than 2000 clicks one way, thereby making good training available to people who would never be able to make it to Jackson anyway. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:14:55 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_And_lets_share_the_wealth..._?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dennis: "....Bruce, isn't that already what Master JR West is doing in Jackson MS?...." Yep, and thats exactly my point. Such an effort IS a viable activity, and I am only advocating that we either expand the effort started in Jackson to the Upper Midwest, or, model its approach farther North. In the case of Master Wests' event, he has made it abundantly clear a number of times that it is not his intent to recruit people to his particular organization, and the fact that he backs this up with behavior, I think, helps people to feel so comfortable at his event. Ergo: the success of the Internationale. The view that I was pressing was the idea that an organizational backing COULD be a benefit, but is not absolutely necessary. And I certainly would not advocate the development of yet another organization to coordinate such a seminar effort closer to our neighborhood. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:36:38 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Scaling_Down?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jeremy: ".....The hardest thing for me is to figure who not to invite to perform a seminar. :) What criteria would we use to choose who should conduct a seminar? 7th dan and above? Any ideas on this would be great......" Let me say again. I think we could move in one of two directions. One direction would be to back the effort of an established approach or organization. Rudy mentioned his intention to try to put something together and I think this is one way to do it. Such an event could be rotated through a number of select cities or (as in the case of Jackson) be identified at regular times of the year at the same location each year. The second approach would be to "reinvent the wheel" by either attempting to organize such an event to the Chicago area or relocate an existing event to the Chicago area. In either case, I am thinking that the overall design and intent of the event might need to be a bit more modest. Certainly it could be grown into a larger event. The Internationale in Jackson, I am sure, did not start off with attendence at 300 to 400. I think we are up to the "18th" (?)event. I would be very much intersted in hearing opinions on whether one would want to support an existing venue or build a new venue from the ground up based on the approach of an existing event or organization. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustutkd1@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest