Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:24:03 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #100 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. TSD Dojang in/around Lansing, MI (Charles Richards) 2. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Making_a_Choice_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 3. Jang Mu Won (michael tomlinson) 4. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Misquote?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 5. Re: what to do with the bricks (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 6. USKMAF Jackson Seminar (Wicker, H. Keith) 7. School invovement (J.R. West) 8. Broken bricks (Rudy Timmerman) 9. Seminars (Rudy Timmerman) 10. Hitting the mat (Rudy Timmerman) 11. Pyong_ahn forms (Merwin, John D) 12. Re: More on Chicago Seminars (Chosondo@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 05:17:09 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: Dojang Digest Subject: [The_Dojang] TSD Dojang in/around Lansing, MI Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have a student who is looking for a good TSD dojang in Okemos, Michigan (just east of East Lansing), zip code 48864. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Please feel free to email me privately. Thank You, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 07:31:59 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Making_a_Choice_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jeremy: "....I agree that we can have two directions in which to take this. Re-inventing the wheel would be the hardest of them, but would give us more "freedom" if you will, to make it a venue of a common vision per se. However, building off of something that is already happening (example GM West's gatherings) would be a little bit easier to do. So which way would you rather take it?....." My personal preference is to use an existing venue and extend or interact with that venue. If this were to mean that we spin-off off the Jackson Internationale and JR's organization albeit located in the Chicago area then I would advocate working through Jere out of Harrison as he would know Master Wests' venue better than anyone locally and would be my vote for liaison. Along this line there is also Rudys' idea of organizing his event though in the Ohio rather than the Illinois area. If it were possible to have this relocated to Chicago that would be fine, but I am no stranger to traveling. In THAT case I would probably advocate for Kevin as a liaison with Rudys' efforts as I would characterize Kevin being to Rudy what Jere would be to JR. In any case there is a crying need for authentic and thorough education in KMA in the Upper Midwest. It remains only to have such an effort organized and for people to know clearly that the interests of the attending practitioners are placed well-above the profit motive. BTW: Just a thought: I think it serves the best interests of the KMA community that we continue to "think out loud" here on the Digest as we move through this process. I am going to bet that there are a s++tload of lurkers out there who have thought of moving things in this direction for quite a while but simply couldn't imagine how to get their fingers around it. Perhaps as we move through the process others will either make notes of how we are doing this, or pitch-in to help out where they see a space. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:59:56 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Jang Mu Won Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Patrick writes: <> Now that is what I am talking about, this is Hapkido courtesy in its best form and this should be a model for everyone! Patrick has committed to going out of his way to help someone on their search for Hapkido, and is being very generous monetarily but will NOT give away anything else,, I love it. This is the true essence of true Martial Arts and teaching in my opinion.. it says "hey I will help you FIND the path to Hapkido but YOU will have to travel it yourself and pay your dues to accomplish everything else,, spoken like a true martial artist Patrick,,, good job... Michael Tomlinson www.zdragon.bitbytenibble.com _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 07:46:46 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Misquote?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Garrett: "....."....I am working on hosting a yearly event in the Michigan/Ohio area at this very moment, because that area is accessible to people from Canada, Michigan, Ohio, PA, and Illinois. Perhaps we might even see some Indiana folks there:) As it stands, I will rely on my own members first, and I'll hold the welcome mat out for all others who are interested." Master Sims, do not forget about us way out west here in Minnesota. Thanks......" Actually, that was me quoting Rudys' sentiments, but your point is the crux of our effort. People from many of the smaller schools (and budgets)might be able to make a few events if they were closer, rather than only one event if its at a great distance. The expense is in the travel and the over- night accomodations. I once had a fantasy about using a school gymnasium and then having everyone crash in the gym overnight, eating out locally. I am not sure what the logistics of this would be, but I can't believe that it would be worse than having a bunch of people coming in from all over and staying at separate hotels/motels. I have seen various colleges and High Schools use this format for "retreats" where people are required to come from great (6-8 hours) distances. The participants are "locked-in" for the night and this goes on all weekend. In fact, as I write this, perhaps this might be something worth checking out at the college I instruct at just to see what is entailed. More to come........... Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:27:49 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: what to do with the bricks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<<<<<> They make a nice border for outdoor gardens.  :) Take care Chris "from CT">>>>>>> as a joke, i took one of my broken bricks, wrote "sweetheart brick" across the two pieces in large permanent marker, gift wrapped the two pieces separately, and gave them to my brother and sister-in-law as Christmas presents. we had a good laugh and then they got to open their "real" presents. what surprised me was: next time i went to their house and we were socializing on the back porch, there in the ground were the sweetheart bricks. i mentioned that they didnt have to keep them and it wouldnt hurt my feelings if they tossed them in the trash. apparently my sister-in-law would have no such thing...lol. she loved them. take care, melinda :) Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy www.cjmaa.com 1-573-673-2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply www.cjmas.com 1-877-847-4072 --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Wicker, H. Keith" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:01:44 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] USKMAF Jackson Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To all members, I am already getting "pumped" for the seminar in Jackson in a couple of weeks. I have always had a great time and learned so much at Master West's seminars. All of Master West's black belts and session instructors have a great attitude and want to help all participants learn. No question is too simple, and believe me, I have asked many questions from his black belts. Also I just want to thank Master West for all the support he has given me...I have a small part time school in USKMAF with currently only 6 students. Master West has always quickly answered every one of my emails and treated me and my students with great hospitality every time we have visited. That kind of support means a lot to me. I look forward to visiting with all the DD members when in Jackson. Keith Wicker's Korean Martial Arts, USKMAF League City, TX --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "J.R. West" To: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:37:55 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] School invovement Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net . I am > looking for other examples of this from other Do-Jangs across the country. > If any of you have any specific examples like this that I could quote you in > my paper, I would be greatfull if you would email them to me @ We have always tried to be involved with charitable causes and community involvement, including visiting vets at the VA hospital and a myriad of others, but my favorite one was about 1995, when one of my black belts asked that we get involved with the "Walk For The Cure" for the American Diabetes Foundation. This particular student was on the board of directors for the ADF, and we agreed to help. As many of you remember, during that period, my wife (the meanest woman on the planet), was experiencing some rather severe health problems but she jumped right in asking for donations and getting other students and their families to register to make the 10K walk and raise contributions. To make a long story short, West's HapKiDo had the most money raised and the largest team walking for several years, but right before that first walk, we learned that the cause of my wife's health problems was undiagnosed Type I diabetes. It's nice to think that some of the money that she raised or was responsible for raising, may one day contribute to her cure...........J. R. West www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:07:14 -0800 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Broken bricks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Chris writes: > They (broken bricks) make a nice border for outdoor gardens. :) Hi Chris: As a flower lovin Dutchman I should have thought of that:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:31:49 -0800 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Seminars Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce writes: > Using my post to Jeremy as a springboard indulge me for a minute > regarding > the possibility of establishing another national event albeit farther > North. > > In my post I suggested that one could make a choice between having a > central location at regular times of the year or rotate the location > through a selection of cities at selected times of the year. In the > former > case, the Internationale is a good example, where in the latter case > the > standard personality seminars such a those by GM Ji or others come to > mind. > Do you have thoughts on the advantages or disadvantages of either of > these > venues? Hello Bruce and Jeremy: Location is an important aspect of planning seminars. For example, I received cost comparisons of some venues in the Ann Arbor area form GM Humesky, and I was blown away by the fees hotels in that area expect. We are talking thousands of dollars for a weekend, and that compares with a few hundred dollars for a similar weekend in the city where I live. The Chicago seminar at the O'Hare Hilton no doubt cost an arm and a leg as well. This means that the promoter would need to charge a high entry fee. This in turn limits participation (especially for Canadians when exchange rates are in the 50% or more range. When a seminar costs $80.00 - 150.00 per person for a weekend, and you add the flight/drive, the hotel, the restaurant food, etc. to this fee, you look at a potential $500.00 or more weekend. No wonder participation is hard to come by. > > In that same post I commented on the (in)advisability of perhaps being > too > ambitious in organizing the venue. Do you have thoughts on how wide a > range > of arts you would want to represent and how many presenters would be > nominal to start with? I strongly suggest to begin with ONE presenter who can bring some decent students with him or her to add to the total package without adding to the total cost. There are some very good fourth dahns who would love to get their feet wet but would not be in a position to charge a fee yet. When the event grows in popularity, you will find some higher dahns who would probably come just to support a friend. > Finally, and perhaps just as a service to others would you (and maybe > even > JR) like to speak to the nature of your organization regarding > membership? > I know you mentioned a bit of the history in your last post but I > think its > hard for some folks to imagine an event that could be SPONSORED by an > organization without necessarily pressing for membership IN that > organization, yes? Perhaps it would be a service, if in counter-point > both > you and JR would take some time to talk about what membership in your > respective organizations is all about. I started NKMAA back in the early 70s as a Gvt registered non profit org. The idea was to bring Korean style martial artists together for training and support, because in the North we are somewhat isolated. As time went by, the org grew into a multi-nation org with a mandate to assist those Korean style martial artists who somehow found themselves without a Master to assist them in advancing in rank, training, or meaningful certification. The org continues to grow, as more and more people get disgusted with paying for rank they never receive or the high prices charged Some orgs place so many restrictions on their members that it is difficult for them to survive. I call these things the "politics" of the orgs, and I stay away from them. NKMAA does not interfere with the policies, prices, and other aspects that maintain the autonomy of its members' schools. We only supply those things the individuals themselves request. I neither suggest nor pressure members into purchasing ANYTHING. Some members use all the services we have, some simply join as an individual ($25.00 lifetime membership under black, and $35.00 for black belts). Members enjoy free training at our school during normal hours and some selected workshops. They can test here, or I can test them at their own location. They can use our certification or I simply register their rank from other legitimate orgs without them using NKMAA certificates. For some of my long distance members, I use video tape/conferencing etc. to assist them with anything ranging from advise on curriculum development, hosting special events, and any other thing I might have learned along the way. In other words, I am an open book, and members can take or leave anything they wish from the pages in that book. My reputation means the world to me, and I do not advance people who IMHO are not ready for a particular rank (in the same way as many of you do in your schools). I DO use a timeline of training/advancing as well as skill testing; however, I also take into consideration all of the other things pertaining to rank advancement (just like you all do in your own schools). This system is not perfect, and I have on occasion trusted folks who abused my trust (as most of us have had to deal with). NKMAA certification is meaningful because of this scrutiny. While there will always be some who think I am a bag of wind, I am comfortable in the knowledge that I have helped a lot of people. I also know that most other (highly respected) orgs simply collect the fees and NEVER even see the skill level of the people they pass; in fact, they can't be bothered to look at any of the things I use to determine "earned" advancement. Whenever people wish to register with NKMAA, I use their bio and copies of their certification to determine wether or not I will accept them. If the certification comes from an organization that is generally thought of as heading that system (such as Kukkiwon etc.), I accept it as proof. If it comes from an organization that is NOT thought of as legitimate, I require proof of skill in addition. When, IMHO, the applicant lacks the generally accepted skills for that rank, I advise him or her of that. They then have a choice to begin additional training or go elsewhere. In any case, I do NOT advance people in a rank higher than they originally registered without demonstrating appropriate time and required skill. I do NOT register new arts, I do NOT endorse "Heads of Family", and I do NOT advance anyone in a rank higher than I was authorized to by my late Grand Master. For rank advancement in Korean arts other than what I am qualified in, I seek advise from some of the highest (non political) Masters and Grand Masters I have befriended over the more than fifty years I have trained. More importantly, I will encourage prospective applicants to seek out qualified Masters who can do more for them than I can, and I am honored to have a highly respected Master such as JR West refer people to me if he feels it appropriate. I take this as a compliment. Rather than jealously guarding my turf, I will encourage my members to support good people like JR, and you will see an ever growing number of them at JRs seminar. I do this, because my students and NKMAA members are free to make choices. If they can find a better solution to their needs, I am all for it. As with anything else in this world, there are some people whom I have never seen who claim to have received rank from me. Others claim they belong to NKMAA and do not. Mostly I find out about this somewhere along the line, but little can be done about it other than using my website to counter these claims. Mostly, people who know me will trust in my integrity first, and ask me about these things before believing them. I tried my best to give you a short overview of what NKMAA is about, and I welcome questions via my email address so we do not use up DD space. Sorry for the long post Ray, but there was a lot of stuff to answer. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:46:23 -0800 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hitting the mat Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master DeWitt writes: > you did not seem to embarrassed when you dropped me to the floor > at your DoJang over this past weekend. I even thought I had seen a > bit of a > smile. Thank you for the weekend of training Sir. Hello Master DeWitt: Glad to see you made it back in one piece. as far as hitting the mat, I did mention the blood, sweat, and tears:) I am glad you enjoyed the session, and I admire your desire to participate in such events despite the long and treacherous drive. I was truly surprised to see you at JRs seminar last year -- that is what I call Jung Shin:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Merwin, John D" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:34:46 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Pyong_ahn forms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net try this web site it might help http://www.rlma.org/jujitsu/origins1.html CIMA [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef] --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Chosondo@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:11:52 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: More on Chicago Seminars Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Rudy: I apologize if I gave the impression that you reneged on a commitment. I was just trying to point out how incredibly difficult it is to get folks together. Thanks for your response. Ian A. Cyrus In a message dated 2/25/2003 5:57:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Hello Ian. Thanks for clearing up the possible idea that I did not > wish to help you. The way I read your post, someone might have gotten > the idea that I reneged on a promise to appear, and my reputation means > a lot to me. Mind you, my best intentions have been thwarted by the > weather. This was the case with GM Seo seminar in Chicago where the > roads were closed to all traffic. Alas, that is not uncommon in our > area. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustutkd1@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest