Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:17:04 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #102 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Walk for the cure: (Rudy Timmerman) 2. Herding cats (Rudy Timmerman) 3. What to do with the bricks. (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 4. printed paper via the poobah (rich hodder) 5. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Bonding_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 6. Re: printed paper via the poobah (Ray Terry) 7. Invitation (Raymond Navarro) 8. Seminar Space (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 9. Places to Have seminars, etc. (bob smith) 10. Korean Short Story Index (Ray Terry) 11. Upper MidWest HapKiDo seminar (J.R. West) 12. Sport TKD calender (Charles Richards) 13. Big Seminars (Charles Richards) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:54:19 -0800 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Walk for the cure: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net JR writes: > It's nice to think that some of > the money that she raised or was responsible for raising, may one day > contribute to her cure.......... JR, I think many people who have gotten to know you and your lovely wife would walk a long, long way for that cure. I hope Mrs Master West will be able to say hi to us when we arrive in Jackson. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 00:11:44 -0800 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Herding cats Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ian writes: > I apologize if I gave the impression that you reneged on a commitment. > I was > just trying to point out how incredibly difficult it is to get folks > together. Ian, no need to apologize my friend. I probably read that wrong, but I wanted to make sure others did not read it the same way I did. I look forward to the day when we can try this again. On the subject of herding cats (I love that one:), it seems a shame that so many people will tell you they'll come, but when the chips are down they are nowhere to be found. It seems that many folks don't think promises mean all that much, and the first thing that gets in the way is enough to change their minds. I am sure they realize that this is a tremendous problem for organizers, but that certainly does not seem to make a difference. Like JR said, the up front cost of organizing such an event is beyond imagination for most. As one who has organized more than thirty tournaments and even more seminars, I completely understand the worries you have. This is why I cautioned Jeremy and Bruce. Having lost several shirts along the way, I say it again. Don't overdo it the first time around. To Mac: I also look forward to working together in Houston this Summer Mac. I thank Kat for making this possible, and I hope she will enjoy the support she has given others along the way. See you in Jackson. To Melinda: Broken bricks for gifts. Hmmmm, it is getting better all the time:) At last, I will have something for my black belts this Christmas. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 07:29:57 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] What to do with the bricks. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net KJN Timmerman, What about a nice cobble drive, walk or a patio? At my last house I make a nice cobble walk to the front door. Now I discourage students from breaking masonery. Danny Dunn <<<< Now all I gotta do is figure out what to do with the bricks:) Sincerely, Rudy>>>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "rich hodder" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:09:32 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] printed paper via the poobah Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear GM Poobah Terry, could you give me Dan prices for Tactical Combat Large Tooth Rodent Tossing Certification ? price is no object!!! Humbly , RichGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:37:11 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Bonding_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Troy: "....The need for a Northern Region National Seminar is evident, and GM Timmerman is the GM that we should all follow in this quest, if we all put our heads together and support one another, this will work....." I really liked the tenor of your post and I think it speaks to the heart of the matter we are discussing. Yes, each of us has our affiliations and memberships, and I don't think that anyone would argue that those loyalties deserve to be respected. What I am reading in your post is the importance of being able to work within the parameters of existing agencies instead of always formulating some new organization. Both Rudy and JR have sound organizational networks, and proven philosophical approaches. I have yet to find anything in either organization that flys in the face of my connection with WHF, for instance. There is, though, some part of me that knows that there is a risk when securing membership in a Korean organization. IMO there is a risk that a person such as myself--- born and bred in the US-- will always be seen as somehow less skilled or qualified in understanding the heart of my art simply because I do not hail from the Korean culture. I don't believe this is my own S**t as I have, on occasion, actually heard Korean nationals suggest as much to me. To counter this, perhaps it is of some service to be able to network with organizations dedicated to KMA but springing from the US culture. In this way, perhaps it is possible to embody the spirit of the KMA without confusing that with becoming a "good Korean" first. I know a scant few who are interested in learning Korean language and culture as part and parcel of the KMA they study. In my own experience I have found that often times cultural deference and nomeclature in the Korean language actually stymies communication among practitioner. This is not unlike the way in which American Buddhism is working to find its own voice and identity rather than simply ape the rituals and structures of Japanese, Korean or Chinese traditions. The other thing I was glad to see was no mention of commerce in your post. I can't believe that anyone on this NET doesn't know of my passionate aversion to commerce in the KMA. It may come as something of a surprise, then, to hear me say that the aversion is not against commerce per se but against misplaced priorities which make earning a dollar more important than whether or not an activity is conducted. I have witnessed more than a few local events cancelled simply because the promoter did the math and found out that they might not make the profit they thought they might. To my way of thinking we are in the education business, and in the US culture, unfortunately, education is not a huge money-maker. I'm not saying that you can't make money, only that to refuse to perform a service simply because it is not financially rewarding sends the wrong kind of message. On this Net we have railed against people who sell certs and licenses, pushed questionable affiliations and proposed ersatz arts and events. I also like your solution. I think the key is to back those limited numbers of organizations or personalities who have demonstrated a proven track record of providing what KMA practitioners are looking for. If it comes down to the next step I am guessing that it would be to determine what organization would provide this service. In my own case I would press for the WHF but my sense is that GM Myung, for all of his fine qualities, would be predisposed towards only supporting his own art -- Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido. I would also suggest that the same of GM Ji for Sin Mu Kwan, or GM Han for the IHF or even Dr Kimm of the Hanmudo. Ian has a Choson-do organization which is relatively new, dynamic and liberal in its approach. My guess is that we would need an organization with a longer track record. Hackworth has an organization, as does Pelligrini, but I am afraid there is simply too much controversy with both individuals to build a sound foundation on which to construct an on-going effort. Furthermore, I am not sure that there is any other KMA organization which could provide a foundation, less some personal recruitment agenda. What that seems to leave us with are either Rudys' organization or JR's and for the moment it would almost seem that this might be an issue that would need to be worked out at THEIR level rather than at ours. Whatever the out come of that effort, I am guessing that it would behoove us to support the result as having proceeded from understandings arrived at by those two gentlemen and being in the best interests of everyone concerned, yes? FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] printed paper via the poobah To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 07:11:11 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Dear GM Poobah Terry, > could you give me Dan prices for Tactical Combat Large Tooth Rodent Tossing > Certification ? > price is no object!!! > Humbly , For you my freind I will forward my very special price list. Of course you must understand that it takes more ink to print a 2 than it does to print a 1, and more to print a 4 than it does to print a 3, etc., etc. So the very special price list you will see increases exponentially as the Dan # increases. But I believe you will really like the TCLTRT certs and they contain many pretty pictures and forged signatures. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:21:16 -0800 (PST) From: Raymond Navarro To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Invitation Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi 'tg dewey' and be blessed. I beleive that you are or sound to be the type of people that we are looking for ! I also have thanked Ray for his sincerity and welness. To you I am SabomNim Ramon Navarro 4th Dan and have been teaching SongMooKwan HapKiDo for 26 years with and for Grand Master Park, SongIL 9th Dan (for 13 and a half years and have been almost 13 years teching independantly) and direct student of Grand Master Ji, HanJae 10th Dan and concidered the Father of mothern HapKiDo. We are here in the country of Panama, Central America (were the Panama Canal is at) and will be having a seminar to oficialice Master Roy king's organization with us for him to be our representative in the US (since he got to the Dan levels with us it the early 80's) and have a seminar in April 26& 27, 2003 in Beckley, West Virginia, USA. I desided to invite you when you said you wanted to see were would you find what you would deside to be for you. I am incahrge of making SongMooKwan HapKiDo around the world. Now we have Master Roy king in Beckley WV; also have a group in the country of colombia. The cost to the seminar is $.150.00 per person. Master King's e-mail is: roy_king25801@yahoo.com You and anyone else is welcome if can coordinate your travel. For mor details feel free to contact our host for the seminar : Mr. Roy king. HAP Ramon Navarro HapKiDo SabomNim SongMooKwan HapKiDo Panama City Panama. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:40:46 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Seminar Space Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce, and the others who are looking for some options for affordable seminar space, expenses. Our org does a couple of things. The first is what you mentioned. That is in some cases, our org has schools/clubs affiliated with colleges and universities. They are able to act as a school sponser for an event, making the training space available either free or for a small fee. Another thing we do for some summer camps/seminars is look for camps of various organizations that use rental to fill in for between times to help them pay the bills. We have several facilities in the southeast ranging from state boy scout camps to easter seal camps to quasi-government recreational facilities. Many of these have reasonable dorms and kitchen facilities, and we rent the training space and dorm space as a package deal. They more often than not have enough private cottages or private rooms to cover special guests and the like. The advantage is that lodging and meal expenses are fixed and can be planned for. They are usually self-contained, so everyone stays and trains together. The staffs and managers usually like to see us come back once we have been to a location once, and the kitchen staff often go out of their way to prepare great meals. The down side is that these areas tend be be a drive out of town, so people coming in by air either need a rental car, or we often rent vans and or charter our own transport to and from the airport. All in all, not plush but reasonable accomidations. But a good opportunity to make exceptional training affordable for everyone. For example, friday afternoon, saturday and sunday until noon, for $100 per person expense to break even. Danny Dunn <<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "bob smith" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:39:00 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Places to Have seminars, etc. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net KMA People, I have been reading with interest about looking for places to meet. I just read a a post from MR.Bruce who lamented on cost of overnight stays, travel etc. As an outside sales person, I can agree that lodging and hall rental can be expensive. I have found $150 a night hotels in Lansing, Michigan (which I consider a college town) and found $75 a night hotels in Minneapolis, MN. I think by searching you can usually find lodging just outside large Cities (Like Chicago) in the Suburbs for a very reasonable price. Also quanity discounts could apply. As for Halls look at Park District complexes in some of the larger suburbs can handle large crowds. Smaller Colleges (Like Mr. Bruce's) will often rent out gymns at comparable rates. In fact many of the small private colleges around me (I live in western suburbs of Chicago) have all kinds of seminars, sports camps, etc. during winter breaks, spring breaks and summer. They will also let people use the dorm rooms for as little as $20-30 a night. And colleges usually offer lots of local eateries within walking distance of dorms and campus. Just some suggestion from a guy who has to travel & plan alot. Bob Smith The TKD Smith Family _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:56:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean Short Story Index Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Forwarded message: For those of you interested in Korean literature, I would like to announce the compilation of the Korean Short Story Index. This first version, which consists of Korean short story collections in the Korean language held at Hamilton Library of the University of Hawaii at Manoa, is available at: http://www.hawaii.edu/asiaref/korea/SSIndex/ssmain.htm Your participation in this project would be greatly appreciated by sending further titles. Comments or corrections are welcome. Regards, Kyungmi Chun Korea Specialist Librarian University of Hawaii at Manoa Library --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "J.R. West" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:23:30 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Upper MidWest HapKiDo seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am in the process of setting a date in April to teach a one-day HapKiDo seminar in Mosinee, WI. This might be a little farther north than we have discussed, but it is an established event that draws fairly well from the Chicago area as well as from MI, IN & OH, etc.. I will arrive on Friday night with Wayne Watkins and about 3 or 4 of my other upper belt students in the "Stealth Van"and will provide all the fun you can stand on Saturday. Everyone wants a seminar in this area, so here goes....J. R. West... www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:11:40 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Sport TKD calender Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Terry, I didn't see the SEAAU qualifier April 19, 2003 in Lebanon/Nashville, TN. I will confirm the date with Master Kim Cerami. Also Georgia AAU will have a non-qualifing event May 3rd in Alpharetta, Georgia that will focus on Olympic Style Sparring (Melody Cookson is the co-host). Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:39:34 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Big Seminars Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net << Greg G wwrote>> It's fine to say you'd like to model the current seminar format, but wouldn't it be more prudent to model the format of the gathering as it was in it's early stages? Can Master West's gathering be sucessfully duplicated wihtout first going through the steps he had to go through to get it this far? Can it be done like he does it without his particluar resources? Beats me. Master West, would you be able to share what you went through to get the gathering to it's present stage? I bet it's an interesting story. :) <> Greg brings a good point forward. GM West has (now) a large student base to generate a good base attendance to the event. GM West has Blackbelts in spades, and many that have been "doing things his way" for over a decade. GM West has been training long enough to know enough people to invite big draws like GM/Dr. Kimm, GM Timmerman, Master Whalen, Master Booth, and the MANY talented 5th Dan's in the USKMAF. GM West is indeed a great host and has his staff well prepared to show us all a HUGE dose of southern hospitality. GM West has a dojang large enough to host the Friday/Sunday sessions saving a lot of money on ballroom rental. Even with all that he spends most of the time between seminars working out the best deals for the next event. He also expends great resources updating his website, making flyers, mailing invitations, etc. Now let's take the Moja Kwan Moo Do Camp coming into it's 3rd year this September. The first year I spent a few hundred dollars of my own money for about 10 of us to train with Master Hodder and myself (money well spent in retrospect). This year with the increased mailing and promoting, and my increased student base (from 15 to 25) I was able to break even and had about 25 participants. GM West and Master Allison are probably laughing at how lucky I was to break even in the second year. So, my point is; If you have a regional seminar with Grandmaster "X" in anytown USA on a given weekend for about $100 to $150, you'll be doing good to have 25 of your own students show up, and 10-25 die-hards in the 4-8 hour driving radius. But, if everyone learns something, and the GM is a good clinician in addition to a good technician, and the site offers good hospitality, then each year it will grow a little through word of mouth. I wish Bruce and others luck in hosting a Northern America internationale. Cost and time would prohibit me from attending, but then I am spoiled as GM Timmerman is coming to Jackson (which I can afford). Bruce, if you're serious I would look into your club hosting the event as a "student" event, or even a "fund raiser" for your club, which might get the university to back off on fees it would charge the club. Also canvas your students and other nearby instructors for the possibility of renting/using a church if one of your students is a member, and/or someone who has say a 2500 to 3500 SF workout floor that could host a Sat/Sun event. I would say whoever hosts such an event would need 25-50 students pre-registered from their student base to meet expenses... Good Luck! Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustutkd1@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest