Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 03:01:49 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #103 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Planning Seminars (Rudy Timmerman) 2. Re: Sport TKD calender (Ray Terry) 3. Early Hapkido Training (Michael Rowe) 4. RE: Invitation (Morgan James) 5. Sine Curve (sp?) (FirstPe315@aol.com) 6. Seminars Seminars Seminars and KMA (J T) 7. Re: broken bricks (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 8. printed paper via the poobah (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 9. Re: Choson Kwon Bup is not that new... (Chosondo@aol.com) 10. Combat Hapkido Rank Certificate (Ali Alnasser) 11. Hi (Mario Lipcajt) 12. Paving Stones (Rudy Timmerman) 13. Regionals (Rudy Timmerman) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:58:47 -0800 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Planning Seminars Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce writes: > #3. The traditional location for such events in Chicago has been the > Horner > Center on the Chicago Northside. Last time I checked it was about $200 > to > $400 to use for the weekend, but there is no way they will authorize an > overnight. > > #4. There is still the idea of using a Holiday Inn and trade off using > a > couple of meeting rooms for a promise to direct participants to stay > overnight in the Hotel. One hand DOES wash the other.... Hello Bruce: I think you have done a great job on looking into venues. #3 probably will want insurance, and #4 might not. This needs to be looked at. The college is a great idea. I have done several similar thing at the LSSUniversity, and they usually have insurance to cover a school activity. As the Sec. Treasurer of the LSSU student senate, I was able to get truly amazing deals. They also did the lodging thing during the off season. Your connections might do wonders there. I did some checking into accessibility for participants. It looks like Chicago and Toledo or Detroit all have similar numbers of other cities within the 8 hour driving range (BTW, 8 hours for me is a piece of cake, and I am surprised you call that a "great distance":). The real issue is who in these cities are truly willing to support with some real numbers. There is a bottom line that needs to be covered in any case; and, without the numbers to cover that, it will be another shirt lost. The reason I lean toward the Ohio, Michigan area is simply because I have a better chance of meeting the bottom line numbers. If you and Jeremy can assure the same thing, it really does not matter much to me where I hang my hat for the weekend. After listening to Ian's experience in Chicago, I am concerned that the Chicago area is NOT willing/able to support the needed numbers. On the other hand, the "gathering" did OK. This leads me to believe that a Chicago seminar won't do well until the event become more established. Just thinking out loud. I guess the bottom line is this. Can you and Jeremy get at least enough people together to offset expenses? Another thought while I am thinking out loud. Perhaps a Windsor seminar would work. There, US travelers will have a 50% advantage in exchange rates for lodging, and Canadians will not suffer from the opposite. To Troy: Thanks for the vote of confidence Troy. As I said before, to make another seminar a positive thing, we will need to be careful to coordinate it with JR. I absolutely see no sense in creating a conflict where none exist now. In addition, JR and I will likely have more students in our own respective areas, and that helps the members of both orgs to have better access to good training. With the great relationship, respect, and open minded approach between the two orgs, I think we could expect continued and even greater support from each other. Something most other Korean orgs just dream about at this point . The funny thing is that it just happened. Neither JR nor I had any alliance in mind when we first met, and we still do our own thing without any pressure from one or another. At least in my case, I simply saw good technique by JR and his wife, and I urged my students and members to go get more of it. I will continue to do so. and more. With Ray giving us the bandwidth to communicate more easily, I can see great things happen. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Sport TKD calender To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:22:17 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I didn't see the SEAAU qualifier April 19, 2003 in Lebanon/Nashville, > TN. I will confirm the date with Master Kim Cerami. > > Also Georgia AAU will have a non-qualifing event May 3rd in Alpharetta, > Georgia that will focus on Olympic Style Sparring (Melody Cookson is > the co-host). Added. Thanks! Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Michael Rowe" To: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:46:46 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Early Hapkido Training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have had a few interesting discussions in the last couple of days in regards to what skills learned were Hapkido or not. It seems that the general opinon is that unless your instructor taught you exclusivly Hapkido what you learned was not Hapkido but Ho Shin Sul. I have known a couple of Hapkido Masters that in the early days of teaching (1970's) had a hard time getting students for Hapkido. However they had no trouble getting students to learn Korean Karate (Tae Kwon Do) Now these instructors were qualified in both Hapkido, Taekwondo, and Judo having graduated with honors from the Korean Judo College (I know the name has changed now). They often talked about how the curriculum that they taught was actually Taekwondo with HAPKIDO. Basically they taught a Hapkido curriculum that was one rank behind the Taekwondo Rank in which students where at (so if you were a 7th Gup you would be learning the 8th Gup Hapkido along with the 7th Gup Taekwondo). They did this in the Self-Defense aspects of the Taekwondo and called it Ho Shin Sul. Why did they do this? They had no students in Hapkido alone however were able to get Taekwondo Students so they taught the Hapkido to maintain their own skills and to make the Taekwondo Curriculum more challenging. Later as Hapkido became more well known and they could get students they had seperate classes for Taekwondo, Hapkido, and Judo. Now the funny thing I have observed is the fact that there is a little bit of crossover in all the curriculums of these now Grandmasters. In the TKD they will learn a chunk of the HKD and the Judo techniques by the time they are a 1st Dan. As a HKD you will learn a little of the kicking and throwing. And in judo you get a few kicks, strikes, and joint manipulations. However, you will not learn a lot of kicking in the Hapkido Program mostly Front Kick, Side Kick, Round House, Spin Side, Hook, and Wheel (the big one being a kneeling Wheel kick - I remember practiciing that one a lot) If you wanted kicking skills you were encouraged to join the Taekwondo Program. It was the same in judo and Taekwondo. Everyone learned a chunk of the curriculums available regardless of the program you were in. If you were interested you were encouraged to join the other programs. I know this because I was a nut in that I studied Taekwondo, Hapkido, and Judo all at the same time. This along with being a member of the NROTC, the NROTC Band, the wrestling team, working 40 hrs/week and carrying at least 12 crds made for a life of no troubles for me - just no sleep. Having studied these three arts I have come to the conclusion that Hapkido is like a General Humanites Degree. You have kicking, striking, deflections (hard and soft), joint manipulations, throwing, sweeping, choking, pressure points, breathing exercises, even weapons (though not a lot of them). The longer you progress the greater your understanding in each area becomes. Though often there will be areas that you have a greater degree of competence in. Hence the difference in abilities. Taekwondo and Judo are like a specialized Degree such as Nuclear Engineering or Bio-Chemistry. You have a general understanding of the other catergories but focus and develop a special skill set to the peak of understanding. So today when I teach I am influenced by my Taekwondo, Hapkido (including Combat Hapkido), Judo, Okinawan Kobudo, Pang Gai Noon-Ryu Budo kan Karate-do, Kombatan, Modern Arnis, Fencing, wrestling, boxing, Kendo, Kenjutsu and Tai Chi Chuan as well as the practice of Reiki, accupressure, and Herbal Studies. It is reflected in my teachings. I have kept an open mind and learned from whoever I could and it has made me quite a mongrel so to speak. I am far from being a pure-bred. At one time I admit being a pure-bred Karateka was very important, but I grew out of it. All knowledge is good even that from people who don't seem to know what they are talking about on the surface, but with lots of thought and application can begin to make sense. I will admit that there are those who have spoken a kernal of truth but in the end did not have enough to keep the spark flaming. But even us mongrels must have a home so to speak and hopefully it will be with a loving family, not the pound. Sorry for the long and many trained thought post. Michael Rowe --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Morgan James To: 'Dojang Digest' Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:02:07 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Invitation Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ramon and all other DD regulars: I had a lengthy conversation with Master Roy King last night about his upcoming seminar with GM Park, Song Il in April. He is very excited about this event and hopes for a good turnout. I myself live only 45 minutes from Master King's dojang so with any luck, I'll be there as well with a few of my own students. Master King has an extensive martial arts background dating back to the '50s and with he and GM Park, Song Il running the show, it ought to be an excellent learning experience. Master King has asked me to bring several flyers about this event to Jackson with me next week. I will have them for all of those who are interested and will gladly hand them out..................with Master West's permission of course. James Morgan www.gtkda.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:06:10 -0500 From: FirstPe315@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Sine Curve (sp?) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To All- Somebody educate me as to what this is. Never heard of it in my 20+ years of HKD. Strange? Oh well, what is it. Does it have practical value. Are there exercises or drills to reflect what it is and how to do it to better conceptualize this theory. How does it relate to training, hoshinsool, sparring. Jeff --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:29:22 -0800 (PST) From: J T To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Seminars Seminars Seminars and KMA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am glad that there is so much talk on this subject as of late and hope that something will come from it all. First off for GM West. When you conduct your seminars is it strictly HKD people or do you allow other KMA to instruct as well? I know the main focal point in trying to get things together in Chicago is to have a nice variety of KMA represented and not just one fraction of it. Also, please keep me informed of the Wisconsin seminar in April. Secondly, location of seminar. A point that was well made is that a seminar doesn't have to be held in the big city. There are pleanty of community colleges and park districts around the suburbs that might be reasonable to try and hold an event. I will start making some phone calls next week to see what the going rate and requirements are to get an idea of that cost. Third..Reminder of March 15th and 16th seminar in Westmont Illinois. Myself and Sensei Jon Ludwig will be hosting a Wing Chun and Arnis Seminar featuring Sifu Arturo Gabriel. Date: Saturday, March 15, 2003 9:00am to 1:00pm *Sunday, March 16, 2003 9:00am to 1:00pm LOCATION Shoshin Dojo 29 N. Cass Avenue Suite 1A Westmont, Illinois 60559 ADMISSION $55.00 For One Session $65.00 For Both Sessions This is a Martial Arts Collective Society and World Combat Arts Federation sponsored event so members of both organizations will receive a 10% discount on admissions ***Economy Package Arnis Session With Double Sticks And Wooden Knife - $70.00 Both Sessions Including Double Sticks And Wooden Knife - $80.00 Contact information on event or the instructor Jeremy M. Talbott (630) 712-0248 NOTE NO LIVE BLADES and NO VIDEO TAPING *All Participants Must Supply Their Own Arnis Sticks And Practice Knives For Sunday Session ***All Economy And Deluxe Packages Must Be Ordered Before March 5, 2003 And Will Not Be Refundable Ray is it possible to send this information to your Escrima Digest? Finally a quick comment about KMA. So many times I have heard that I would never get the full effect of KMA because I am not Korean...Folks what is there to get? It is basic human nature to defend oneself. I may not be able to pronounce my moves in Korean but does that make the techniques any less effective? For those who have studied Korean culture and language because of their art, has your techniques become better? Please don't get me wrong, I believe studying a different culture is a great thing. However it is utter crap that I or any other non-Korean will not fully understand KMA because of our nationality. Jeremy __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 7 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:01:27 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: broken bricks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To Melinda: Broken bricks for gifts.  Hmmmm, it is getting better all the time:)  At last, I will have something for my black belts this Christmas. Sincerely, Rudy lol....just sign your name on them and in twenty years we'll be bidding over them on ebay ;) take care, melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy www.cjmaa.com 1-573-673-2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply www.cjmas.com 1-877-847-4072 --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:16:15 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] printed paper via the poobah Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I will beat his price and throw in my 14 video tape series and include for free "how to catch Tibetan Gophers! While supplies last we still have those Ginzu knives sets left over form the 70's and those are also free. I do not know if this link will still be good (it should be for 5 days) on ebay but I found this for $10.00. For Sale from a lady in Kentucky (about an hour south of me): Combat Hapkido Rank Diploma Item # 2713420975 The URL is at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2713420975&category=16044 It looks like a blank ICHF certificate (picture on ebay) with a kido logo on the bottom center... The details state: We have one Combat Hapkido rank diploma copy. It was sent from Germany, it's printed on Parchment card stock. The size is 8.5x11 and has computer generated signatures. Looks authentic, great for collectors or those looking for new design ideas. Shipping is $3.85 Priority --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Chosondo@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 20:23:16 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Choson Kwon Bup is not that new... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 2/26/2003 4:02:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Ian has a Choson-do organization which is relatively new, dynamic and > liberal in its approach. Mr. Sims, thank you for mentioning me and my organization, however, Choson Kwon Bup (formerly Chosondo) has been in existance since 1850. The Chosondo Sa Hoe (Society) was organized in 1958. I re-named the organization "The International Chosondo Federation", changed the art's name from Chosondo to Choson Kwon Bup, and totally revamped the curriculum. I am sorry if this seems like a plug, but I wanted to set things straight. Thank you. Ian A. Cyrus, Headmaster International Chosondo Federation --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Ali Alnasser" To: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:43:13 +0900 (KST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Combat Hapkido Rank Certificate Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I noticed this afternoon that someone is selling a blank combat hapkido dan certificate on ebay for $10. Here's the description of the auction: "We have one Combat Hapkido rank diploma copy. It was sent from Germany, it's printed on Parchment card stock. The size is 8.5x11 and has compuer generated signatures. Looks authentic, great for collectors or those looking for new design ideas. Shipping is $3.85 Priority" [TABLE NOT SHOWN][TABLE NOT SHOWN][IMAGE] --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:30:59 -0800 (PST) From: Mario Lipcajt To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hi Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi, my name is Mario.I practice WTF taekwondo and I am 3rd.dan. I have my school in Belgrade,Serbia. I want learn more about self defence and if someone want to help me let me write. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:50:17 -0800 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Paving Stones Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Danny writes: > What about a nice cobble drive, walk or a patio? At my last house I > make a nice > cobble walk to the front door. Now I discourage students from breaking > masonery Hello Dan: Another good bit of advise, but at this point I like Melinda's idea of "giving" the pieces right back to those who create the problem. I think a bag of broken bricks is a great Christmas gift for black belts:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 23:12:28 -0800 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Regionals Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Charles writes: > So, my point is; If you have a regional seminar with Grandmaster "X" > in anytown USA on a given weekend for about $100 to $150, you'll be > doing good to have 25 of your own students show up, and 10-25 die-hards > in the 4-8 hour driving radius. But, if everyone learns something, and > the GM is a good clinician in addition to a good technician, and the > site offers good hospitality, then each year it will grow a little > through word of mouth. Hello Charles: Your post reiterates much of what I have said. One would need a fairly solid student/membership base in order to make it work. My students are not adverse to driving 8-10 hours to a seminar, because we are used to it. It is why I am not feeling too bad about going the 4000 click round trip to Jackson with a few students. Nevertheless, few martial artists are so inclined, and any organizer had better remember that. Regardless of what happens with these plans, I will forge ahead with the plans I had in the works before we began this discussion. I need to do this, because I have to fill the needs of NKMAA members. If we attract more people, great! I won't expect it right away, but I know that in time it will work if the seminar presenter deserves it. I am savy enough to know that it will be a long haul to make it anything like JRs Jackson event. It is no different than having the patience and determination to work for a deserved black belt or Masters degree, so I am used to it:) BTW, I had a few people ask me about my black belt requirements. I will post that whenever I get a chance to find a way to reformat the information on my test sheets. Please give me a bit of time, because I will be spending much of next week driving to Jackson:) One more time NKMAA members -- I strongly urge you to take advantage of the Jackson experience. Get out there and earn your dues on the mat. There are plenty of others who will sit on the sofa and "send" for some McOrg credentials. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustutkd1@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest