Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 03:01:48 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #105 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Tibetan Gopher Throwing (J.R. West) 2. distraction techniques (michael tomlinson) 3. Re: Use of a distraction technique (Chris LaCava) 4. Distraction Techniques (SEXTONR003@hawaii.rr.com) 5. RE: Archives?? (Wallace, John) 6. Marc Tedeschi books (Scott F. Barnes) 7. Life in earlier times (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 8. Re: Archives?? (Ray Terry) 9. Re: Marc Tedeschi books (Ray Terry) 10. Seminar Prep (DrgnSlyr5@aol.com) 11. Re: Splitting from my teacher... (Chosondo@aol.com) 12. RE: Archives?? (Wallace, John) 13. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_It_Depends?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 14. TGT in the news (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "J.R. West" To: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:42:43 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Tibetan Gopher Throwing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Well the words "Tibetan Gopher Throwing" immediately come to mind and > I loose it completely. I am very proud that my creation "Tibetan Gopher Throwing" (tm, patent & copyright pending) is doing so well. I have been sent T-shirt artwork from the East coast to Australia, and most convey the philosophy that I intended. PS...You owe me a buck, pay up deadbeat! ;-) J. R. West www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 22:48:19 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] distraction techniques Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In most of the Sin Moo joint locks there is no need for a distraction technique, if you step right and pivot right, ie... triangle step, x step, balls of the feet, kiss toes step and lower your hip structure properly then you end up in a position where you don't need to "soften up your opponent" as many say you need to do, I know of one style of " Hapkido" that does a low kick before almost every joint lock, now low kicks are good, but if you have to rely on them to activate the joint lock then something is missing in your training, also your opponent is not gonna stand there so you can "disect a corpse" as Bruce Lee so eloquently put it years ago, fighting happens in a three dimensional world so you have to be fluid yet strong and precise with your stepping and body positioning,, my two cents anyway, "if you don't know how to step on the joint locks then you pretty much have to use a distraction technique" and if you are gonna slam someones knee really good with a Hapkido low kick then you really don't need the joint lock afterwards, just let them fall.... Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Chris LaCava" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:49:37 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Use of a distraction technique Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Tom K.: <> Hi Tom. I used to think so, but the more I train and see the more I realized I was mistaken. "Off-balancing" and "Body manipulations" seem to be the key aspects (besides the 3 Principles) that separate Hapkido from "just adding jointlocks to a MA." Distractions are the icing on the cake. They are great to have, but I no longer would want to rely on them. Just my $.02 Take care. Chris "from CT" LaCava's Martial Arts Westport, CT. http://lmaa.bravepages.com Online Store- http://www.cafepress.com/hapkidogear _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail --__--__-- Message: 4 From: To: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 12:57:26 -1000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Distraction Techniques Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Tom wrote: "Is the use of distraction techniques basic to Hapkido? In other words, is the need for a distraction technique generally required for some Hapkido techniques to work. Just for the sake of clarity suppose someone has grabbed you on a one hand. Do you need to distract before applying a joint lock or other technique? The purpose of this question is to determine the need for and the effectiveness of distraction techniques in Hapkido." I personally think it is basic and even more important, it's fun! I've seen Aikido guys thrust their hands toward their "opponent's" face to distract them, however, I prefer a good swift low kick. If you think about it, even a balance break is a distraction technique...or that gleem in your eyes and that little smirk on your face cause you just know it can't get any better than this! Randall Sexton www.LaughingHara.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Wallace, John" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Archives?? Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 15:42:37 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I've been having a hard time finding old DD - anything older than V06.n001. Are they down for maintenance, lost, or perhaps never there to begin with?? I'm researching the first appearance of the term, Tibetan Gopher Tossing - first retrievable mention was in V07.n683, with Dave Weller relating his attempt to use one of good ol' b's training tips, using his BB from TGT. That was Oct 2000 though. I could swear we had brought it up earlier... -John W. I Dan, TKD Unranked, TGT (We have ground squirrels in CA - don't think I've seen a gopher here) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.459 / Virus Database: 258 - Release Date: 2/25/2003 --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:56:05 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: "Scott F. Barnes" Subject: [The_Dojang] Marc Tedeschi books Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I asked this in the alt.martial-arts.tae-kwon-do newsgroup earlier today and I wondered what I was thinking since this is even a better place to ask. I bought the Marc Tedeschi Introduction to Hapkido book a while back and thought it was great. I considered getting the "big" 1000+ page version, but since Hapkido is not my primary art, I didn't know how well/accurately he covered the subject. At $90+ USD I didn't take the chance. He's coming out with a Taekwondo version called "Taekwondo: Traditions, Philosophy, Technique". Weighing in at 896 pages, it is a little bit smaller. I practice WTF style TKD, but I'm really interested in all aspects, so the inclusion of ITF and other unfamiliar forms is also appealing. The TKD book *lists* for $90 USD, but I noticed amazon.ca has it for $94.85 CDN which is excellent (in relative terms) considering exchange rates and potential duties. Also noticed Chapters.ca has the Hapkido book on sale for $87.50 CDN instead of their standard $125 (but they have no listing for the TKD book yet). I just wondered what Hapkido practitioners think of "Hapkido: Traditions, Philosophy, Technique". Thanks, Scott --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:16:28 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Life in earlier times Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> We suggested to my teacher back in the 70's that he should put Korean Karate outside the dojang as he would get so upset when people called asking what the lunch special was. His English would get loud and turn into Korean. At this point he would just hand the phone to one of us and we would politely explain that this was a Korean dojang and not a Chinese restaurant. When we suggested the term Korean karate, he used to lecture us on the point that this was a dojang and not a "Japanese anything". He would then not use any English is class to stress his point. He was not fond of the Japanese. I found out later why and it is understandable. The occupation took its toll on many families, just as any war does. Jere R. Hilland www.hapkidoselfdefense.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Archives?? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:09:40 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I've been having a hard time finding old DD - anything older than V06.n001. > Are they down for maintenance, lost, or perhaps never there to begin with?? They are not online. Toooo many search hits (and slower searches) when all the vols are online. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Marc Tedeschi books To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:12:28 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I bought the Marc Tedeschi Introduction to Hapkido book a while back and > thought it was great. I considered getting the "big" 1000+ page version, > but since Hapkido is not my primary art, I didn't know how well/accurately > he covered the subject. At $90+ USD I didn't take the chance. His HKD book is good, but personally I recommend either of Dr. Kimm's two HKD "Bibles" before Tedeschi's work. But if you can afford it, get all three. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: DrgnSlyr5@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:45:06 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Seminar Prep Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net For those who are heading to Jackson next week! ;-) As I received this from someone else and am not a Southerner, you who are, feel free to correct, confirm, or otherwise comment. Sharon ~~~~~~~~~~ 1.) Only a true Southerner knows the difference between a hissie fit and a conniption, and that you don't "have" them - you "pitch" them. 2.) Only a true Southerner knows how many fish, collard greens, turnip greens, peas, beans, etc. make up a "mess". 3.) Only a true Southerner can show or point out to you the general direction of "yonder". 4.) Only a true Southerner knows exactly how long "directly" is, as in "Going to town, be back directly." 5.) All true Southerners, even babies, know that "Gimme some sugar" is not a request for the white, granular sweet substance that sits in a pretty little bowl on the middle of the table. 6.)All true Southerners know exactly when "by and by" is. They might not use the term, but they know the concept well. 7.) Only a true Southerner knows instinctively that the best gesture of solace for a neighbor who's got trouble is a plate of hot fried chicken and a big bowl of cold potato salad. (If the neighbor's trouble is a real crisis, they also know to add a large banana puddin'.) 8.) Only true Southerners grow up knowing the difference between "right near" and "a right far piece". They also know that "just down the road" can be 1 mile or 20. 9.)Only a true Southerner both knows and understands the difference between a redneck, a good ol' boy and po' white trash. 10.) No true Southerner would ever assume that the car with the flashing signal is actually going to make a turn. 11.) A true Southerner knows that "fixin'" can be used a a noun, a verb, or an adverb. 12.) Only a true Southerner knows that the term "booger" can be a resident of the nose, a descriptive, as in "that ol' booger", a first name, or something that jumps out at you in the dark and scares you senseless. 13.) Only true Southerners make friends while standing in line. They don't do "queues" they do "lines" and when "in line" they talk to everyone. 14.)Put 100 true Southerners in a room and half of them will discover they're related, if only by marriage. 15.) True Southerners never refer to one person as "y'all". 16.) True Southerners know grits come from corn and how to eat them. 17.) When you hear someone say, "Well, I caught myself lookin'..." you are in the presence of a true Southerner. 18.) A true Southerner knows that if you are with a couple of friends, you could be with 2 or 10. the number doesn't matter. 19.) And a true Southerner knows that you don't scream obscenities at little old ladies who drive 30 MPH on the freeway. You just say "Bless her heart" and go your own way. --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Chosondo@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:04:24 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Splitting from my teacher... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 2/27/2003 5:45:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > From this view perhaps it would be enlightening for someone of > your standing to share the motives that caused you to split from your > teacher and start your own organization rather than work within the context > > of an existing and known framework. FWIW. > > BTW Does the original organization ("Choson-Do Sa Hoe") still exist? > Can you give a bit of insight into how its leadership is organized and who > hold the positions of authority? Mr. Sims: Thank you for your thoughts on the subject of modifying what we are taught. However, I did not split from my teacher (Michael Atamian). I did everything I mentioned with his blessing. I am the 7th successor of the art. Therefore, it is my perogative to put my own stamp on it - make it mine if you will... The "Chosondo SaHoe" still exist inasmuch as it is now the International Chosondo Federation (ICF). I hope that this isn't too confusing. As the saying goes, "the only thing that changes is the names we give to things". Thank you for your interest. Best regards, Ian A. Cyrus, Headmaster International Chosondo Federation --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Wallace, John" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Archives?? Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:35:21 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ah, well there's a trick to minimize the extra search hits. Use the volume and number information with a wildcard character like so: "TGT V07.n0*" Which would limit the search to only look for TGT references in the first 99 issues of volume 7 "TGT V10.n21*" Limits the search only to issues 210 to 219 in volume 10. "McD v0*.n0*4" Yields pronouncements from the redoubtable Ken McDonough from V08.n014, V09.n14, V07.n54, and V07.n44 Works great! -JW -----Original Message----- From: Ray Terry [mailto:rterry@idiom.com] Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 4:10 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Archives?? > I've been having a hard time finding old DD - anything older than > V06.n001. Are they down for maintenance, lost, or perhaps never there > to begin with?? They are not online. Toooo many search hits (and slower searches) when all the vols are online. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.459 / Virus Database: 258 - Release Date: 2/25/2003 --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:45:07 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_It_Depends?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Tom: ".....Is the use of distraction techniques basic to Hapkido? In other words, is the need for a distraction technique generally required for some Hapkido techniques to work....." I'm sorry if what I am about to say sounds like a bit of a dodge. It really isn't meant that way. However, the use of "distraction" is highly specific to the art you are discussing. In Aikido, Ueyshiba Sensei was quoted as saying that "Atemi (striking) is 90% of Aikido". Of course, his style of Aikido went through four major transitions during his career, with the most aggressive practice during and right after his training under Takeda. Later the use of stiking to unbalance the opponent gave way to more "highly evolved" motives and so the practitioner became more compassionate (so to speak) and less punishing in dealing with the opponent. I have heard many KMA practitioners advocate a pre-emptive strike to "soften" or prep the opponent. In Yon Mu Kwan we use "feinting" which can either be an actual strike or a mis-direction of focus to tip the odds in the favor of applying a technique. In my college classes there is ALWAYS someone who feels the need to jack with the other person by using truely overwhelming resistance, or reversing the grab. Originally I had imagined using a tap or slap and then whipping the technique on just to punish such insolence. Now I just shrug-- but I make a point of matching such personalities with each other so remaining students are not troubled by them. As far as a generality? In my book preemptive strikes are an integral part of Hapkido, though some techniques necessitate their use more than others. RH and Spin-kicks should not be done without a "set-up" of some kind. Most locks and pins are more easily applied if you prep with a pre-emptive move. BTW: When I say "pre-emptive" I do not mean that one gets in the first strike as much as taking preparatory actions in anticipation of a conflict. A "pre-emptive move" could be something as innocuous as moving that ash tray or bottle just out of reach of the guy with the attitude sitting next to you. All the same, if you mean is there a regular place for preparatory strikes in Hapkido, my answer is "yes". Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 14 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:55:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] TGT in the news Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net No mentions of the highly respected art of TGT in vols 1 thru 6 of the list. The first mention here was by Gm West on Tue, 2 May 2000. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustutkd1@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest