Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 17:20:02 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #106 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Making ends meet (Rudy Timmerman) 2. Needing Mats (Rudy Timmerman) 3. Lost my favorites .... HELP (Laurie S.) 4. Re:distraction (Klaas Barends) 5. Hapkido get-together; Taekyon kicks (Burdick, Dakin R) 6. Re: tedeschi books (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 7. book announcement (Ray Terry) 8. GM West's Gatherings (J T) 9. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Said_it_before_and_I_say_it_again...?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 10. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Further_Thoughts?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 11. Invitation To grandmaster West seminar (gaby noufaily) 12. The Three Principles (Stovall, Craig) 13. Patrick, Mike and others early Memories (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 14. Re: The Three Principles (Ray Terry) 15. Ellen's Experience (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 00:54:45 -0800 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Making ends meet Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray writes: > Leave it to Gm West to come up with the best idea yet for ways to cover > the cost of hosting a large seminar. :) Hello Ray: I think I'll bring some of those broken bricks with me to help out. Maybe Melinda will get some before I kick the bucket:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 01:15:43 -0800 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Needing Mats Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce writes: > In this case, the room has a sprung floor > and many mirrors, but I am guessing most people would still want mats > on > the floor just the same. Hello Bruce: Knowing how most Aikido people (and others) feel about their Dojo, I think it might be wise to leave them in peace and maintain the good relationship you now have. You never know what to expect with visitors and a nicely decorated Dojo. As far as mats are concerned. I really don't think it is THAT important:) Most serious HKD students think that "no pain means no gain", and people like JR and I work hard to make sure they leave happy albeit a bit wobbly:) I think Master DeWitt might have been a bit surprised that we don't even bother with mats at our black belt workshops. However, I did notice that hitting the floor just gave him a bit more incentive to use good breakfalls:) BTW, back in the sixties, we did not even have mats. The demos we did were straight on the concrete most of the time, and our Dojang had old asbestos tiles as the workout floor. But then, our shower was a garden hose (yes cold water) hung from the joists, and we stood on a pallet over a sump hole. Needless to say that taking showers were not an option, they were part of the training (and some still say -- ahhh the good ole days:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Laurie S." To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 02:06:54 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Lost my favorites .... HELP Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hiya all. My computer crashed. I had to reload everything. But I lost my favorites (bookmarks). A few of them were Master Mac's, Redfields, and The Digest sites. Can someone post them, please? Pretty please? *begs* :o) Thanks in advance. Laurie _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 10:06:28 +0100 From: Klaas Barends To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:distraction Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Just for the sake of clarity suppose someone has grabbed you on a one hand. > Do you need to distract before applying a joint lock or other technique? You need to unbalance before you can apply a joint locking technique. When someone is out of balance you can apply the joint lock without using any force yourself. When someone is balanced though, your joint lock won't work (unless you use excessive force, but that makes is non-hapkido, doesn't it?) -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 08:26:46 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido get-together; Taekyon kicks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi All, In the discussion about a Midwest get-together, let me throw Indiana University's hat into the ring. The spaces we have available are: 1. Aikido room (aka. "the fort"): 50x50 Swain mat set up with 1 inch of foam padding underneath. Maximum number of people = probably 40. 2. Gymnastics room: 50x50 gymnastic mats. Advantage = really great for jump kicks. Disadvantage = when it bottoms out on a dive roll, it hits concrete! 3. HPER 163: 2 basketball courts on a hardwood floor. I never saw a seminar this room couldn't hold. There's enough swain mats in the closet for a 30x30' space. 4. Judo room: Swain mats over wrestling mats (judo took it over from wrestling years ago). It is about 30x80'. 5. Wildermuth gym: 6 basketball courts in one room, with a track around the outside. For when the get-together takes off for real. :) There's other rooms, but those are the easiest to get. We'd still need a lot of lead time to get them though (say, 6 months!). The other potential problem might be that we're in Bloomington, which may be too far for some. It is about 4 hours from Chicago, 3 hours from Cinncinnati, 2 hours from Louisville, 4 hours from Columbus, 4 hours from St. Louis, 6.5 hours from Detroit, and 10.5 hours from Toronto (which I drive every summer for the Guelph Sword Seminar). We have 1000 students each semester in the martial arts program, and university accredited classes in beginning, intermediate, and advanced hapkido. The style is USHF, which can be seen at www.hapkido.org. Patrick wrote: >Until approx 1966 TKD's kicking repertoire consisted of Front, side, inside >and outside crescent (and perhaps RH and back kick) ONLY. The addition of >Taekyon kicks to Hapkido in the early 60's? spurred competition with >Taekwondo, and the Taekwondo kick repertoire has expanded. What are the "Taekyon kicks"? Are you talking about spinning kicks? If so, wasn't Chuck Norris (a Tangsudo guy) one of the innovators of those? --__--__-- Message: 6 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:38:54 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: tedeschi books Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net amazon has the TKD book for sale at $63, the HKD:TPT for the same or even less from their associates. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/103-9065374-9635049 take care, melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy www.cjmaa.com 1-573-673-2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply www.cjmas.com 1-877-847-4072 --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 06:41:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] book announcement Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Forwarded message: The University of Hawai`i Press is pleased to announce the appearance of Chan E. Park's Voices from the Straw Mat: Toward an Ethnography of Korean Story Singing (March 2003) http://www.uhpress.hawaii.edu/cart/shopcore/?db_name=uhpress&page=shop/flypage&product_sku=0-8248-2511-X in the Hawai`i Studies on Korea series published in association with the Center for Korean Studies at UH. Other recent UHP books in Korean studies are listed at the following URL. http://www.uhpress.hawaii.edu/journals/ks/koreabooks.html The American Association of University Presses also has compiled a web list of AAUP books on Korea in its feature entitled Books for Understanding An ongoing project to identify for the public university press books relevant to the news of the day. Now featuring books on North Korea, Race Relations in America, Iraq, Israel and Palestine, and other topics in the news. http://aaupnet.org/booksforunderstanding.html The URL for the Korea list follows. http://aaupnet.org/news/bfu/korea/list.html Joel Bradshaw Journals & Web Manager University of Hawai`i Press 2840 Kolowalu Street, Honolulu, HI 96822 http://www.uhpress.hawaii.edu/ --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 06:45:30 -0800 (PST) From: J T To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] GM West's Gatherings Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net " Now we have classes that cover a broad range of KMA topics including strikes, kicks, locks, throws, pressure point manipulation, weapons and even Korean Language instruction for those that have an interest, and there is always a TKD function and a TSD clinic held on the Friday of the seminar. " Thank you very much for that information. Now another question, have you ever considered doing a quarterly event as opposed to a semi-annual event? Or do you think that would be too much for everyone? Before allowing a non HKD person to teach what do you do to check the person out? Example would you let a 2nd 3rd or 4th dan teach or do they have to be a minimum rank in order to demonstrate? Do you ask that demonstrate with you to start off with or do you just observe how they handle themselves while they participate as a student in the seminar? Jeremy __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 08:35:52 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Said_it_before_and_I_say_it_again...?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Scott: ".....I just wondered what Hapkido practitioners think of "Hapkido: Traditions, Philosophy, Technique"......" I have both Tedeschis' book and Dr. Kimms' book and page-for-page Dr. Kimms' book is heads&tails above the other. Oddly they are both at the same price point or perhaps Dr. Kimms is a bit cheaper. I believe the history section in Dr. Kimms' book is more objective and better documented where Tedeschis' book seems to rely on more oral tradition. For example, Dr. Kimm speaks of relationships between and among practitioners, but Tedeschi uses the approach that implies that there is some sort of linear "inheritance" of a title or position as head of the art. To me thats a bit like stating that there is an inherited position of authority for painting, dance, sculptor or any other art. Regarding technique I also give the edge to Dr. Kimm as the pictures are larger and explanations a bit more detailed. Neither book is particularly well-organized in terms of progression, however, Dr. Kimms' book seems (to my eye) to approximate the more commonly accepted techniques to the more commonly accepted levels of ranking or instruction when considering the Confucian approach to instruction commonly used. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:04:54 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Further_Thoughts?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ian: ".....Thank you for your thoughts on the subject of modifying what we are taught. However, I did not split from my teacher (Michael Atamian). I did everything I mentioned with his blessing. I am the 7th successor of the art. Therefore, it is my perogative to put my own stamp on it - make it mine if you will.....". Call me Bruce and thanks for your response and for clearing up my misconceptions. Can you tell me a bit about the role of "successor" in your art. I have noticed that many Chinese arts (Tai Chi for instance) don't actually speak in terms of a successor as much as identify various individuals as coming from a "generation" as in "Mr. Lee is a 14th generation practitioner of Chen Tai Chi". My sense is that in this way a single person does not designate themselves nor is designated as the leader of an organization (except maybe through acclaim of his peers. In my own personal experience this would be a bit like my relationship with JR or Rudy. Though they have yet to ask to be addressed as such, I don't know anyone who addresses them as anything but "Master West" or "Master Timmerman" at social occasions). Along these lines my own research into the developmental dynamics of KMA seems to indicate that small, task-specific groups rather than large social movements and lineages seem to have been the model for how these traditions evolved in Korea. I got the impression that Choson-do, evolving from a civil art developed by traders returning to Korea in the 1800-s would have been an ideal example of this. However, the concept of inherited leadership, again, wouldn't fit into the dynamic. Is this part of the art that you have modified? Did you draw on some particular tradition (Korean or otherwise) to make this change? Are there special responsibilities that such a position entails? How will the "mantle" be passed to the next individual? Is there recourse for those folks who will not accept your designation of a successor? Sorry to have thrown out so many questions all at once, but getting a Korean grandmaster to discuss such things would be damn-near impossible. My guess is that most questions in that context would be mute. I would be very interested in your thoughts, though. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "gaby noufaily" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 17:30:10 +0200 Subject: [The_Dojang] Invitation To grandmaster West seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am interested about Grandmaster West seminar .But the problem is that I live in Beirut,Lebanon and to take a visa to the states is very difficult especially now, you know about Iraq, a friend of mine who live in the states are telling me that it is very difficult to the arab person to get an invitation to any events, seminars.So I woulld like to know guys if you could help me to get an invitation to this seminar?.I know that my question came too late and the seminar will begin in the 7th of march,but I couldn't send a mail before because I was so busy to end my military service which was one year. Gaby Noufaily  ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:49:59 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] The Three Principles Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A couple of recent posts in regards to Hapkido have mentioned the "Three Principles". Would someone care to expound on this a bit? Craig "I'm a Gonna Learn Me Something" Stovall --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:57:55 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Patrick, Mike and others early Memories Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Patrick, I found your memories interesting, but somewhat different from my own. TKD was the primary martial art taught in my area, though almost everyone called it Korean Karate, for the name recognition. In 1972, my instructor and his instructor were doing every kick that I do now except 2, axe kick and diagonal kick. And I am now in TSD, so I don't fool with the stuff that has developed out of tkd competition in the last few years. We did a lot of work back then on spinning, jumping and jump spinning kicks at senior gup and bb level, particularly round, back, hook, wheel and crescent kicks. I remember that we pretty much dominated local tournaments because the japanese guys had never dealt with head kicks and backfists. Sparring looked a lot different too, because we used groin kicks and sweeps. I am pretty sure my instructor's master had not changed his cirruculum for many years. We did some basic joint locks back then, but the word Hapkido was never mentioned as I recall, and the vast overwhelming majority of techniques in our self defense was striking and kicking. Danny Dunn <<>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 14 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] The Three Principles To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 07:55:54 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > A couple of recent posts in regards to Hapkido have mentioned the "Three > Principles". Would someone care to expound on this a bit? Sure. In no particular order... Punch'em, Kick'em, Break'em up into tiny little pieces... :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 15 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 10:18:43 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Ellen's Experience Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ellen, Glad you posted your story and more so that you got through the situation. Your awareness,listening to your intuition and your response may have saved you the fate of the other person in your story. Your story also points out that it is the individual who must be reponsible for his or her own safety. I don't mean this as a slur on the LEO members, but the hardest thing to deprogram (especially in non-martial artist women) is the firm belief that the police should be your primary protection. Your example is the perfect illustration of why each individual must be responsible for his/her own safety. The only thing I can add for you, is start thinking about the possibility of these types of things happening and learn to evaluate your options and be ready to take action next time should the predators decide to come to you. Its too late to start thinking about this for the first time while its happening. Train hard, be prepared. Danny Dunn <<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustutkd1@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest