Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 17:36:02 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #107 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Hapkido Groundfighting (Stovall, Craig) 2. Police response/awareness (tntcombatives@attbi.com) 3. Tibetan Gophers et al (J.R. West) 4. Distraction Techniques (Rudy Timmerman) 5. Re: Re:_Further_Thoughts (Jye nigma) 6. Distraction Techniques (SEXTONR003@hawaii.rr.com) 7. RE>Houston seminar (MW) 8. injuries (MW) 9. RE>distractions (MW) 10. Re: Tibetan Gophers et al (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 10:28:25 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido Groundfighting Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I've heard mention (here and other places) that Hapkido contains a groundfighting element. I was just wondering how "extensive" it is, and the nature of the groundfighing. In other words, groundfighting can come in many different flavors. I imagine the focus is "non-sport". In other words, how to handle things when a "real fight" goes to the ground, as opposed to 50 different ways to sweep someone from the half guard. But, even within a "self-defense" mode for teaching groundfighting you can take several different approaches. The Judo modality of holding/pinning, strangulation, and joint manipulation is directly applicable to self-defense, IMHO...even though some self- defense "experts" poo-poo it as being nothing but a sport approach. Then you have the "model mugging" approach to groundfighting..."OK ladies, if the guy gets on top of you just grab his testes, and knee him in the coccyx like this". So, same subject, different approach. To add some order to this mess: 1. Positional dominance on the ground. Does it use the common positions used within the Judo/BJJ/Sambo frameworks...mount, side mount, guard (bottom scissor), scarf hold, north-and-south, etc. 2. What's the dominant approach to finishing a fight on the ground? Is it more striking oriented (pin them with the knee, and palm heel their melon), or submission oriented (strangulation and joint manipulation). In terms of the latter, how extensive does it get? Are we talking basic arm and shoulder locks, or do we run the full spectrum of upper body submissions, leg locks, neck cranks, etc. 3. Source arts. Assuming Hapkido has an extensive groundfighting tradition...what's the source art? Did the groundfighting come over from aiki-jujutsu along with the core of small joint manipulation? Any response would give some insight. Thanks!!! --__--__-- Message: 2 From: tntcombatives@attbi.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:37:39 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Police response/awareness Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> Greetings All, Ellen: Good for you for following up at the station. The above quote worries me. It worries me that the local PD may have no interest in possible dirtbags, and it worries me that you are in an area that the police may indeed be too busy to respond to suspicious activity. Either way, I have to give you a pat on the back. Many times, people simply don't get involved in their own protection. Police cannot be everywhere and see everything, and the more the public becomes involved, the more criminals get caught (or deterred), and the safer we all are. Police are allowed to stop and identify persons they reasonably believe-- are, are about to, or just have committed a crime. If the two guys Ellen saw caused her to think it was wrong, an experience officer probably would have felt the same way. I love when I get a call on suspicous activity or persons. Not only does it help with my reasonable suspicion, the call to the 911 center gives me a solid reason to respond and look for an arrest after using some of my hard trained TGT (Tibetan Gopher Throwing) on the badguys:-) Ellen won a fight. By recognizing the danger cues and listening to her own B.S. detector, she avoided being a victim and won one of the most important segments of street confrontations. Badguys look for victims and situations that will work in their favor. An alert and confident person is not easily victimized. More cudos to Ellen for calling the non-emergency number. 911 is for when there is a substancial threat to life. Although someone got victimized a few minutes later, there was no visible threat...only uneasyness on Ellen's part. Either way a call was made and non-emergency calls are usually answered by the same dispatchers that answer the 911 calls. Calling the non-emergency line may have indeed freed up a 911 call taker to talk to someone who badly needed help. Take Care, -- Mark Gajdostik TNT-Police Combatives 503-789-1356 --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "J.R. West" To: Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 10:47:14 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Tibetan Gophers et al Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > No mentions of the highly respected art of TGT in vols 1 thru 6 of the > list. The first mention here was by Gm West on Tue, 2 May 2000. > > Ray Terry I have been using the term "Tibetan Gopher Throwing" in my dojang for about 15 years to describe the makeup of a particular Kwan in Korean Martial Arts that relied more on talent/result than on style when teaching the ROK forces. I would say that if you were "good enough at 'Tibetan Gopher Throwing' ", then you would be accepted to teach under this Kwan. TGT was the most outrageous thing I could come up with at the moment and it just stuck, and has seemed to have developed a life of its' own, including the T-shirts, requests for breeding pairs of Tibetan Gophers and even some requests for certificates (Ray Terry was awarded 28th dan at the last seminar)....J. R. West www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 12:03:36 -0800 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Distraction Techniques Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Tom writes: > Is the use of distraction techniques basic to Hapkido? Hello Tom: There were a number of great answers to your question, and I'd like to add one more. I always tell my students to use everything in (or out of) the book whenever the need for action calls. There is no second chance, and the "I should have done this" can be fatal in a real confrontation. My philosophy on fighting is to stay away from it, or go full tilt to achieve maximum result with minimum effort. The situation dictates the choice. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:24:11 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re:_Further_Thoughts To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In chinese arts the term is inheritor of a system. You may see 14th generation inheritor of the such and such system. In traditional chinese arts, the ranking system is quite different then japense/korean ranking systems. You do hear these titles grandmaster, teacher, brother big brother, sister, big sister, disciple, and in some cases levels, i.e., 4th level. But now some chinese arts are adapting western ranking belt system. Jye --- bsims@midwesthapkido.com wrote: Call me Bruce and thanks for your response and for clearing up my misconceptions. Can you tell me a bit about the role of "successor" in your art. I have noticed that many Chinese arts (Tai Chi for instance) don't actually speak in terms of a successor as much as identify various individuals as coming from "generation" as in "Mr. Lee is a 14th generation practitioner of Chen Tai Chi". __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 6 From: To: Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 08:31:24 -1000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Distraction Techniques Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Michael Tomlinson wrote: "In most of the Sin Moo joint locks there is no need for a distraction technique, if you step right and pivot right, ie... triangle step, x step, balls of the feet, kiss toes step and lower your hip structure properly then you end up in a position where you don't need to "soften up your opponent" as many say you need to do> snip IMO, a kick can, or should be part of the step so there is little wasted motion with increased damage potential. Going from point A to point B, my foot slams your shin, steps on your foot, etc.. Without doing so it's just a "lost opportunity." It's not so much of a "softening technique" but part of my strategy to take you out from your head to your toes. if you are gonna slam someones knee really good with a Hapkido low kick then you really don't need the joint lock afterwards, just let them fall.... That's why I like the comprehensive art of HKD. I can kick during the joint lock application and may not even have to complete the joint lock..just hang on to it and let their falling body do the trick. And if it's a good day, maybe I can do 2-3 more techniques before they hit the ground. Randall Sexton --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: 28 Feb 03 13:32:24 -0600 From: MW To: the_dojang Subject: [The_Dojang] RE>Houston seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm hoping someone on the list can give me a little more insight to the houston (seabrook?) seminar. Specifically the date(s) and times , type(s) of arts (specifically the hapkido org's) and Masters/Instructors participating. Oh yeah, $$$'s? Any info will be greatly appreciated! thanks michael whalen KSWnut --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: 28 Feb 03 13:50:35 -0600 From: MW To: the_dojang Subject: [The_Dojang] injuries Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I know alot has been discussed on the recovery time from injuries in the 45+ crowd but I thought I'd pass this along. It has many applications however I find it fits the "injury dept" especially well in my case. A couple of weeks ago my wife (who is a MA also, but a little younger) put the following on our fridge: IN BATTLE I MAY BE HURT BUT I AM NOT SLAIN. I WILL LAY MYSELF DOWN AND BLEED AWHILE. THEN RISE UP AGAIN AND FIGHT SOME MORE I read it every time I pass the fridge, head out to work, or hit the dojang. michael whalen KSWnut --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: 28 Feb 03 15:13:34 -0600 From: MW To: the_dojang Subject: [The_Dojang] RE>distractions Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net < now low kicks are good, but if you have to rely on them to activate the joint lock then something is missing in your training> I'm don't totally disagree w/you on this Michael, just partially. I do agree that no technique should be totally dependant on them but feel that there are some instances where they are necessary. Such as when you have a huge difference in size, weight, muscle (or in real life that drug induced crackhead or drunk) sometimes the smaller,lighter, or weaker person needs just that little "edge" to give them that split-second advantage to execute. I personally am not that small (197 lbs) and every once in a while have had to throw in a little punch,kick, or such to get that manipulation going when I go up against a 275+ who is giving me major resistance. You also have those exceptions who have extremely high pain tolerances or great ranges of flexibility where compound locks may be needed just my thoughts............ michael whalen KSWnut --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Tibetan Gophers et al To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 17:22:29 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > T-shirts, requests for breeding pairs of Tibetan Gophers and even some > requests for certificates (Ray Terry was awarded 28th dan at the last > seminar)....J. R. West www.hapkido.com Come on now, tell the complete story... Prior to being awarded that rarefied level in TGT cert I had to (1) catch the vicious TG, (2) toss -her- (as is typical, the female TG is far more deadly and dangerous than the male), (3) catch her yet again, (4) field dress her, (5) prepare over an open camp fire, (6) and fully consume, w/unsweetened tea. After that I was told to go out on an all night snipe hunt and return the next morning with a dozen of the beasts in a burlap bag. On this last part I failed. I just couldn't locate any, else I would have supposedly received a 29th dan... :( Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustutkd1@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest