Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 16:31:02 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #108 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Tibetan Gophers et al (Wallace, John) 2. TGT's older history and Ray's rank (Dana Vaillancourt) 3. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_OUCH!!?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 4. old days (michael tomlinson) 5. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Pull_that_tongue_oughta_yer_cheek,_Ray!!_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 6. distraction (michael tomlinson) 7. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Pick_a_flavor_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 8. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Naked_Gophers=3F?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 9. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Location_Thoughts._?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 10. Re: RE>Houston seminar (bmac2) 11. Having a good product (J.R. West) 12. Re: Distraction Techniques (Michael Rowe) 13. Re: RE>Houston seminar (Braeswood Martial Arts) 14. Hapkido Groundfighting (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 15. Life in earlier times (d.mchenry@juno.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Wallace, John" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Tibetan Gophers et al Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 17:24:52 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I heard that 29th Dan was a posthumous award...or was it 31st? Damn prime numbers. I'd like to see those T-shirt images. I got some iron on thingies for my home PC that you can supposedly make T-shirts with. -----Original Message----- From: Ray Terry [mailto:rterry@idiom.com] After that I was told to go out on an all night snipe hunt and return the next morning with a dozen of the beasts in a burlap bag. On this last part I failed. I just couldn't locate any, else I would have supposedly received a 29th dan... :( --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.459 / Virus Database: 258 - Release Date: 2/25/2003 --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Dana Vaillancourt" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 02:12:17 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] TGT's older history and Ray's rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I like JR's version of how TGT got's its name, but I want to reprint my earlier history of the art (DD 10/25/00) and its evolution from Hapkido: Tibetan Gopher Throwing (TGT) grew out of a local adaptation of advanced Hapkido techniques. I am of course referring to dan requirements for stone and knife throwing. It is my understanding that poor Tibetans in wintry climates could not find stones or afford knives or repeatedly hurt themselves getting hit by these thrown objects, resulting in fewer and fewer students - - hence driving many instructors into seclusion. Gophers were thought to be heavy enough to weight train the arm and fat enough to have no rough edges. Also, it is my understanding that after a practice session, the meat was sufficiently softened for dinner, furthering the bond between student and master. This allowed the Masters to come back down into the villages and often be seen as sages and providers. Although there was the potential to get fat from eating many gophers from bad throws as a novice, chasing them down more than compensated. A whole complex socio-economic system resulting from adaptation of hapkido techniques. It is further my belief that JR met and trained under the last GM of the art when he was in Korea and is merely trying to capitalize on it here in America since many Americans also do not like to train with stones and knives. I have a sneaking suspicion that Ray got his last TGT rank promotion because he brings his knife to Mississippi and may actually have skinned and prepared 26 gophers in preparation of these famous buffets we are hearing about. All in fun! Dana _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 20:36:44 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_OUCH!!?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Rudy: "...BTW, back in the sixties, we did not even have mats. The demos we did were straight on the concrete most of the time, and our Dojang had old asbestos tiles as the workout floor....." Never again will I express curiousity about your back!! I think you just answered every question I could EVER come up with in that last post! :-) For myself I have been known to warm up with the odd breakfall and rolls on a hardwoord floor. All the same, if I have a choice between using mats or not, I take the mats every chance I can get! Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 02:59:21 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] old days Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I worked out as a youngin at Chung's Academy in Dayton Ohio in 1969, 1970 and later in 1977-78 and I guess he was different than what I am hearing on the board. He taught "korean karate", moo duk kwan,, on Mon thru Sat., taught Judo classes also on Tues, Thursday and Sat. and taught Hapkido on Fri and Sat. now all these classes were seperate and cost seperate prices,, he was a 6th dan MDK, 5th dan Hapkido, and 4th dan Judo way back in 1969 and was AWESOME,, we didn't do hoshinsul although I think most places did, he taught each art seperately and didn't mix them together into chop suey as Doju Nim Ji says... Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 20:55:00 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Pull_that_tongue_oughta_yer_cheek,_Ray!!_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Folks: "....> A couple of recent posts in regards to Hapkido have mentioned the "Three > Principles". Would someone care to expound on this a bit? Sure. In no particular order... Punch'em, Kick'em, Break'em up into tiny little pieces....... " Ray, Gawd love him, has favored (?) us with one take. :-) Let me also say that, like the use of Distraction, the Three Principles varies a bit from Hapkido style to Hapkido style. In Yon Mu Kwan these principles are itemized as The Water Principle, Point-&-Circle Principle and Economy of Motion Principle. GM Joon M Jee (International Hapkido Assn) lists "Harmony Principle, Circular Movement Principle, and Current Flow Principle". Yet again, Dr. Kimm He-Young identifies "Flowing Water", "Circle", and "Harmony" as his principles. Both HwaRangDo and KukSoolWon have their take on this. One will also find the same sort of variances with the "O- Gae" or Five Principles (AKA: "Five Principles of the HwaRang")which vary from art to art depending on how folks elect to translate from one language to another. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 03:15:24 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] distraction Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Guys don't get me wrong, I love low kicks, we practice them like crazy, we have someone hold a 75 pound heavy bag on the ground and we thump it like a baby seal on eskimo day,, BUT, a joint lock can and should work by your body positions and stepping, on a lot of joint locks if you are stepping correctly then the low kick actually slows you down!!!,, before I started working out with Doju Nim Ji I understood this philosophy but couldn't make it work all the time, and I would fall back to the "soften up technique",now IMHO I understand it much better just from the simple fact that he has helped me so much with my basic movement, we have a goofy saying with my guys that when you see good Hapkido it is like the person has alligator arms,, they are real short and the elbows are always tucked in close to the body while they are throwing or joint locking or choking, you add this with the stepping and corkscrewing your body and things become much more easy to accomplish, and I workout with some pretty aggressive nut bags,,, ask Master Nabors about a few of my crazies,, I also agree with Rudy, you can't say don't do this or that in a real fight,, then you just let it go and react intuitively,, BUT, you shouldn't have to rely on a disrtaction to make the joint lock work,, it you have to then you need to check your basics because I bet your stepping or arm and body position is wrong.... IMHO.. Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 21:07:34 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Pick_a_flavor_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Craig: ".....I've heard mention (here and other places) that Hapkido contains a groundfighting element. I was just wondering how "extensive" it is, and the nature of the groundfighing. In other words, groundfighting can come in many different flavors......" Hapkido does in fact have a decent range of grounded and ground-fighting techniques but the curriculum varied considerably from style to style. Speaking for Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido, grounded and ground-fighting techniques are interspersed throughout the curriculum with increasing frequency as one gets to higher and higher gup ranks. For instance in the hyung practice, the fifth hyung (Ki-Hap Hyung) begins with a grounded RH kick as the second move in the hyung and includes two grounded spinning heel kicks later in the same hyung. Grounded side-kicks, elbow strikes, straight-punches, RH kicks, spearhand thrusts and so forth are sprinkled throughout the curriculum and are usually associated with what I term "positions of disadvantage" which I catalogue with third degree BB techniques along with Cane practice. Just like all the other aspects of Hapkido, I have found no intention in the art to provide an exhaustive catalogue of every possible response to every possible situation. In this way, Hapkido does not have the sort of catalogue of ground-fighting that, say, Brazilian Ju-jutsu has. Just as with soh bong, MT hand, dan bong, cane and so forth, most people will be exposed to a representative range of techniques and will sooner or later find themselves drawn towards one or two aspects of the art in particular. In my own case I find considerable interest in MT hand, soh bong, dan bong and cane, but have really invested myself in sword. Someone else might find sword boring and go into MT Hand/ground fighting techniques with a vengence. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 21:17:22 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Naked_Gophers=3F?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray: "....Prior to being awarded that rarefied level in TGT cert I had to (1) catch the vicious TG, (2) toss -her- (as is typical, the female TG is far more deadly and dangerous than the male), (3) catch her yet again, (4) field dress her....." I take it that "dressing her" is what the tee-shirts are for, yes? Otherwise am I given to believe that you let gophers in your area run around without a stitch of clothes on? ;-) Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 21:24:39 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Location_Thoughts._?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Dakin: I didn't see a response to your thoughts on using the facilities at Indiana University and I understand what you are saying about its location well south of Chicago. Having taught seminars there, though, I must admit they have a very good set-up for holding an event and southern Indiana is still a fine central location. I'm not sure any option should be ruled in or out when considering organizing an event. I also think that I/U has a special advantage in that they have an environment in which KMA is a known activity. In contrast, it is not uncommon for me to have to do a mini- education on the nature of KMA with folks where I teach when suggesting an activity simply because KMA is a relatively unknown commodity. We ARE working on that, though! :-) Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 23:27:33 -0600 From: "bmac2" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE>Houston seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Michael; The Houston seminar is just around the corner from you. Hosted by Kat Kelly Braeswood Martial Arts 9606 Chimney Rock @ South Braeswood 713-283-6000 Grand Master Rudy Timmerman Saturday, July 23, 2003 $85.00 at the door/ save $20.00 by pre-registering special pricing for NKMAA members (date sensitive) We have already received confirmation by at least 3 area Masters that intend to join us that day, so it is sure to be a great day of training. Kat ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: MW Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: 28 Feb 03 13:32:24 -0600 >I'm hoping someone on the list can give me a little more insight to the >houston (seabrook?) seminar. Specifically the date(s) and times , type(s) of >arts (specifically the hapkido org's) and Masters/Instructors participating. >Oh yeah, $$$'s? >Any info will be greatly appreciated! >thanks >michael whalen KSWnut >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "J.R. West" To: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:16:56 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Having a good product Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > My Grandmaster has about 250 students in Ridgeland, MS. He has 4th > Dans teaching for him that have been with him since white belt. I've > been to his seminars about twice a year and quality is the feeling you > get. What he advises me is to keep teaching quality martial arts and > the success will come. I'd guess he's been teaching in the same > location 15 or 20 years, but you can ask him yourself as he's a list > member KJN J.R. West. Charles, thanx for the shameless plug. It is true, I maintain about 250 or so students, and have had up to 330 until I decided to not teach so many kids. The trick to longevity is a quality product, nothing more and nothing less. Regardless of how many "MA business" companies are behind you, and no matter how many books on success you read, it still comes down to producing better students than the McDojang down the street. I've been in the same location now for over 24 years (after 5 years of teaching at local college), and I would bet that I have seen at LEAST 4 or 5 schools close every year, most of them because they were too interested in making money, and not interested enough in teaching good martial arts. If you take the time to make each student as good as they can be, then the cash flow will take care of itself, but it takes a little time. I am constantly visited by students from other schools that walk in here to see what we are all about, and after looking at folks with good basic motion, begin to realize that maybe their own motion isn't quite what it should be. Take your time....produce a great product.....and you'll do just fine...J. R. West www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Michael Rowe" To: Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 07:25:06 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Distraction Techniques Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ".....Is the use of distraction techniques basic to Hapkido? In other words, is the need for a distraction technique generally required for some Hapkido techniques to work....." All Hapkido techniques has some distraction technique. Some have a distraction movement in that it unbalances the opponent - while a person is trying to maintain balance they can't be worrying about what you are doing to their wrist,elbow, or shoulder etc.. Some utilize a distraction in the form of a Kihap. Its amazing what a strong willed Kihap can do to the focus and concentration of an opponent. Some use words as a distraction - ask a question. My favorite has always been "what is your social security number?" It never fails to get a brief thought since it is a number everyone knows for themselves. Occasionally I have used a wink or blown a kiss to get a brief neural stun. And yes occasionally a distraction kick to the shins can help. Despite what some people say there are some techniques that once you know what's coming (by experience or sense of movement) you can resist either the entire technique or resist by giving a undesirable resulting movement to counter the technique. The distraction is a method of causing an individual to think of something else for a brief moment. Don't think of a counter, or what is about to happen. Combat Hapkido utilizes the distraction as a matter of habit. We don't necessarily have to use a kick it can be any of the above mentioned distractions as well. Another method of distraction is giving the appearance of reacting in a expected way while setting up a different counter motion. Overall Distractions are great complements to Hapkido techniques. Remember though a proper motion that causes a breaking of balance IS A DISTRACTION in itself. Much of what Michael Tomlinson described as using proper technique is very distracting when done properly. Michael Rowe --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Braeswood Martial Arts" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE>Houston seminar Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 09:21:01 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Whoops date typo... July 26th ----- Original Message ----- From: "bmac2" To: Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 11:27 PM Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE>Houston seminar > Hello Michael; > > The Houston seminar is just around the corner from you. > > Hosted by Kat Kelly > Braeswood Martial Arts > 9606 Chimney Rock @ South Braeswood > 713-283-6000 > > Grand Master Rudy Timmerman > Saturday, July 23, 2003 > $85.00 at the door/ save $20.00 by pre-registering > special pricing for NKMAA members (date sensitive) > > We have already received confirmation by at least 3 area Masters > that intend to join us that day, so it is sure to be a great day > of training. > > Kat > > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: MW > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: 28 Feb 03 13:32:24 -0600 > > >I'm hoping someone on the list can give me a little more insight > to the > >houston (seabrook?) seminar. Specifically the date(s) and times , > type(s) of > >arts (specifically the hapkido org's) and Masters/Instructors > participating. > >Oh yeah, $$$'s? > >Any info will be greatly appreciated! > >thanks > >michael whalen KSWnut > >_______________________________________________ > >The_Dojang mailing list > >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 10:40:45 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido Groundfighting Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Craig, let me refer you to the Hapkido Bible by Dr. Kimm He Young. Chapter 22. Zwaki and waki (defense from a sitting or lying posture) Also, Matt Hodges, one of Master West's yudanja at his dojang in Jackson is one of the meanest and most serious hapkido ground fighters I have seen. Last year at the 'International' he taught hapkido ground fighting. Jere R. Hilland www.hapkidoselfdefense.com PS. The following is from my website and is a PARTIAL list (with the terminology I use) of hapkido technique categories that I teach at my dojang: Striking techniques (kwonsul) Blocking techniques (makgisul) Kicking techniques (joksul) Falling methods (nakbop) Locking and pinning techniques (kwanjyelsul) Throwing techniques (yusul) Pressure point throws (jiabsul) Sitting techniques (zwaki) Ground techniques (waki) Choking techniques (mokjo leukisul) Counter techniques (tooki) Palm or ki strike techniques (pyungsul) Speed throws (junkwanbop) Striking pressure points (bangkwonsul) Kicking pressure points (bangjoksul) Attacking techniques (sunsul) Carrying or arresting techniques (yunhaingsul) Head butting techniques (bakchikisul) Knife techniques (dangumsul) Stick techniques (danbongsul) Staff techniques (bongsul) Sword techniques (gumsul) Cane techniques (jeepangesul) Rope or belt techniques (phobaksul) Fan techniques (boochaisul) --__--__-- Message: 15 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 18:13:10 -0600 From: d.mchenry@juno.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Life in earlier times Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jere wrote: <> My first instructor, Master Kim Chang-soo called his school "Kimuk's Dojang", but in very big letters he had "KOREAN KARATE - KUNG FU", he taught TaeKwonDo. "Kung Fu" was very popular on TV at the time, and if you were taking any martial arts people always asked if you knew "Kung Fu". He thought that people looking for a martial art were really looking for what he taught, not "Kung Fu". He thought Kung Fu were for 2 types of people, movie makers and lazy people :-) Mac ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustutkd1@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest