Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 03:01:49 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #109 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. groundfighting (Ray Terry) 2. Bon Q Park (Dr. Daryl Covington) 3. Hapkido groundfighting (michael tomlinson) 4. Yu Won Hwa (Rudy Timmerman) 5. Falling techniques (Rudy Timmerman) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 16:24:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] groundfighting Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Craig, let me refer you to the Hapkido Bible by Dr. Kimm He Young. Chapter > 22. Zwaki and waki (defense from a sitting or lying posture) Gm Ji also teaches sitting and lying techniques. But, imho HKD's sitting and lying techniques are not what one typically thinks of as "groundfighting". Judo's newaza or the majority of BJJ or Gotch's katch wrestling (Hooking) is what, again imo, one typically considers to be ground fighting. Given the highly eclectic nature and origins of HKD, I suspect some/many have integrated newaza and/or hooking into their HKD, but I don't believe we typically think of this style of groundfighting as part of HKD. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 17:32:09 -0800 (PST) From: "Dr. Daryl Covington" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Bon Q Park Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Is anyone familiar with Bon Q Park, who taught Hapkido Here in the states. He was supposedly a direct student of Choi. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 02:29:10 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido groundfighting Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In response to Craigs questions on Hapkido groundfighting let me answer YES and NO? Hapkido does have a pretty large technique base on groundfighting techniques, included are techniques done from a lying position, sitting positon on ground, from chairs etc.. along with your basic counter to mounted chokes etc.... that would be the YES part... Having studied and competed in Judo, wrestling(plus coaching this sport)and submission grappling I would have to say IMHO that groundfighting overall is the weakest link in the chain of Hapkido techniques... we fall, throw, joint lock and do kicking techniques with the best of them and IMHO better than MOST of them, but in most Hapkido schools I've known there is no set curriculum and practice of Hardcore grappling... basically just a quick glancing over of techniques, most dojangs get into the grappling position at hand and then practice the counter or joint lock without much resistance from their opponent, or they have their opponent all top heavy with no good base which is totally unlike what a savvy grappler would ever do, again "disecting the corpse" as Bruce Lee stated,, just from the ground. Now not knowing Craig personally but reading many of his posts I have come to some conclusions about him,,, 1, he grapples in his Judo training, 2, he understands some things about grappling by stating in one post that in real hardcore grappling there is a small base of techniques that work effectively almost every time, this is the kind of information that tells me that he has grappled for real because you don't come to these conclusions without a lot of practice yourself,, also, I recognized the techniques he talked about in that post and I KNOW from grappling that what he said is true,,, we grapple a lot when we practice,, we try to take the chain of technique from standing to joint lock, throw etc.. to the ground but then we like to say "what if?", in a perfect world every technique works,, but in the three dimensional combat world "what if" your opponent moves this way or that, what if that choke or arm bar, or wrist break is applied too late or loose and your opponent can move out of it? Well when this happens we keep on going and the thing turns into a grappling altercation complete with chokes, neck cranks, joint manipulations etc.. and we don't stop until it's over, or a teaching point can be made, I often yell Freeze and the two grapplers stop like freeze tag, and I make a point about some body position while they are frozen and then yell Go and hey pick it back up to one hundred percent. and at the end of every class we have a short grappling session also where we do wrestling drills to build speed, power, and ground sense, and then we have at it with short burst grappling,,, it's fun, and a heck of a workout. I also give Master Nabors a lot of credit,, he lets me come over to his dojang and teach grappling to his guys and they are great, they go hard and love the training, the grappling part of Hapkido is there it just needs a lot of practice and hardcore attitude, we basically teach and practice good ground sense, takedowns, speed and power drills, throws wrestling manuevers to set us up in a good dominant positions and then apply our Hapkido knowledge, such as chokes, joint locks, and a lot of head and neck cranks,,, plus all kinds of counters to everything I just stated... But we don't train in the static sense, we train in the dynamic sense with the feeling of "what if" in the back of our minds,,, when you can stop the person from thinking what if,, then you are definately getting better... hope this helps Craig,,, in reality,, My guys are Hapkido guys that train and grapple more like submission or Jujitsu guys,,, Michael Tomlinson www.zdragon.bitbytenibble.com _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 21:32:26 -0800 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Yu Won Hwa Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce writes: > the Three Principles varies a bit from > Hapkido style to Hapkido style The Yu, Won, Hwa principles are also part of the art of Kong Shin Bup and, like the balancing principle, I could not imagine performing our art without them as they form part of the whole philosophy of our art. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 21:20:04 -0800 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Falling techniques Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce writes: > Never again will I express curiousity about your back!! Hello Bruce. Actually my back problem is due to a work related accident at Sears where I repaired furniture. These days, I prefer not to use the mat because my left leg/foot is permanently weak as a result of that accident. The mat is not stable enough to work on, so the old method of training comes in handy for my students:) Re the Indiana suggestion by Dakin. This sounds like another great place for the folks who can easily reach that area; however, the location is a bit farther than I could use for the folks in this area. I am looking for something in the Toledo, OH, or Detroit, MI area, because these locations are at about the geographical center of a group of people I can count on for support. For anyone living closer to Indiana, I would suggest one of JRs events that are already established in that area. Rudy --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustutkd1@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest