Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 14:26:03 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #115 - 20 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Concerns about disease transmission (Denise Lee) 2. Re: Kicks (Denise Lee) 3. office workout (michael tomlinson) 4. Dealing with a threat (Rudy Timmerman) 5. Banquet and awards (Berkland, Victor (US - Omaha)) 6. Repetition (Rudy Timmerman) 7. Disease Transmission (Ken Legendre*) 8. Hapkido & Civility (FirstPe315@aol.com) 9. Re: Choson Kwon Bup & Okinawan Influence (Chosondo@aol.com) 10. knees and repetitive strain (Burdick, Dakin R) 11. RE: knees and repetitive strain (Wallace, John) 12. Re: knees and repetitive strain (Ray Terry) 13. Re: Just do it! (K. Barends) 14. A future Master is Born (Michael Rowe) 15. Re: Gentle and nice hapkido (K. Barends) 16. Kicks, Microbes and TKD (bob smith) 17. NYS Liscensing (Art VanVranken) 18. Re: A future Master is Born (Braeswood Martial Arts) 19. RE: Kicks, Microbes and TKD (Wallace, John) 20. RE: A future Master is Born (Wallace, John) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Denise Lee" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Concerns about disease transmission Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 10:27:47 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > . . . most pathogens die when exposed to air. But NOT all. This issue is much bigger in the martial arts than is generally considered. If there is any possibility of a "blood spill" -- on any surface -- the area should be disinfected with a solution of 1/4 cup of chlorine bleach to 1 gallon of water. (I think it's considered a 10% solution for smaller amounts.) Leave it on for at least 20 seconds. As a healthcare practitioner (RN) this issue is near and dear. Universal precautions RULE! Being careful does NOT mean you don't like someone. And, every person should be responsible for cleaning up his or her own "spill." Besides all that, while I'm on a roll, "the single, most effective means of preventing the spread of infection is handwashing." (minimum of 15 seconds of lather-scrubbing time). Given that we train in close quarters, with a lot of touching each other and breathing each other's air, this practice could go a long way to keeping each other healthier. Best to all- Denise --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Denise Lee" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Kicks Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 10:41:27 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > After 15 or 20 kicks of a particular type > > what is it that you think you are accomplishing (other than filling-up > > class time) when students are required to do the same kick over and over? I agree that sometimes it's just plain easier for an instructor to "revert" to repetition. But if it's purposeful, nothing helps a student "grind the stone" any better. It's repetition with awareness that's relevant, no? What was that phrase attributed to KJN Hwang Kee? "Practice your reverse punch 10 hours a day for 3 years, and then you might just have something there?" Well, he said something like that . . . ;) Just my .01 -- Denise --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 15:46:16 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] office workout Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net One really good exercise is to put two hard seated chairs side by side and leave just enough room between them for your body to fit,, put your palms on these chairs, feet on the floor and do sets of push ups,, in reality these are decline push ups even though they don't look like it,, do sets of whatever I think I did 25 to 30 a set, and do them all day long,, you might need to put the backs of the chairs against the walls because they slide sometimes,,, at one time in my past software salesman days I did these every day at the office and got to the point of doing about 3 to 4 hundred a day,,, I hadn't benched in about a year up to that point because of an injury. After doing these pushups for about 4 months I went to the gym and benched 225 lbs. 19 times on my first set!! So I know these pushups help... Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:45:41 -0800 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Dealing with a threat Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Vic writes: > Threat Pile 2 = He is hostile or angry, but not murderous, and needs > to be > restrained so he won't hurt anyone. These responses move towards > control > and arrest tactics, joint locks, come alongs, restraints, etc. Hello Vic: IMHO, it takes a lot of people skill to know what is on a person's mind, and I would just as soon take for granted that any threat is serious enough to warrant extreme measures. Even if murder is NOT on the attacker's mind, an accident can be just as fatal as an intent. The limits of the action you take depend on the situation, but most often there is no time for mind reading. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Berkland, Victor (US - Omaha)" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 08:58:38 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Banquet and awards Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net We are planning the first annual banquet, open to students and family. Our school is maybe 30 students, so not too big. As an adult student, I would like to take some extra initiative to make the event successful. Do you have any suggestions for the event, particularly concerning different types of awards we might give to students? The event will be at the local high school and Master Bridges is requesting suit and tie. And finally, anything special you might suggest to Roast the Master? Thank you all. Victor This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 12:06:46 -0800 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Repetition Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray writes: > Well, geez, you don't need to do 400 front kicks with each leg per > practice. > There are a score or two of different kicks that people will practice. > 6 > or 10 each, per leg, a dozen or two or three different kicks and you > might > be starting to warm-up. Then maybe a few doubles and triples and you > might > be sweating a bit... I agree with you 100 percent Ray. As Tim stated in his explanation of the test, we only do about 10 kicks per leg for each kick. Given that the biomechanics of these kicks vary, the actual repetition of the motion is not nearly as great as Bruce might think. Variation of any action is not only essential to prevent injuries, it also prevents students from being bored to tears. Sufficient repetition, IMHO, is the foundation of committing an action to muscle memory, and homework goes only so far. Look at the "want ads" in any paper and see how much exercise equipment is for sale. Most people lack the self-discipline to work out at home. In the end, teaching proper mechanics and correcting mistakes before the wrong things are learned is essential. Unfortunately, some instructors don't have a clue what a safe kick or punch entails. Not only does a kick or punch have to be executed properly, we must also train the body to strengthen the areas that are susceptible to injury. A good school owner will have a good safety program in place, and he is ultimately responsible to educate his Instructors in all areas of safe practice. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:40:32 -0600 From: Ken Legendre* To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Disease Transmission Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello All, I Work in a medical laboratory, and what the safety officer actually tells us is that its not considered an exposure unless there is open skin. What that means is that you skin is actually a very good protective barrier. That doesnt mean that it cant be transmitted through your skin, just that it is very unlikely. As far as precautions I think that wiping down the bags occasionally, as well as not doing anything on the bags if you have an open sore would be good advice. I hope you all realize that Im not a Dr. nor do I play one on TV, but these rpecautions will go a long way in preventing disease transmission. Thanks Ken Legendre innae@netexpress.net 3rd Dan TKD 5th Gup HKD Lab Peon --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 12:47:55 -0500 From: FirstPe315@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido & Civility Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Klaas - You can always take up Aikido..."The Non-Violent" Martial-Art. Jeff In a message dated 3/4/2003 12:05:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > But we are civilized people, aren't we? --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Chosondo@aol.com Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 12:55:33 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Choson Kwon Bup & Okinawan Influence Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 3/4/2003 10:20:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > I wonder if the art that you practice--- despite its > Korean name--- could be more closely associated with Japanese traditions > rather than Korean? Have you any additional thoughts on the origins of > Choson-Do along these lines? > > Bruce, make no mistake about it, the art is Korean. However, according to what was passed on to me with respect to CKB's history and early technical make-up, there was an Okinawan influence. To what degree this influence affected the art, I do not know. As to the question of specfically which Okinawan art, this to is questionable. My sense is that whoever studied on Okinawa actually studied a Chinese martial art (quite possibly Southern White Crane and/or Xing Yi Chuan). I hope this helps. Ian A. Cyrus, Headmaster ICF: www.chosondo.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 13:09:54 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] knees and repetitive strain Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have to agree with Bruce on this one. I too have seen way too many tkders taken out by this sort of injury. I remember one of my favorite sparring buddies, who had to quit martial arts when he was 23. He had worn holes in his hipbones and had to have inserts put in there so he could stand up. There are lots of other examples. KICKS I DO LIKE: Air kicks for speed or power (includes kicking porkchop pads) Kicking high Breaking Air kicking for twenty minutes KICKS I DO LIKE: Low kicks, performed softly kicking a heavy bag, hard point sparring (for full-contact, the hands and elbows make a lot more sense) sticky legs Ray, are doing all those kicks into the air, a porkchop, or into a heavy pad? If the first two, I think I have to disagree with you. If the latter, cool. Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Wallace, John" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] knees and repetitive strain Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:03:05 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dakin: I'm assuming that first category would be Kicks I DON'T like? Respectfully -JW -----Original Message----- From: Burdick, Dakin R [mailto:burdickd@indiana.edu] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 10:10 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] knees and repetitive strain I have to agree with Bruce on this one. I too have seen way too many tkders taken out by this sort of injury. I remember one of my favorite sparring buddies, who had to quit martial arts when he was 23. He had worn holes in his hipbones and had to have inserts put in there so he could stand up. There are lots of other examples. KICKS I DO LIKE: Air kicks for speed or power (includes kicking porkchop pads) Kicking high Breaking Air kicking for twenty minutes KICKS I DO LIKE: Low kicks, performed softly ... --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.459 / Virus Database: 258 - Release Date: 2/25/2003 --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] knees and repetitive strain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:16:54 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > KICKS I DO LIKE: > ... > KICKS I DO LIKE: > ... I suspect one of those should have been a DON'T instead of a DO.?.?. When doing air kicks, go about 3/4 speed or less. Focus more on form. Full speed and full power air kicks can be rather hard on the knees, esp over time. Doing kicks in slow motion can be very difficult and good for development. Kicking the air shield or muay thai pads or heavy bag or hogu wearing partner is good. Because of very bad ankles (from toooo many ankle sprains on the basketball court) I tend to not kick the heavy bag too hard with my feet and focus more on hard knees and shin kicks. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 21:20:21 +0100 From: "K. Barends" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Just do it! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I'm not sure that I agree with that. Perhaps you can give me some > explanation as to why you would require students to do hundreds of > kicks? Just do it, and the explanation will follow. Right now, you sound like the white belt who wonders 'but what if I do this?' right after you explained your first very very basic self defence technique. They don't grasp the whole idea. Neither do you, if you wonder why you should kick a couple of hundred times to get a good kick. What a devastating kick? pick your favorite, and practice it 1000 times a day, for the period of one year. Then come back and ask questions. -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Michael Rowe" To: Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 14:25:21 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] A future Master is Born Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sean Patrick Rowe Born 3/4/2003 at 5:18 am 9 pounds 8.7 ounces 21 inches Mother, Baby, and Father are doing great Thanks for the prayers and positive thoughts. Michael Rowe --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 21:48:02 +0100 From: "K. Barends" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Gentle and nice hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > If our students do not know when and how to apply violence to survive, > then > we are failing them. Hapkido then becomes a demonstration art, not a > set > of survival tactics. The discussion started about some school where they had to kick every time before they could apply another technique. If you want to learn your students proper selfdefence, the above mentioned techniques are the worst kind of cr@p you can give them. It means they will *never* get insight in what Michael(?) told about body movement, right steps etc. Which means they don't learn proper hapkido, which makes it maybe nice for demonstration but certainly not for good selfdefence. You certainly don't have to be nice to a real attacker in the street. But as soon as you would have the possibilty to kill or disable him for life, you allready are in control of the situation and there is IMHO no need to kill or disable for life in a situation you can handle. Otherwise, just buy a gun, it will save you a lot time and a lot of sweat. I think it's a misconception when people think that the more softer styles of hapkido are easier and less painfull. In my own experience, it's the other way around. You have endure a lot more if you want to achieve anything in a soft martial art. -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 16 From: "bob smith" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 14:57:13 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Kicks, Microbes and TKD Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good Day KMA People, Where to start on todays topics. If you practice TKD you must kick! It is our strength. I agree 400 plus a session leaves no time for sparring, forms , self defense, braking etc. At my school we tend to break it up. We all start with kicks and hand strikes for about twenty minutes then move into various groups depending on rank. Lower belts more kicking, higher more combinations of hand and foot. Then to other areas, including knowing all minimal Korean terms for what we are doing. Part of "out" testing. As for Microbes, now your talking my language. There are everywhere! Good schools should practice simple sanitizing procedures. Strep, Staph, Bacillus the list goes on WILL NOT DIE IN THE AIR. One gallon of water, two ounces of Sodium Hyperchlorite (now I am showing off) bleach and a quick wipe with a clean rag will kill most pathogenic (the ones to worry about)bacteria. I usually wrap my knuckles in tape. My wife does not think bloody knuckles are sexy anymore! Finally, the reason TKD people kick so much is to keep those darn Hapkido guys far enough away so they cannot grab you. Bob Smith, The Smith TKD Family _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 --__--__-- Message: 17 From: "Art VanVranken" To: Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 16:00:59 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] NYS Liscensing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net It would probably do as good to check backgrounds of MA Instructors as much as checking on Priests. We have had numerous cases of MA Instructors sampling the wares of teenage students in this area. Heard of one School where the Master tried to chase the male students away to keep all the females for himself. Obviously this school no longer is in business. --__--__-- Message: 18 From: "Braeswood Martial Arts" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] A future Master is Born Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 15:59:25 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net WOW!!! Congratulations!!! My Sean came in at 9 pounds 8 ounces Oct. 1996, so please tell your lovely wife I know how she feels :) Congratulations again on your new joy. Kat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Rowe" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 2:25 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] A future Master is Born > Sean Patrick Rowe > Born 3/4/2003 at 5:18 am > 9 pounds 8.7 ounces > 21 inches > > Mother, Baby, and Father are doing great Thanks for the prayers and positive > thoughts. > > Michael Rowe > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 19 From: "Wallace, John" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Kicks, Microbes and TKD Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 13:51:01 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If only it were true, Bob - unfortunately those sneaky Hapkido guys have stolen our kicks too! Oh, that would be sodium hypOchlorite (NaOCl), the 5% solution of which is good ol Chlorox bleach. On a related point, how many of the dojang owners on the list sanitize their Swain flooring? It used to be a black belt chore at our school since we’re the last class of the day (keeps you humble too), but they've stopped volunteering us recently. The mats are looking a little worse for wear from all the bleach. I think the owner backed off the schedule to once a week and does it himself... -JW I Dan, TKD Fremont, CA -----Original Message----- From: bob smith [mailto:phaphio@msn.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 12:57 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Kicks, Microbes and TKD As for Microbes, now your talking my language. There are everywhere! Good schools should practice simple sanitizing procedures. Strep, Staph, Bacillus the list goes on WILL NOT DIE IN THE AIR. One gallon of water, two ounces of Sodium Hyperchlorite (now I am showing off) bleach and a quick wipe with a clean rag will kill most pathogenic (the ones to worry about)bacteria. I usually wrap my knuckles in tape. My wife does not think bloody knuckles are sexy anymore! Finally, the reason TKD people kick so much is to keep those darn Hapkido guys far enough away so they cannot grab you. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.459 / Virus Database: 258 - Release Date: 2/25/2003 --__--__-- Message: 20 From: "Wallace, John" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] A future Master is Born Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 14:01:38 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Those are some big boys! My daughter was that long when she was born, but tipped the scales at just over 6lbs. I think she hit 9 lbs at about 2-3months. Congrats Mike. -JW -----Original Message----- From: Braeswood Martial Arts [mailto:BMAC2@ev1.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 1:59 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] A future Master is Born WOW!!! Congratulations!!! My Sean came in at 9 pounds 8 ounces Oct. 1996, so please tell your lovely wife I know how she feels :) Congratulations again on your new joy. Kat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Rowe" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 2:25 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] A future Master is Born > Sean Patrick Rowe > Born 3/4/2003 at 5:18 am > 9 pounds 8.7 ounces > 21 inches > > Mother, Baby, and Father are doing great Thanks for the prayers and positive > thoughts. > > Michael Rowe --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.459 / Virus Database: 258 - Release Date: 2/25/2003 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustutkd1@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest