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<<------------------   The_Dojang mailing list   ------------------>>

Serving the Internet since June 1994.
Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource

The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts.

See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine
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Pil Seung!

Today's Topics:

   1. Some more thoughts for Bruce (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON)
   2. Re: Just do it! (Ali Alnasser)
   3. Re: Gentle and nice hapkido (Ali Alnasser)
   4. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Licensure_Citation_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com)
   5. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Limitations?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com)
   6. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Kudo-s_to_Rudy?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com)
   7. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_I_think_that_is_a_bit_more_reasonable,_yes=3
       F_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com)
   8. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Just_a_thought...?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com)
   9. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Cigars_all_the_way_around!!_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com)
  10. Sean Patrick Rowe (Hapkido Self Defense Center)
  11. RE: distraction techniques (S. H. WEE)
  12. Re: Disease Transmission (Chuck Mattern)
  13. The Big Chill Was: Disease Transmission (Chuck Mattern)
  14. NY   Martial Arts Licensing (Tony Preston)
  15. Herb Perez Seminar (Joe Gorges)

--__--__--

Message: 1
From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" <danny.dunn@us.army.mil>
To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'"
  <the_dojang@martialartsresource.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 16:34:46 -0600 
Subject: [The_Dojang] Some more thoughts for Bruce
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Bruce,

<<<<<<<<I think what we are talking about here is a matter of degree.>>>>>>>>>>>


Maybe we are if you are talking about 400 of every kick.  But even so, my normal
adult classes include 20, sometimes 30 reps, equally split with left and right
of all, or a select set of basic kicks, which could range from 12 to about 20.
Now depending on the particular focus for the night, I might have 4th gups doing
double action kicks for half or more of those, and 2nd gups and up doing triple
actions for half or more of the basics.  Then, depending on where I think we
need to focus,  we might work on combinations either with partners or on the
floor, usually by 10 sets per side for maybe 5 combos, or we might work on
speed(reaction time really)either with partners or without, same numbers, or we
might work rounds on the bag, or we might work on focus for particular kicks, or
we might work through jump or jump spinning kicks, or we might work on form on a
particular kick or set of kicks. Then there are forms and sparring.  Two of the
prime training mantras in TSD are always practice basics and practice all
techniques already learned.  So for a dan, they may well close in on a thousand
kicks regularly in class.

<<<<<<<<NOW we know about "repetitive motion" 
syndromes>>>>>>>>>>>>

I have to agree with Ray and Rudy.  I don't believe it is a problem as long as
kicks are done with good form.  Why?  I have bad knees stemming from other
things, and regular kicking helps me keep moving. 

<<<<<<<<How about Korean language? >>>>>>>>>>>

I personally like it, and teach Korean terminology in my school. Do I think it
is necessary in order to learn the art?  No, I don't.  But I have found that if
everyone knows the appropriate Korean terminology, it makes things go smoother
at international events where everyone doesn't speak english. 

<<<<<<Finally, I think you are probably right about tougher training. I honestly

believe that we need to push our students (and ourselves) to make and 
maintain a "personal best". The key to this, however, is a matter of each 
student being pressed to find THEIR personal best. As I write this I am 
thinking of Master West' student Matt. HIS personal best would probably 
shadow most other peoples' but then, that is the limits HE is striving for. 
It is not an easy thing being a teacher as it is more than simply exposing 
everybody to a one-size-fits-all curriculum. FWIW.>>>>>>>>>>

This was not from me.  However, my take is this.  We need to set high standards
for our students.  If we set high standards, and show our students how to
achieve them, we teach them how to be successful in everything they do.  If we
make class a piece of cake, what will the next generation of martial artists
receive, how will they be trained?  And this is another issue.  I don't believe
that everyone will have the same ability, even after they get their black belt
or the one after that.  But everyone should be held to a high minimum standard.
I tell my students the minute they say they can't, they give themselves
permission not to try, and therefore to fail.  And as unpopular as it may seem,
I don't think everyone can or should have a black belt.  After all, my black
belts and your black belts are our legacies in the martial arts.  And for better
or worse, they will tell the world what our standards are and were.   

Danny Dunn

--__--__--

Message: 2
From: "Ali Alnasser" <hankido2000@hanmail.net>
To: <the_dojang@martialartsresource.net>
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 07:40:09 +0900 (KST)
Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Just do it!
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Klaas <>

GM Myung Jae Nam stressed this concept quite often with his students.

I've been told to practice various techniques at least 1,000 times per
day, everday for the next three years and then the technique will explain
itself.

[TABLE NOT SHOWN][TABLE NOT SHOWN][IMAGE]

--__--__--

Message: 3
From: "Ali Alnasser" <hankido2000@hanmail.net>
To: <the_dojang@martialartsresource.net>
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 07:49:52 +0900 (KST)
Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Gentle and nice hapkido
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Klass: <styles of hapkido are easier and less painfull.
In my own experience, it's the other way around. You have endure a lot
more if you want to achieve anything in a soft martial art.>>

I've always been told in Hapkido you shouldn't break your opponents bone
but rather apply enough pain to control your opponent. IMHO, I think its
easier to break someones wrist, joint, etc. but its harder to control
yourself from not breaking their bone. This in my opinion, is what makes
someone a wondeful martial artist.

Just my two cents!

[TABLE NOT SHOWN][TABLE NOT SHOWN][IMAGE]

--__--__--

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 16:38:18 -0600 (CST)
From: <bsims@midwesthapkido.com>
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Licensure_Citation_?=
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Dear Neal: 

"....What was the source of this little gem?...." 

That was a cut&paste citation from the previous DD vol. I think a search of 
the most recent vol-s will turn up the original submission. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce 

--__--__--

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 16:42:25 -0600 (CST)
From: <bsims@midwesthapkido.com>
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Limitations?=
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Dear Andrew: 

".....Hard though this is for me to say this but I have to agree with Bruce 
on this one (Hi Bruce! ;-P )...." 

OK, but if you start making a habit of agreeing with my thoughts, Gawd 
knows where it will take us.  You already have me reading Palais, but I 
will have to draw the line at burning incense in front of your photograph.
:-) !! 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce 

--__--__--

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 16:50:26 -0600 (CST)
From: <bsims@midwesthapkido.com>
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Kudo-s_to_Rudy?=
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Dear Rudy: 

"...Our tests are simply a 
way to make sure that my students are as good as any out there.  Sorry 
for taking so much space, but Bruce always asks a lot of good 
questions:)...." 

As always you are patient and gracious under fire. Thanks for taking the 
time to explain the thoughts behind this in such detail. I hope I was able 
to verbalize for the more lurk-prone thoughts they might have had on their 
minds but might not wanted to come forward to ask. As contradictory as it 
might sound I know, also, that one role of the teacher is to continue to 
press for the best performance from ones students and the reward is a 
sincere investment and feeling of accomplishment (for teacher and student 
both) when the dust settles. 

Thanks again, Rudy. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce 

--__--__--

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 16:56:28 -0600 (CST)
From: <bsims@midwesthapkido.com>
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_I_think_that_is_a_bit_more_reasonable,_yes=3
 F_?=
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Dear Ray: 

".....Well, geez, you don't need to do 400 front kicks with each leg per 
practice.
There are a score or two of different kicks that people will practice.  6
or 10 each, per leg, a dozen or two or three different kicks and you might
be starting to warm-up.  Then maybe a few doubles and triples and you might
be sweating a bit..." 

Now thats a typical class I think most folks could live with and I would 
even throw in some power training every other class. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce 

--__--__--

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 17:04:50 -0600 (CST)
From: <bsims@midwesthapkido.com>
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Just_a_thought...?=
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Dear Dakin and Ray: 

".....Kicking the air shield or muay thai pads or heavy bag or hogu wearing 
partner 
is good.  Because of very bad ankles (from toooo many ankle sprains on the 
basketball court) I tend to not kick the heavy bag too hard with my feet 
and focus more on hard knees and shin kicks....." 

I tend to advocate the use of kicking shields rather than a heavy bag for 
power training. This goes in capital letters for folks just starting to 
learn spin-kicks and who have yet to internalize proper distance and focus. 
As I write this I am thinking of Rudy's post about his elbow and 
generalizing it to a neophytes knee or ankle. FWIW. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce 

--__--__--

Message: 9
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 17:09:38 -0600 (CST)
From: <bsims@midwesthapkido.com>
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Cigars_all_the_way_around!!_?=
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Dear Michael: 

".....Sean Patrick Rowe
> Born 3/4/2003 at 5:18 am
> 9 pounds 8.7 ounces
> 21 inches
>
> Mother, Baby, and Father are doing great Thanks for the prayers and
positive
> thoughts......" 

Congratulations not only for a new addition to the family but the blessing 
of health for your wife as well. She has weathered things well, yes? 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce 

--__--__--

Message: 10
From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" <hkd@fuse.net>
To: <the_dojang@martialartsresource.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 19:08:28 -0500
Subject: [The_Dojang] Sean Patrick Rowe
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Michael:

Congratulations to you and your wife. Jere R. Hilland
www.hapkidoselfdefense.com

Sean Patrick Rowe
Born 3/4/2003 at 5:18 am
9 pounds 8.7 ounces
21 inches

--__--__--

Message: 11
From: "S. H. WEE" <shinhoe@pc.jaring.my>
To: <the_dojang@martialartsresource.net>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 08:45:37 +0800
Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: distraction techniques
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Dear Michael,

I agreed that with proper techniques you do not need distraction. However,
there are times when your opponents are simply too strong, met a guy who was
a bulldozer operator (the ancient type without power-assisted steering) with
wrists like tree trunk, there is no way I can turn his hands wihout any
distractions. Or when facing boxer-type in real-time sparrings, it is next
to impossible to apply joint-lockings without any disctraction to slow down
the movements of their limbs.

My two cents worth.

S. H. Wee


> Message: 2
> From: "michael tomlinson" <tomlinson_michael@hotmail.com>
> To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 22:48:19 +0000
> Subject: [The_Dojang] distraction techniques
> Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
>
> In most of the Sin Moo joint locks there is no need for a distraction
> technique, if you step right and pivot right, ie... triangle
> step, x step,
> balls of the feet, kiss toes step and lower your hip structure
> properly then
> you end up in a position where you don't need to "soften up your
> opponent"
> as many say you need to do, I know of one style of
> " Hapkido" that does a low kick before almost every joint lock, now low
> kicks are good, but if you have to rely on them to activate the
> joint lock
> then something is missing in your training, also your opponent is
> not gonna
> stand there so you can "disect a corpse" as Bruce Lee so
> eloquently put it
> years ago, fighting happens in a three dimensional world so you
> have to be
> fluid yet strong and precise with your stepping and body positioning,, my
> two cents anyway,  "if you don't know how to step on the joint locks then
> you pretty much have to use a distraction technique" and if you are gonna
> slam someones knee really good with a Hapkido low kick then you
> really don't
> need the joint lock afterwards, just let them fall....
>                        Michael Tomlinson
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

--__--__--

Message: 12
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Disease Transmission
From: Chuck Mattern <camattern@acm.org>
Date: 04 Mar 2003 20:08:55 -0500
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Ken Legendre* <innae@netexpress.net> writes:

> I Work in a medical laboratory, and what the safety officer actually tells us 
> is that its not considered an exposure unless there is open skin. What that 
> means is that you skin is actually a very good protective barrier.

> As far as precautions I think that wiping down the bags occasionally, 
> as well as not doing anything on the bags if you have an open sore would be 
> good advice.

Thanks for the feedback.  I'll talk to some other folks in the medical
field but so far this seems to be the consensus.

Chuck
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
|Chuck Mattern	        | "People often find it easier to be a result |
|camattern@acm.org      | of the past than a cause of the future."    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

--__--__--

Message: 13
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
From: Chuck Mattern <camattern@acm.org>
Date: 04 Mar 2003 22:01:33 -0500
Subject: [The_Dojang] The Big Chill Was: Disease Transmission
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

<bsims@midwesthapkido.com> writes:

> If I had to read between the lines, I am guessing that someone who is 
> asking about such things has an issue not so much with the possibility for 
> disease transmission as much as having a condition transmitted to THEM.

As I noted earlier I asked my original question in a vague manner.
What I did not take the time to say this morning is that it was
intentionally vague.  I have posted here a few times, read a fairly
good deal of times and have seen the lay of the land.  I have no real
problems with conflict and have a relatively thick skin (10 years in
retail security management, another 10 in Unix system administration)
and have been around newsgroups and mailing lists for a while (4 years
running a multi line BBS with Fido, Rime and Intellec and I served as
the first moderator of the Intellec MA conference (anyone here old
enough to remember dial up BBSes?) as well as spending many years on
Usenet) nor am I a stranger to KMA (about 20 years in TKD, 7 of them
instructing in exchange for tuition).  None of this makes me special,
all of it goes to why I was vague.

Having had my fill of conflict over the years I usually seek to walk
past it.  Conflict is inevitable in life but much can be skipped by
simply not making issues where they are not necessary.  Thus rather
than kick over another bandwidth wasting religious hornet's nest by
stating that I am in the exploratory stages of setting up a dojang
under the auspices of a Christian church I chose to ask a simple
question about protecting my generic students from communicable
diseases and skip all other details.  The people who will help fund
the dojang are not pertinent to the question.  The kids I hope to
teach, some of whom have come up on the street and are at slightly
higher risk for some of the scarier diseases are not pertinent to the
question.  I am not ashamed of what I am up to, I am not about to be
deterred from it, I just figured we'd seen enough of the stuff about
whether this is an appropriate place for religious dialog and unless I
have something come up where religion and the MA seem to have a direct
intersection I will not bring it up.  I got some very useful and
constructive responses and am thankful for all of them.  In fact
Bruce's response was constructive in it's common sense observations,
some of which I will most likely put into the agreement that my
students will sign when they join.

However after all these years of having been brought along by my
seniors and some years of bringing along my juniors in several fields
I feel compelled to make the following request.  Please realize that
there are lots of newbies in the world, white belts, rookies,
whatever.  They look for a clean well lit place where they feel safe
to ask questions and grow.  This is one extremely clean and well lit
place.  I wish that I could have maintained the Intellec MA conference
as well as this one is.  I will not ask why Bruce felt compelled to
add to an otherwise helpful post the quoted sentence above complete
with a shouted "THEM" in what seems to me to be an attempt to somehow
belittle the poster.  I will simply point out that people with thinner
skin are watching, they will see what you type and they will be
chilled.  In spite of my aforementioned thick skin, rather than get
things stirred up again I tried to walk around it and even without
anything that I thought was likely to get a swipe, there it was.  Lest
this all seem petty (and in reality the annoyance generated here was
minor compared to some of the conflicts of days gone by) or equal to
the amount of bandwidth spent on the religious debate, it just seemed
that it was time to repeat what was told to me more than a few years
ago: 

        "The Juniors are watching, they will see what you do.  They
        will be inspired, deterred, formed or malformed but they will
        never be unaffected.  Be mindful of what you do, you are a
        stone in someone's pond and for good or ill your ripples will
        have consequences."

I'm done now and will walk away, my thanks to anyone who had the
fortitude to read this far.  I will continue to follow my mission, to
post when I have a question, answer or observation that I feel worthy
and to enjoy this clean well lit place.  Let's try to keep it
comfortable for all, even the new and less secure folks and the ones
with thin skin, we were all there once.

Regards,
Chuck
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
|Chuck Mattern	        | "People often find it easier to be a result |
|camattern@acm.org      | of the past than a cause of the future."    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

--__--__--

Message: 14
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 22:13:25 -0500
From: Tony Preston <apreston@comcast.net>
To: "the_dojang@martialartsresource.net"
  <the_dojang@martialartsresource.net>
Subject: [The_Dojang] NY   Martial Arts Licensing
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

They tried it in NJ and the bill never got anywhere...  It pays to contact your
representatives and explain that martial arts is not an easily regulated activity
since there are many styles and arts there is no way a board can decide if a
person is qualified.  How can a Judo guy evaluate a kung fu instructor...

In NJ someone suggested they honor the software professional because there
are so many working here...  That got a bill started and then modified and
eventually they proposed a bill to regulate the software industry so that you
could not write software without a license...  I suggest this might be a similar
idea gone bad, but you must be proactive and find out what the bill number
is and write your representative with a step by step explination of the problems
with the bill.  I did that for the software bill and a similar NJ martial arts bill.

Don't let them think it is a good idea, make sure they know it is a bad one!

Best regards. 

Tony Preston
Cancer is Curable, Ask me why!
apreston@comcast.net
2003-03-04

--__--__--

Message: 15
From: "Joe Gorges" <yomchi247@hotmail.com>
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 20:34:39 -0600
Subject: [The_Dojang] Herb Perez Seminar
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Herb Perez ,1992 Olympic Gold Medalist in Taekwondo
is doing a seminar March 21, 6:00 pm. - the day before the Midwest Open. It 
is going to be held in Des Moines, Iowa. More inforamtion is available at 
www.farrellsusma.com








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--__--__--

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