Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 20:12:02 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #118 - 21 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. bloodborne & other pathogens / parks & rec update (tntcombatives@attbi.com) 2. RE: bad kick - good kick (Wallace, John) 3. Grits (J.R. West) 4. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Authorization_Question_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 5. Craig "Peace Man" Stovall's philosphy (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 6. Civil Hapkido (SEXTONR003@hawaii.rr.com) 7. RE: Intellect, Intelligence, and Survival (Ali Alnasser) 8. Gentle Hapkido (Patrick L) 9. Bacteria & Bleach (bob smith) 10. going south!! (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 11. Re: civilized hapkido (last time) (K. Barends) 12. Re: Intellect, Intelligence, and Survival (Ray Terry) 13. NYS Licensing (Art VanVranken) 14. Grits with weapons (Charles Richards) 15. Grandmaster Gedo Chang (Donald Pillow) 16. Re: going south!! (Braeswood Martial Arts) 17. Re: 200-300 kicks (Oludipe Tolulope) 18. Re: Intellect, Intelligence, and Survival (Warrior Spirit Martial Arts) 19. Judged by twelve.... (Eric Walker) 20. list slow ?? (Ray Terry) 21. Re: Kicking (Richard Zaruba) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: tntcombatives@attbi.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 17:33:16 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] bloodborne & other pathogens / parks & rec update Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings All, Usually, once a week, I go over the workout floor with one of the foamy disinfectant sprays, wait a few minutes, then sweep. I clean targets and pads after every class. A good idea is to have a costco size hand sanitizer around for everyone to use. I highly encourage those who are sick to either stay home, or come and only watch..so they can still learn something. As instructors, it is hard to stay healthy with a bunch of sickly sneezing coughing students. One thing I do when a student joins, is to thouroughly explain personal hygene requirements: clean dobok, trimmed nails, proper etiquette when having a cold etc...this seems to help. Update on the parks & rec issue: If you remember back a few digests, a failing local TKD school's instructor got extremely upset when the city decided to have MA classes as part of the growing recreation program. They went to the chamber of commerce and complained, and then to a city council meeting to vent. I was asked to attend and deal with any issues the council had questions on. After arguing for an hour, the council decided to put the subject on their next agenda to further explore the issue. The other instructor showed up wearing her master dobok. She complained that the city was running a business, that the city was trying to put them out of business, that the city was supporting my business, and that the city had no reason to offer classes as there simply is not enough people to support it. She claimed unfair competition. She demanded my class roster to view the names of my students believing that I had stolen them from her school. She even crank called me, but forgot about the invention of caller ID. Not very courteous or professional of her...while she lied about who she was and what she wanted. I found it ridiculous. None of my students had ever taken a class from the other school. I teach for free...thus, no business. The other school has been around for 3 years and only has 24 students. In 2 months, I have 12. I found 31 other MA schools within 15 minutes of our small city. I think the other school should be more worried about competition from those 31 schools instead of the city program. Most cities around have some sort of parks & rec program, offering several styles of MA. Several commercial schools in the area hold the city P&R program at their own school. Monday night the city council decided to continue to offer the MA program to the community. Now I can get back to training instead of dealing with political problems and whining instructors with no marketing ability. Thanks for the opportunity to vent!!! -- Mark Gajdostik TNT-Martial Arts 503-789-1356 --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Wallace, John" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] bad kick - good kick Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 09:29:38 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Dakin: Why don't you like the porkchop pads? I recently discovered them, and my wife is finally willing to hold a pad for me for round, hook and crescent kicks. -JW -----Original Message----- From: Burdick, Dakin R [mailto:burdickd@indiana.edu] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 5:17 AM KICKS I DON'T LIKE: Air kicks for speed or power (includes kicking porkchop pads) Kicking high Breaking Air kicking for twenty minutes --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.459 / Virus Database: 258 - Release Date: 2/25/2003 --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "J.R. West" To: Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 12:57:50 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Grits Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I can't remember, should we bring any weapons/sparring gear/grits? > Thanks Ya'll. > YITMA > Charlie V. Any weapons will be provided, no sparring gear will be needed, and you can pick fresh grits right off the grits tree out back...JRW --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 13:13:37 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Authorization_Question_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Piotr: ".....There are also some problems, for example there is (almost) no way of obtaining an instructors license for some new style, and I don`t mean "newly developed", but simply "the one that wasn`t practiced here before". You can`t have at the moment an (official) license as Hapkido instructor, TSD instructor, KSW instructor. Although there are some HKD schools in Poland, the Education & Sports Ministry, which is responible for licensing, doesn`t know such a style, and it`s a long way to Tipperary... oops, to a recognition of a new style here......" How is the matter handled should a recognized ("licensed") art bring in an "unlicensed" art for something temporary like a seminar? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 14:13:20 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Craig "Peace Man" Stovall's philosphy Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Craig, Your posts crack me up!!! You have such a way with words. Your message is right on target. Danny Dunn --__--__-- Message: 6 From: To: Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 10:18:26 -1000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Civil Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Here's part of a letter to the editor that was published in Aikido Today Magazine. I was responding to their comments in a previous issue. "ATM's editors were entirely correct, however, about the difference in philosophy [between Aikido and Hapkido]. Hapkidoists tend to run left of center, and we sometimes joke about the Korean philosophy of killing an enemy today so that we won't have to deal with him tomorrow! In actual practice, we would rather prevent an altercation or restrain an attacker than harm him. If I have no choice, however, I will kill without malice and with the same consideration as a jungle animal that quickly snaps the neck of its prey. I will grieve later on for what I was forced to become." In another issue there was a funny story from a person who witnessed an altercation between a gang member and a grocery store customer. Apparently, the customer looked at the gang member and that set him off. Gang member followed the customer out to the parking lot. Customer told him that he didn't want to fight but the gang member pushed him. When he came at him again, the customer deflected his blows, grabbed the gang member's eyebrow rings with both hands, ripping them out. Screaming and bleeding, the gang member then received a finshing punch to the head! The story was about being careful what you wear! Randall Sexton www.LaughingHara.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Ali Alnasser" To: Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 05:27:17 +0900 (KST) Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Intellect, Intelligence, and Survival Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > To some people it does matter. I was taught this during my first day of training. I think people are more concerned with with physcial aspect of training when your spiritual training is equally or more important. In real training, mind follows the body. When you get your body to move, your mind will begin to understand what is happening and you will know for yourself what you are doing. Physical training is always the first step towards spiritual training - this is what must be clear and always kept in mind. In reality, they are one and the same. In traditional training, spiritual or intellectual training always begins with purely physical training. This is where many of us misunderstand this process. This physical training is designed to develop our mental and spiritual sides, so physical training is not simply physical training but the first step to developing ourselves spiritually. In Eastern dsiciplines, both the mind and body must be developed, educated and nurtured properly. We don't really control the body through the mind however, we develop the mind through the body. Once both the mind and body are developed, we will no longer see the need to use more force "over kill" than called for. This is the highest level of training one has to master. I, myself, am still working very hard on obtaining this level of training. Lastly, once we learn how to injure the body, we must then learn how to heal the body from injuries. [TABLE NOT SHOWN] [TABLE NOT SHOWN][TABLE NOT SHOWN][IMAGE] --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Patrick L" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 12:34:19 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Gentle Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ali Alnasser, First, I submit that is is NOT "easy" to break a bone using twists or locks. IMHO even tearing muscle, ligaments and tendons is not "easy". Sometimes even just inflicting pain, using twists and locks, is a chore (depending on the individual). Good technique, form, practice, and a little bad luck ,for the receipient, make all of it possible. Second, if I might paraphrase with apologies to the writer whose book and name I have forgotten; "It isn't how many bones your break, but rather how you manipulate the first one, that leads to cooperation." Getting in the WAY, Patrick >I've always been told in Hapkido you shouldn't break your opponents bone >but rather apply enough pain to control your opponent. IMHO, I think its >easier to break someones wrist, joint, etc. but its harder to control >yourself from not breaking their bone. This in my opinion, is what makes >someone a wondeful martial artist.< _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "bob smith" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 14:39:05 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Bacteria & Bleach Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net One more entry on the bugs....I promise. It appears this is and should be a real concern about cleaning the mats, bags, gloves, etc. I orginally wrote about the how easy it is to clean and sanitize with bleach and water (two ounces to a gallon). I know it smells and can deteriorate the mats. However, has anyone seen a nasty case of impetigo (Staph infection)it is not pretty and highly contagious. As a Technical Sales Rep for Microbiology equipment I can assure you the bleach is effective and simple. I have sold systems to the milatary & government for Anthrax testing and they use good old bleach to kill the bugs on equipment. Takes only minutes to apply and dirt cheap! The other alternative is 70% ethanol solution, but why waste good booze. PS. To anybody who spends that much time with their face in/on the mat, find another sparring partner. Ha Ha. Bob Smith The TKD Smith Family _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 15:59:44 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] going south!! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just a few days till we head off to the warm south! It will be nice to get away from the snow! Master Timmerman is driving from Canada today, but we (my wife, students and I) are flying out of the Cincinnati airport and getting there around noon Friday. I have several meetings scheduled again as I did last year. So, when we get together for the DD picture, come get me this time! :) I will be holding Ray hostage! As always, I look forward to seeing everyone. If we haven't met, make sure you say 'howdy' (remember I am a native Texan), even if you are only a lurker on the DD. I will be teaching Jeepangesul (cane techniques) this year. Jere R. Hilland www.hapkidoselfdefense.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 21:56:08 +0100 From: "K. Barends" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: civilized hapkido (last time) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > 4. .... > If I get this guy to the ground, do I > sit on him while I try to tell my 2 year-old how to re-assemble the > shattered cell phone, and call 911? To increase your changes of getting him to the ground, you better know how to properly handle him. That is, as I told before, by knowing (and not only knowing, it has to become second nature) your body mechanics, and not by thinking that one lousy distraction kick will actually losen up the coked up guy, you described, so you can apply a joint breaking(!) technique. If you kick him right, you won't be needing the joint breaking technique. If you're gonna use the joint breaking technique, you shouldn't be needing a kick. > Craig "I Reserve Compassion for the Deserving" Stovall Klaas "treat other the way you want to be treated" Barends -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Intellect, Intelligence, and Survival To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 13:02:12 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > When survival is on the line...survival is all that matters. This is a highly important point. Many/some people train with their old school yard fights in mind. Beating up on the new kid on the block or being that new kid. I define those as 'sport fights'. If that is one's reason for training, fine, no problem. However many others don't plan on getting in any more school yard fights. Any fight they find themselves in will most likely be an interpersonal encounter of highly serious consequences, i.e. someone trying to kill or seriously harm them or a loved one or friend. In which case, please refer back to line #1 as well as the three 'em principles of HKD... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Art VanVranken" To: Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 16:14:18 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] NYS Licensing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net According to our Master, they have been trying this for years, to probably deaf ears. Like someone else said, New York cant even pass a budget on time. --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 14:00:21 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Grits with weapons Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> I have once or twice found myself having my students do maybe 4 kicks all night long as many ways as possible, example.. Stationary Side kick ( work on kick ) Side kick from front stance ( work on shifting and balance ) back leg side kick/spin thrust kick/spin side kick (work on closing distance ) jump side kick ( for the kids :D and the heart) falling side kick/laying side kick ( work on defending from ground) Ten each leg or so. Maybe even combo's? (side kick back hand blah blah blah, side kick ridgehand blah blah blah, side kick inside middle block blah blah blah, etc). Just curious as to what ya would think. JR WEST: I can't remember, should we bring any weapons/sparring gear/grits? <> Charlie, First I like your progressive drills idea. It will give your advanced students a good way to get lots of repatition on one or two basic motions, and see the basics in even advanced techniques. I do the same thing often in our dojang. With my youth class I do standing side kick, back kick for low ranks and spin back for high ranks, then both knees to chest jumps, then front leg jump side, then jump spin back, then roll out the mat and do flying side over the mat which leads nicely into falling and rolling drills. It's a lot of fun, they all sleep good that night, and after all those side/back kicks some of them even have their toes down and a decent looking blade by the end of class:-) Second, Jackson will have all the grits you could ask for :-) I think Master Terry is teaching a knife techniques section and mentioned bringing a practice knife if you have one... Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 15 From: Dingodog1@webtv.net (Donald Pillow) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 17:30:41 -0500 (EST) To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Grandmaster Gedo Chang Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello y'all, I am writing to inquire if anyone can respond with info concerning Grandmaster Gedo Chang. I know from other websites that he had a school in Illinois and has students with their own school websites. I have subscribed to the digest for a few months and have never seen anyone refer to him in any context. Until recently I was a student of his student, Mr. Kevin Wilbourn who is an excellent Hapkido instructor. Our school has closed for now, though hopefully it will resume functioning and if any former students of Charlotte Hapkido Academy read this please respond with any news of progress in this regard. Thanks. --__--__-- Message: 16 From: "Braeswood Martial Arts" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] going south!! Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 17:27:53 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Jere, (Kwan Jang) It will be great to be a part of that picture this year. BTW Native Texan myself (native Houstonian actually) See you in a couple of days, travel safely. Sincerely, Kat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 2:59 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] going south!! > Just a few days till we head off to the warm south! It will be nice to get > away from the snow! Master Timmerman is driving from Canada today, but we > (my wife, students and I) are flying out of the Cincinnati airport and > getting there around noon Friday. I have several meetings scheduled again as > I did last year. So, when we get together for the DD picture, come get me > this time! :) I will be holding Ray hostage! As always, I look forward to > seeing everyone. If we haven't met, make sure you say 'howdy' (remember I am > a native Texan), even if you are only a lurker on the DD. I will be teaching > Jeepangesul (cane techniques) this year. Jere R. Hilland > www.hapkidoselfdefense.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 17 Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 15:32:19 -0800 (PST) From: Oludipe Tolulope To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: 200-300 kicks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In the dojang I started TKD as a begginer, after general warm-ups we do 30kicks of the 4 basic kicks each leg from Ap, through Dolyo, Yup, Nerhyo chagi: 30x4x2=240. By 6th keup, we do the same kicks as above but include kicking with leading leg on the spot or in schuffle. 240+ 240=480. Then we do the day's programme. By 3rd keup we are into the more advanced kicks, 30kicks each leg (4fear of mispelling I'll use plain english, won't mind someone translating though); the hook kick, spin hook kick, Dui chagi, Dui Yup chagi. 480+(30x2x5)=780 before sparing We do more but I refuse to bore you. Remember these do not include hand techniques need not say all I went through to get recommended for Blackbelt Timi D. 2Dan TKD. Nigeria. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --__--__-- Message: 18 From: "Warrior Spirit Martial Arts" To: Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 15:41:58 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Intellect, Intelligence, and Survival Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Craig "Don't get me started" Stoval You certainly have a way with words, Keep up the good work! Travis Warrior Spirit --__--__-- Message: 19 From: "Eric Walker" To: Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 18:36:47 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Judged by twelve.... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Craig "I Reserve Compassion for the Deserving" Stovall--- I certainly couldn't have said it better. Master Toth has been known to say"...better to be judged by twelve than carried by six..." I believe there is a concept in the Japanese tradition in which the person that has decided to commit a heinous act of violence on someone else has basically chosen suicide, and that the person that is defending themselves becomes the vessel or weapon through which the suicide takes place....does anyone know what this concept is called? Something or the other "jinto"... Eric " I Never Killed Anyone" Walker --__--__-- Message: 20 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 18:04:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] list slow ?? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The list may be a bit slow while I'll down south at the 18th International Shindig. I'll try to keep things flowing, and hopefully the list too... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 21 Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 21:54:57 -0600 From: Richard Zaruba To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Kicking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello everyone, I have an interesting question for everyone since the topic of kicking came up. How many kicks do you expect from your beginners, intermediate and advanced students? I'll start this out by answering myself and saying that I expect more progressively at each rank for all skills tested. What I expect from my students for kicking is simple: White to yellow 120 good kicks, yellow to blue 240 good kicks, blue to red 360 good kicks, red to brown 480 good kicks, brown to black brown 600 good kicks, black brown to 1st black 720 good kicks, 1st to 2nd black 1440. These are what I want my students working for at each level, I also expected an increased level of difficulty and skill in the kicking with the increase in level. Forms I teach the same way one form per level to be done to the four directions students start at four good forms and add four more forms at each rank. I would also like to know how everyone trains their students for kicking, i.e. All kicks low on heavy bags , etc.? I train my students alternating air kicks one class and equipment kicks the next. We kick at all heights from the shin to the head for training. Equipment we use includes balloons, "pork chop" pads, hand targets, muay thai pads, air shields, and heavy bags as well as hogu drills. Any comments and feedback is welcome and invited. I'm always looking for a different perspective and new training ideas. Rich ____________________________________________________________________________ Richard Zaruba, Head Instructor Kuk Sool Won: Family Martial Arts Center 1395A South Columbia Road P.M.B. 333 Grand Forks, ND 58201 Http://www.ksw-nd.com/ richard@ksw-nd.com Sch: (701) 594-6290 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustutkd1@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest