Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 03:01:49 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #133 - 20 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Flags and Bowing (Emactkd@aol.com) 2. Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #129 - msg 15 Salute (Raymond Navarro) 3. taekwondo and taekyon movie clips (Douglas Nascimento) 4. Re: taekwondo and taekyon movie clips (Ray Terry) 5. Re: Superman (Ray Terry) 6. Naihanchi Redux? (Dennis McHenry) 7. Welcome Amed (Dennis McHenry) 8. HKD seminar in Poland ? (Ray Terry) 9. Bar Fights and Self Defense (bob smith) 10. Videos (SEXTONR003@hawaii.rr.com) 11. Re: Bar Fight Analysis (Ray Terry) 12. Patches... (J Thomas Howard) 13. Bowing to flags (Andrew Pratt) 14. Sad, yet funny (Ray Terry) 15. Re: Bowing to flags (Ray Terry) 16. Re: Chris from CT - send T-shirt info! (Chris LaCava) 17. Welcome aboard! (Chris LaCava) 18. fight (Dr. Daryl Covington) 19. How martial artists deal with guns (DrgnSlyr5@aol.com) 20. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_First_time---?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Emactkd@aol.com Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 01:10:16 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Flags and Bowing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I agree with Ray (quelle surprise!). The flags are on the same wall and when lined up we bow forward. However when we enter and leave the dojang, it so happens that you can't see the South Korean flag from the door, and we bow to the American flag. I continue to hang the South Korean flag because that is how I was taught, but I really am not any more concerned about current politics in Korea than the current politics in any other political hot spot with nuclear weapons. I just wish we quit playing the South Korean national anthem. Our martial art does not depend on the current South Korean government, nor are we recognized as honorary Korean citizens. If they play it at international events, fine, but for a little tournament in Shreveport? Rick Foley --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 06:00:22 -0800 (PST) From: Raymond Navarro To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #129 - msg 15 Salute Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To Denise, Ray and all be blessed before anything else. I am Ramon Navarro a HapKiDo SabomNim from the country of Panama. I have Taek Kwon Do (5th Dan)and Tang Soo Do (3rd Dan)but am 4th Dan and been teaching HapKiDo now 26 years. I have allways been interested in Korean terminology; this is what I learned and could be wrong on the spelin but here it is 'Yoboseyo' is hello mainly for answering the phone ! When salute to the Flag if say ?KukKi BaeRe KyungNet is to KukKi = Korean Flag ; BaeRe = Face the... ; KyungNet = Bow ! So the hole thing would translate too 'Face the Korean Flag and Bow'. Then the frasing : 'KukKi Da Baere KyungNet' would be something like 'Face and look at the Korean Flag and Bow'. Also when saying 'ChaRyot Title Kay KyungNet' would be (with the title/SabomNim) 'ChaRyot SabomNim Kay KyungNet' would be 'Look at SabomNim and Bow' This are the basics to the meaning in translation ! You all be well. HAP Ramon Navarro HapKiDo SabomNim SongMooKwan HapKiDo Panama Panama Republic of Panama > 15. Re: Salute (Denise Lee) >Message: 15 >From: "Denise Lee" >To: >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Salute >Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 22:21:37 -0500 >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >> Does anyone know the Korean term for "salute"?? > >Hi James, >In my experience, the term for salute, salutation, and bow is "kyongnye" >as in: "Sabom Nim kay kyongnye." Not too sure what the "kay" indicates, >though. > >For a salute to a flag, we say "Kuk-gi bay ray" but that "bay ray" >romanization hasn't been of much help to me in finding the exact >translation. Yet, "salute the flags" is what we do at that command. > >I hope this helps- >Denise _____________________________________________________________ Get a web-based email for life now ---> http://mail.hapkidokr.org _____________________________________________________________ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you@yourchoice.com w/No Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Douglas Nascimento" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 11:01:52 -0300 Subject: [The_Dojang] taekwondo and taekyon movie clips Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I found about ten taekwondo movie in the progam IMesh (that can be found in www.download.com )and others   here http://mapage.noos.fr/taekwon/videos/poomse/  http://www.taekwondonow.hpg.ig.com.br/zip/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN Hotmail, o maior webmail do Brasil. Faça o seu agora. with MSN 8. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] taekwondo and taekyon movie clips To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 06:59:18 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Some movie clips available in the archives of martialartsresource.com are: HookDef.mov KickDef.mov Knife1.mov Punch.mov PunchDef2.mov Sinewave.mov* Sinewave.mov.zip Taekkyon.mov Taekkyon.mov.zip The first five are HKD clips from Master Geoff "call me Jay" Booth, of Downunder Hapkido. Sinewave.mov is a short clip showing the ITF sinewave movement. Taekkyon.mov is a short clip showing a bit of Taekkyon. All provided with permission. ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com then go to pub/the_dojang. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 08:00:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Superman Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > ... Master West asked me the next day if > I had receieved the red boots and cape yet, I had to > tell him that I had not. He said not to worry, he had > not either. There was a funny side effect though, I had > this uncontrolable urge to go around singing "Here I > come to save the day" but that passed after a few days, > much to the delight of Rosemary. You realize, of course, that was Mighty Mouse's song, not Superman's. Umm, perhaps that fits afterall... :-O Ray "Now I'm in real trouble" Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 19:03:17 GMT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Dennis McHenry Subject: [The_Dojang] Naihanchi Redux? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Bruce, <> I do both. For those who know all 3, I like to have them practice it as one single form. In fact, I required Mindy to perform it as one hyung during her 3rd Dan test. I believe Funakoshi loved doing it as one form and called it Naihanchi-O. For lack of a better term, that's what I call it when I perform it as such. Mac Master Dennis P. McHenry Houston, Texas USA E-Mail: D.McHenry@juno.com http://McHenry.homeip.net/TangSooDo TangSooDo Director, USKMAF ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 19:04:34 GMT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Dennis McHenry Subject: [The_Dojang] Welcome Amed Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Welcome to the list Amed. I look forward to your contributions. Mac Master Dennis P. McHenry Houston, Texas USA E-Mail: D.McHenry@juno.com http://McHenry.homeip.net/TangSooDo TangSooDo Director, USKMAF ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 11:46:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] HKD seminar in Poland ? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Piotr... Gm Ji has probably just wrapped up teaching a Sin Moo Hapkido seminar there in Poland. Just wondering if you or any of your friends attended, and hopefully survived, the seminar..?? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "bob smith" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 14:09:42 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Bar Fights and Self Defense Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Having read Ken's story I can relate. In my College days I worked as a bartender and bouncer at NIU in the local Greek system bar for five years. Had every kind of person you can imagine football players, rugby, frat and local red necks. I studied karate at the time and and was a heavy into the weights (lots of muscle). What I learned... 1) People who are drinking are dangerous. They will do things drunk they would not do sober. 2) People who drink do not always feel the immediate pain as it is inflicted. 3) Never argue with a drunk even with your martial arts skills. If attacked go for the "kill" to put them down quickly. Go for the knee, groin, eye, throat. 99% of all the fights I witnessed and was forced to jump in were thankfully over in less than two minutes including the scrums. ALWAYS HAVE A FRIEND OR EMPLOYEE watch you to your car. I have seen more fight winners get jumped in the parking then I can count. Do not be embarrased to tell the bartender, bouncer, etc. somebody is causing trouble. We know the losers and are looking for a good reason to throw them out anyways. My two cents..... Bob Smith The TKD Smith Family _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus --__--__-- Message: 10 From: To: Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 10:12:32 -1000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Videos Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks Master Mac for adding the HKD Hyungs on your site. However, Master Buresse's video either didn't load completely or he ran out of steam at about 52 seconds! I'd also like to get more info on the development of these forms from Masters Allison and Buresse. Master Buresse, any more videos in the works? Randall Sexton www.LaughingHara.com "If I live in Hawaii, where do I vacation?" --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 12:33:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Bar Fight Analysis Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > ... > This long haired guy, tough looking, who is playing > pool tells me to move from where I am sitting so he can > get a shot. > ... > So, now this long haired meatball starts actually > walking over to my table clear across the room. > ... > I watch this mental midget with the long hair (like > this is supposed to make him a bad ass) approaching my > table clear across the bar and lounge. > ... > I pushed him into the table where about 5 couples were > sitting. Continually punching this long haired mother > in the face and stomach. Then when he tried to grab me > I gave him a groin shot with my leg. Moral of story... Don't be a long haired guy around Big Ken. :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 12 To: "the_dojang" Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 16:31:52 -0600 (CST) From: thomcat@binary.net (J Thomas Howard) Subject: [The_Dojang] Patches... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > To All- > Could whoever sent that sight oh so long ago on the Internet that does > patches cheap, could you please do it again. > Thx. > Jeff I'm not sure if you meant me, but awhile back I posted that this site: http://www.emblem-badge.com/index.html does good work for an excellent price. Make sure you are precise on the exact measurements of your patch, send them a good scan of it, and they'll do a good job. Which reminds me, I owe Master Booth one of my association patches... Thomas ----------------- Nebraska Hapkido Association hapkido@mindspring.com "If you aren't modeling what you are teaching, then you are teaching something else." --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Andrew Pratt" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:09:19 +0900 Subject: [The_Dojang] Bowing to flags Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, Anthony, John W., and others have been discussing bowing to flags. Ray asked whether kukki just means flag. I believe this is true but given the way the Korean language works the implication is that it is referring to the Korean flag first and foremost (For instance, there is a phrase in Korean 'uri nara' which literally means 'our country' and I always cause Koreans to have a double-take because I use it to refer to the UK and not Korea). John W. contributed: > From: "John Wallace" Our dojang had the US, California, South Korean, and Japanese flags on the wall (we're a Danzan-ryu jujutsu dojo as well). Since 9/11, only the US and California flags have been displayed for bowing to. I think our master instructor had the same thought as you Mr. Boyd, and realized that bowing to a foreign flag, however friendly the relations between the countries, wasn't something he wanted to perpetuate. Personally, I'm of two minds on the subject - I like acknowledging the Eastern cultures that gave birth to the arts I study; on the other hand, we can do that in other ways than by bowing to the nationalistic symbols of the modern countries where those cultures reside. < As a point of reference, I practise Aikido in Korea and yet although we have the Korean flag and sometimes a picture of the founder of Aikido, I have yet to see the Japanese flag on the wall (and that's true for the UK too even at dojos with a Japanese instructor). Personally, I have always found it odd to be required to put my hand on my heart and bow to a piece of painted cloth.... Regards, Andrew --__--__-- Message: 14 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 17:12:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Sad, yet funny Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I thought folks would find this sad, yet funny... Mastering Hapkido Author: Grand Master Richard Hackworth Language: English Running time: 60+ minutes Published: November 2002 Videostandard: NTSC Medium: VHS Price: $49 each or $390 set A complete set of VHS videos covering all rank requirements from 9th Geup to 1st Dan are completed in English. The set has been reviewed and approved by the Executive Board of Directors for the Korea Hapkido Federation. The 10 Tape set features GrandMaster Richard Hackworth and features video clips of Hapkido Masters from around the world! --__--__-- Message: 15 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Bowing to flags To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 17:17:11 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > As a point of reference, I practise Aikido in Korea and yet although we have > the Korean flag and sometimes a picture of the founder of Aikido, I have yet > to see the Japanese flag on the wall (and that's true for the UK too even at > dojos with a Japanese instructor). It seems to depend greatly on what you get used to. Personally, I always found the shrine in Aikido dojos and having to prostrate oneself to it before and after class very strange. > Personally, I have always found it odd to be required to put my hand on my > heart and bow to a piece of painted cloth.... Even the Union Jack? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 16 From: "Chris LaCava" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 20:43:30 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Chris from CT - send T-shirt info! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Master Mac. It was great meeting you and your daughter also. I have been having some difficulties with my computer, but now it seems to be up and running. Keep your fingers crossed! :) I will get a picture scanned in of the shirt and post it on my site. Yeah, I love that shirt. Take care Chris "from CT" LaCava's Martial Arts Westport, CT. http://lmaa.bravepages.com Online Store- http://www.cafepress.com/hapkidogear _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 17 From: "Chris LaCava" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 20:47:33 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Welcome aboard! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sorry I haven't posted sooner, but a big hello to Dave, Robin, Amed and I appologize if I missed anyone. Darn computer is making me back-track. Hey Amed, You get around bro. ;) Take care. Chris "from CT" LaCava's Martial Arts Westport, CT. http://lmaa.bravepages.com Online Store- http://www.cafepress.com/hapkidogear _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail --__--__-- Message: 18 Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 18:27:13 -0800 (PST) From: "Dr. Daryl Covington" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] fight Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net .. and therefore you initiated the fight. In court, you loose, pay the fine, or go to jail. Next time, with all the time you seemed to have had, perhaps the best thing to do would be to get up and move. Seems someone else in this story had something to prove. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online --__--__-- Message: 19 From: DrgnSlyr5@aol.com Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 21:47:07 EST To: DrgnSlyr5@aol.com Subject: [The_Dojang] How martial artists deal with guns Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A short discussion of how different styles deal with guns: Karate: You shoot yourself in the foot. Taekwondo: You shoot yourself in the foot, which is located 6 ft. above ground level at that time. Judo: You shoot a softball at your foot. This is so much fun that you take it into your daily training routine. After a Japanese term is found it is incorporated into the curriculum at blue belt level. Hapkido: You try to shoot yourself in the foot while performing an elegant circular movement. You will get hurt in any case. The chance of getting a gunshot wound is about 50%, thus being equal to the chance of spraining your joints. Wing Tsun (Leung Ting): You hear that this technique belongs to an advanced part of the curriculum. You spend the rest of your life with expensive seminars that are supposed to prepare you for the aforementioned part. Wing Chun (William Cheung): You shoot yourself in the foot. Nobody has heard the shot and no wounds are visible which is exactly your intention. There will be no indicators of an injury until the next two weeks have passed because this is a Dim Mak technique. Ving Tsun (Wong): You shoot yourself in the foot. Because of your extremely stable low stance the bullet penetrates your calf, your knee and your shin. You fall on your face and lose your teeth. For the rest of your life you show your injuries as evidences of your style's efficacy. Tai Chi: You practice to draw and shoot in one single fluid movement. After years of constant training you become one with your weapon but you have forgotten what to do with it. Iaido: You practice to draw and shoot in one single fluid movement. You then spend the rest of your life imagining how the sound of a shot that is heard by nobody differs from the sound of a one-handed hand-clapping (during the peach harvest in Kyoto). Shaolin Kung Fu: You develop 108 different movements to draw the weapon together with 108 corresponding stances. However, you refrain from the actual shooting for religious reasons. Savate/Boxe Francaise: You can shoot yourself in the foot only wearing approved gear. You may shoot yourself in the hand if you have shot yourself in the foot twice already. The gun must have a classical French name and be manufactured by an approved French supplier. BJJ: First you build an octagonal cage. There you shoot yourself in the foot in front of a paying audience. You offer a prize to anybody who can shoot bigger holes in more feet with fewer bullets. Aikido: You miss your foot by about 40 cm. You then spend the rest of your life trying to change the position of your hand while pressing the trigger so that the bullet describes a circular path that ends up in your foot. Boxing: During training you have difficulties manipulating the trigger while wearing gloves. The shooting is postponed 6 times because of injuries and finally canceled because the pistol doesn't belong to any major boxing federation. Krav Maga: You shoot off every single toe with a sub-machine gun. Then you switch to automatic fire and separate both feet from the legs with carefully aimed bursts. To make sure they're really gone you jump on top of an Arabian anti-personnel mine. Capoeira: You try to shoot yourself in the foot but miss on the first try. After the 40th reload you realize that you didn't actually learn a martial art and shoot yourself in the head. Iron Palm kung fu: You soon realize that you won't be able to shoot yourself daily in the leg without proper training. You spend the rest of your life on a quest make your leg bulletproof by hitting it with various objects. Ryukyu Kempo: You carefully pick a spot and shoot yourself once in the leg. Your left ear muscles are instantly paralyzed. You're happy because the technique worked exactly as you thought it would, and it's obviously superior to Karate leg-shooting technique. American Kenpo: You attempt to shoot yourself in the foot. An 8th degree blackbelt stops you saying that's not the way GM parker would have done it. He attempts to show you the way when another 8th+ blackbelt comes and up and tells the first one he isn't doing it way GM parker would have done it either. An argument ensues and 15 other 8th+ blackbelts come over and get involved. End result nobody gets shot in the foot JKD: You "trap" the bullet with your leg. Muay Thai: Only pansies shoot themselves in the foot. Real men shoot themselves in the knee or elbow. Ninjutsu: Maybe you shot yourself in the foot, maybe you didn't. Anyway, no one saw anything. --__--__-- Message: 20 Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 20:49:21 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_First_time---?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ken: "..... People will not help you in the situation, they will just watch in shock......" I have seen such a mistake made and can't thank you enough for putting it into words for everyone to see. On those occasions when I have witnessed this, Mr. Clean-Cut-All-American-Boy freezes in shock as they seem not to believe what is happening is really going down. As you say, there is a surreal quality to the experience and I think what is happening is the person is trying to correlate what is happening with a reasonable explanation and, of course, there simply is no way this will happen. What is going down is beyond reason and I trust that this is where one depends on repeated training to take over for a mind that can't make sense out of what is happening. Its the same as any other combat situation. I hope others can benefit from your experience and have printed-off your list of "after-action" thoughts. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustutkd1@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest