Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 10:30:05 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #152 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Mr. Cyrus' response (FirstPe315@aol.com) 2. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_MYTBTJ_Thoughts?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 3. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Buddhas'_Birthday_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 4. Re: Titan Games (Jye nigma) 5. shameless plug (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 6. Re: Stupid observation regarding kwan name (John Johnson) 7. Original Jidokwan forms and Kuk Mu Form (J T) 8. re: the hunted movie (scottm@scubadiving.com) 9. Re: Buddha's B-Day (ABurrese@aol.com) 10. RE: Christianity in Korea (Gregory Giddins) 11. RE: Religion in Korea (Dr. Daryl Covington) 12. For Greg G. (Charles Richards) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: FirstPe315@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:51:31 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Mr. Cyrus' response Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thank you for your response Master Cyrus. I too have heard that analogy but the connection with centrifugal force is interesting. Thanks again. Jeff In a message dated 3/31/2003 3:12:02 AM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > As far as I know, and according to GM James Garrison of WOMAF, "Sun Ba Yak" > refers to the application and use of centrifugal force. It can be likened > to > a blade of straw caught up in a cyclone and later found imbeded in a tree > trunk. Weather the term is a legitimate use of the Korean language or not, > what I have explained evokes a powerful image of the use of force. Further, > > it captures several concepts and principles we all hold out as key in the > delivery of martial art skills. I hope that this helps. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:43:24 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_MYTBTJ_Thoughts?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Chaney: I think I can appreciate your position in your post and I tend to agree with pretty much most of what you wrote. I see the same things but I tend to value them a bit differently. Regarding the reconstruction aspects of KMA, I think you are probably dead- on. As a matter of fact I can't think of any martial traditions which didn't change or vary at least a bit with each passing generation, and that includes those much-touted Japanese sword traditions. And most certainly if a person has a particular background that also will influence how they interpret-- and express--- what they study. And now, let me take you back a couple of years to when I first joined this forum. Some of the very first posts I read on the DD espoused the position that Korea had NO martial traditions as all had been lost under Neo-Confucian regimes. The person proceeded to "remind" us that Korea ONLY had martial traditions because they had gotten them all from Japan. In other words, if it hadn't been for the Japanese Occupation, the Korean would have had no martial traditions. Sorry, but I had a real problem there and I have been blabbing along ever since. (I'll even bet there are some on this list that would like to find that kid and "thank" him for saddling DD with a resident history curmudgeon.) So now we have a document, the MYTBTJ, (among others such as THE BOOK OF FIVE CEREMONIES)which give us insight into the nature of what Koreans thought were important skills to know in combat. Certainly they borrowed heavily from the Chinese and Japanese culture, and what they constructed has obvious Chinese and Japanese features. However, their motives for selecting what they did, organizing the way that they did and using it the way that they did remain, and the biomechanics, in and of themselves, are still sound. I also agree with you about the lanuage, terminology and so forth. I am currently working out the two-man hyung found in the WAE GUEM chapter of this book and it is long, slow, arduous work which finds us only to step 44 of 76 steps. I will also admit that the result I have right now is NOT identical to the video tapes of the same hyung from Turtle Press. I will draw the line at characterizing what I am doing, however, as "creative" thinking. Instead I consider the manual as a set of lines within which I dutifully attempt to "color". I will also admit that there are not a few problems with the book itself. For instance the sword forms are intended to be executed with swords of various architecture, weight and length, yet all of the sword hyung seem to be illustrated with the same type of long-bladed sabre. Still, since the book itself indicates that its material was drawn from over 200 works spanning the 15th to the 18th century I would say this is still one heck of a resource. We certainly wouldn't want to abandon it because some variance crept in. Many much more modern hyung and kata have seen much greater variance in the relatively few years they have been around and people still use them. Probably the only other point that I would comment on is that idea about learning out of a book, and I think I can speak to this with some authority having written a few Hapkido books. I routinely hear people say the same thing over and over again-- "you can't learn MA from a book". OK. I will accept that. Now I need to understand why people are buying books, charts, video tapes and magazines? If you can't learn martial arts from a book or any other media other than a qualified teacher how come practitioners buy and collect these media? How come the Chinese, even centuries ago, organized notebooks which were passed on generation to generation? The fact is that TECHNIQUES can be collected from books, and the ART can only be learned over time. Most people are hobbyists who want to execute the TECHNIQUES so they can creat the impression that they have learned the ART. It DOES work the other way, though. People who are thoroughly invested in the art can pick up things from books that most people will just pass over. I think the MYTBTJ offer just such an opportunity for serious practitioners. In my own case I learn sword work from a highly qualified teacher, and the MYTBTJ gives me a chance to take what I know and see if I can solve a series of inter-related biomechanic problems. Whatever a person watching me might see, the result to my KMA education has been phenomenal. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:52:15 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Buddhas'_Birthday_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Alain: "....Would someone in Korea please tell me what day Buddha's Birthday is celebrated this year?...." Our Order celebrates April 9th. Is the same date equivalent to what they celebrate in Korea? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:49:34 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Titan Games To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net What ever happened to the Sabaki challenge? Is it still around? Jye --- "Stovall, Craig" wrote: > Whoever gave the programming heads up on the Titan > Games last > week...thanks!!! I caught both installments on > ESPN2 over the weekend, and > I thought the overall concept was pretty cool. I > wish they had shown a > little more of the Judo, and TKD...but, oh well. > > > > I also wish there had been time enough to explain > the rules for Karate. I > was like, "Ok, is this point fighting, or full > contact, or make it up as you > go along, or what?". > > > > I hope this program sets a new standard and opens a > few eyes to the fact > that with a little marketing, and > pizzazz...combative sports like wrestling, > Judo, TKD, etc. can provide a good source for sports > programming content. > ESPN's current daily format of twenty hours of > sports news/talk intertwined > with four hours of actual sports is growing a little > stale. I'm sorry but > I'd rather watch the Indonesian badminton > championships than hear Max > Kellerman's opinion on what Roy Jones Jr.'s next > move might be. > > > > Speaking of programming content...has anyone heard > the latest on the > proposed "all martial arts" channel? Is that still > a go? > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 20:58:58 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] shameless plug Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The Hapkido Self Defense Center will be hosting the quarterly get together in a few weeks for the Midwest USKMAF members and the traditional Korean martial arts community. WHAT: HAPKIDO WORKSHOP April 12, 2003 12:00 - 5:00 PM Cost: $10 donation requested OPEN TO ALL STYLES AND RANKS Ages 13 and up AREAS TO BE COVERED: Empty-Hand Techniques Weapons Techniques Breathing And Ki Techniques Philosophy Of Motion Advanced Techniques And Much More... WHERE: Hapkido Self Defense Center 1151 Stone Drive Harrison (Cincinnati), Ohio 513/202-0949 www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com INSTRUCTORS: Master Jere R. Hilland, 5th dan Master Instructor Anthony New, 4th dan (Fort Wayne) Mrs. Jennifer Hilland, 3rd dan Mr. Bruce Sims, 3rd dan (Chicago) All instructors are certified members of the United States Korean Martial Arts Federation. All weapons and breaking materials will be supplied by the HSDC. Please join us for the 11:00 AM yoga class preceding the Hapkido Workshop. Join us after the workshop at BW3's across the street for wings and more... Thank you for the space... JRH www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "John Johnson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Stupid observation regarding kwan name Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 10:25:52 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Mr Frazier, While I know your observation was made in good humor, it may help you understand what Jung Ki Kwan actually means. The word "jung" when written in a specific Chinese character means "spirit" or "rightous" and, of course, "Ki" is the Korean pronunciation of "chi" (internal energy). "Kwan" is the term reserved for school when referring to a martial arts school. So, literally the Jung Ki Kwan means "The school of chi spirit". It may also may help you to know that you're probably mispronouncing the word "jung". It is pronounced with a high back vowel to rhyme with our "sung", not the lower vowel sound you are probably using. Hope this helps. John A. Johnson Seoul, South Korea III, Taekwondo (Independent) III, Korea Hapkido Federation _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 06:11:35 -0800 (PST) From: J T To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Original Jidokwan forms and Kuk Mu Form Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A couple of questions for you history buffs. 1) Did Jidokwan study the Henian naka Pyoung Ahn, forms like Chungdokwan? Also, I when I read about the roots of Jidokwan I have seen that they are from Shudokan not Shotokan? Can anyone eloborate if this is the same thing with a different pronounciation or is Shudokan a totally seperate art? Also any info on this art? 2) In the book Korean Karate by Sun Duk Sung he performs a form called Kuk Mu. Do any Chungdokwan people know of this form and are there others like it like Kuk Mu 1, 2, 3, etc? Thanks for the help Jeremy __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://platinum.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 09:21:50 -0500 (EST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] re: the hunted movie Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net craig says "Did anybody see this movie? Did it live up to the hype in terms of the knife fighting action? Did Tommy Lee Jones manage to create a character that was appreciably different than the same one he's played in his last 15 movies?" personally, i thought the knife-fighting scenes were very realistic and good :) however, i have done only a little training in knife-fighting, so i'm not qualified to give a good opinion. master terry, if you have seen this movie, please give your opinion on the knife-fighting. by the way, i was in one of your classes on knife fighting at master west's hap ki do seminar last month & enjoyed it very much. --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 10:16:19 -0500 From: ABurrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Buddha's B-Day Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks for posting this year's date. The reason it is important to me has nothing really to do with the holiday, but more personal. Buddha's B-day is always celebrated the same day of the Lunar calandar each year. Koreans often celebrate their birthdays on the lunar dates as well. My wife's B-day happens to fall on the day after Buddha's B-day each year by the lunar calandar. So her B-day would be the 9th of May this year. Don't have time this morning to go into Craig's questions. :-) Thanks! Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Gregory Giddins To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:26:26 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Christianity in Korea Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Howdy Craig, This essay can probably address your question: "And speaking of JC...I'm sure Judeo-Christian thoughts/traditions have been introduced there (if nothing else through satellite TV). Has this taken root to any measurable degree?" History of Christianity in Korea: From Its Troubled Beginning to Its Contemporary Success Andrew E. Kim http://www.kimsoft.com/1997/xhist.htm It gives some solid info accurate up the the late 1980's, it doesn't address the Eastern religions, however. Greg G --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:32:06 -0800 (PST) From: "Dr. Daryl Covington" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Religion in Korea Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sir, Christianity has not just been "introduced" in Korea. Korea is home to the largest Christian Church in the World. Dr. Yonggi Cho founded and is pastor of the Yoido Full Gospel Church in Seoul, Korea that now has over 500,000 members. That's 1 church. There are many, many others. Dr. Yonggi Cho would be THE authority of religion in the regions of Korea. Id suggest looking for his contact information. Interestingly enough, the South Koreans send more Christian Missionaries to the United States than the United States sends there. Dr. Daryl R. Covington, Vice President, Karate for Christ International --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:51:01 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] For Greg G. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Greg, We had a thread going about stepping straight in on center punches versus "C-steps" and you commented that the image of yours truly stepping forward to punch didn't leave you a warm and fuzzy fealing :-) Well here's a story of how us Korean Korroty Guys play at olypmic TKD sparring. I went to the Georgia AAU qualifier as my second OS event. After getting kicked in the head for an 8 count and breaking my toe on my 25 year old competitor in Tennessee, I was happy to be in the 35+ division :-) In my first match I succeeded in severely bruising my right instep (to go with the broken toe on the left foot). Which left me wondering which leg to stand on, and which leg to kick with. In the match for finals I just took a page from GM Hodder's book and closed the distance and punched on this guy's upper hugu (ok and arms) until he threw in the towel. Not pretty but effective. So who needs all those fancy kicks anyway :-) Kudos to Master Henry for running 357 competitors through a fun filled day with no serious injuries that I remember. Now here's what's really funny for us Korroty guys. In the forms division the center referee approach me with the rule book and said "that was a beautiful form, but what did you say it was?" Kong Sang Koon is listed as 3rd dan and above for MDK styles, but none of the judges had ever seen it. Anyway they liked it enough for 1st place :-) Looking forward to seeing many of my AAU friends in Knoxville in July. Maybe I'll really put a snake in the grass and try Wansu in the forms division :-) Yours in Jung Do, Charles (Loves to punch) Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://platinum.yahoo.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustutkd1@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest